Rugby: All rugby discussion

[Baxterman]

Always good to see the AB's lose. With them Australia and Ireland out it will likely be a very nice winner this year, assuming Wales doesn't fluke their way to a win but that is hard to see.

 

[member 305909]

It's always good for any sport when long-standing champions are beaten and there's a change in the top.

 

[Fighter]

This is much different than Japan which only has players come over as professionals and have zero role in developing them as players.

All true but to put into context, if they were I don't even say world class players but at the very least very good players, they wouldn't choose to play for Japan. Point is they wouldn't make New Zealand first, second and even third team most probably so it doesn't exactly look like Japan "stole" anything from NZ, or Australia... or Fiji, Samoa, Tonga etc... They carved out a decent career in and for Japan, props to them.
As for Italy we used to have and still have quite a lot of players from different countries. In this case if I was Argentina I would be a bit upset about Dominguez, Parisse, Castrogiovanni and such because they could have been for sure first choices for them (can you imagine Castro and Parisse in the 2007 Argentina squad?), but other nationalities? Nope, they were leftovers who didn't even shine much for us which says something...

 

[Baxterman]

All true but to put into context, if they were I don't even say world class players but at the very least very good players, they wouldn't choose to play for Japan. Point is they wouldn't make New Zealand first, second and even third team most probably so it doesn't exactly look like Japan "stole" anything from NZ, or Australia... or Fiji, Samoa, Tonga etc... They carved out a decent career in and for Japan, props to them.
As for Italy we used to have and still have quite a lot of players from different countries. In this case if I was Argentina I would be a bit upset about Dominguez, Parisse, Castrogiovanni and such because they could have been for sure first choices for them (can you imagine Castro and Parisse in the 2007 Argentina squad?), but other nationalities? Nope, they were leftovers who didn't even shine much for us which says something...

I don't think they stole anything I was saying that Japan's rugby success is based on them having a professional league that pays well so guys are drawn there.

I am interested if they can parlay this into developing more of their own players being good rather than just complimentary players to the foreigners.

The majority of the other countries aren't relying on their high paying league to attract guys to play for their country. They have strong rugby cultures and a rugby playing base to draw from if the foreign born guys aren't there.

 

[Morozov]

An italian whose grandfather emigrated to SA and I've been there myself too. Lots of problems for sure but stop with the SA's bashing, it's not all hell just like NZ isn't paradise on earth, you're just livid the kiwis got schooled today despite being widly favoured to win it all (hence why the other guy said ABs chocked).

If there's a promising Tongan or Fijian or Samoan player in the making he'll be unlikely to remain in Tonga or Fiji or Samoa, he'll get picked up by either the ABs or the Wallabies because they are closer, have their own polynesian/melanesian communities as you said and most importantly because they give money and possibilities to the rest of the family that those little nations can only dream of, you know it, everybody knows it; in this there's also an outside chance for England (see Tuilagi, Vunipola etc), it's nothing new really so don't act so defensive on that. South Africa have a different mentality and approach, if anything the biggest problems for the Springboks is the interference by politics on the selection of players...

As for the Tri Nations in the 90s I don't know much yeah, but I pleaseantly recall that the dominating ABs with that juggernaut named Jonah Lomu got stuffed by the Bokke in the 1995 WC and SAF wasn't exactly at its best prior to that WC.

Wait wait, I DO WATCH the Bokke games at the Rugby Championship (was quite pleased this year) but the level of play is different to the WC, plain and simple. Do you really think the ABs gave their best in this year's edition? Nah...
Boks had an outstanding team back in the mid 2000s, won the 2007 WC, yet NZ won more often than not, that's my point.



False, at least four players on the WC squad were born outside NZ (Frizell, Reece, Tu'ungafasi, Laulala. I don't even wanna check others which were not selected for this WC but still are in the ABs group) and then went to NZ so my point stands and you're either ignorant about your team or blatantly full of ****.

All Black Nepo Laulala playing for more than himself at Rugby World Cup

""I grew up in Samoa, so a big part of my heart is still with my country," Laulala said."

It's pretty horrible really though. Like we have all the stats to know, and that's only what gets reported. And we can see all the broken race issues still happening. And we know the crime. We know the emigration rates, we know how you need to be careful what taxi you get in. There's a reason South Africans leave in droves.

We lost fair and square, we can't expect to win every time, we won two in a row (which nobody else has done). I'm disappointed, but I'm not livid about it. But I am sick of people making comments about my country when they don't know what they're talking about.

You literally have no idea about the demographics in New Zealand but keep talking like you do for some reason. For those that do leave the Islands, for Rugby, they're getting school scholarships, they aren't getting payouts to their family lol.

Yes you also have no idea about Tri Nations in the 90s either but commented on it like you did.

It isn't "at least 4" it is only 4, again you're just talking rubbish. And it was only 4 when Frizzell got called up late he wasn't in the original 30. Already posted that pages back. So yes, fact remains pretty much all of us our poly players are from NZ. This is a historic thing, as was your initial comment. Why keep talking when you don't know?

You post an article about Laulala feeling like he is representing NZ and Samoa like it means something here. Again Auckland is full of Polynesians and there's a huge number of people who love NZ and love their ancestry (including those who go back more than one generation in NZ). If you've met a Polynesian, or understand anything about Polynesian culture, you'd know that asking "where are you from" doesn't mean where do you live or where were you born, it means what is your origin, where are your family from, going back to your ancestors. That is a huge part of the culture, so you find most Polynesians attached to both and even if they're born in NZ still identify as or feel a strong affinity to their island roots. We literally host home games in Rugby League for Tonga in NZ and have Stadiums completely full of Tongan fans, most of whom are from NZ. It's a very melting pot city. Laulala moved here when he was like 14. It's not like every player we will ever have won't be born here. Especially in a country that people actually want to move to, there's a reason the one foreign born SA player is from Zimbabwe. But people like yourself who see Polynesian players and assume they aren't from here are simply ignorant of what NZ is like.

 

[Fighter]

I am interested if they can parlay this into developing more of their own players being good rather than just complimentary players to the foreigners.

This WC have been huge for the popularity of the sport in Japan but I fear that after this things will slow down, as it normally happens after a big event. Japan doesn't shine when it comes to be "strongly built" (aside of sumo rikishis), besides baseball is king there. Soccer fields are way less prevalent while being still popular (which put things in perspective). In six times I've been there, from 2015 to May of this year (so when they were already preparing for the event), be it big cities or countryside, I've never seen a rugby field (or even a rugby ball by chance). Sure I hope that rugby will remain a thing for Japan; I'm a bit skeptical but it might be because I've seen rugby development pretty much stagnating here in Italy and I know how difficult it is to develop talents when the talent pool is extra thin...

 

[Morozov]

This WC have been huge for the popularity of the sport in Japan but I fear that after this things will slow down, as it normally happens after a big event. Japan doesn't shine when it comes to be "strongly built" (aside of sumo rikishis), besides baseball is king there. Soccer fields are way less prevalent while being still popular (which put things in perspective). In six times I've been there, from 2015 to May of this year (so when they were already preparing for the event), be it big cities or countryside, I've never seen a rugby field (or even a rugby ball by chance). Sure I hope that rugby will remain a thing for Japan; I'm a bit skeptical but it might be because I've seen rugby development pretty much stagnating here in Italy and I know how difficult it is to develop talents when the talent pool is extra thin...

Unlike Italy, Japan has a professional domestic league backed by owners of billion dollar corporations that long before this tournament has been able to lure top talents to it for the money, particularly late in their careers and that is only becoming more and more the case.

Barrett's new NZR contract literally has a clause to let him go play in Japan for a period if he wants to. Nobody of that magnitude is ever doing that to play in the Italian domestic league, nor will they ever.

 

[Fighter]

Unlike Italy, Japan has a professional domestic league backed by owners of billion dollar corporations that long before this tournament has been able to lure top talents to it for the money, particularly late in their careers and that is only becoming more and more the case.

Barrett's new NZR contract literally has a clause to let him go play in Japan for a period if he wants to. Nobody of that magnitude is ever doing that to play in the Italian domestic league, nor will they ever.

I was talking with the other guy about the possibility of Japan developing some homegrown top talents, and while I hope it will be the case, rugby remain extremely niche in the country. Investments came mainly because of the incoming WC, the question is what will be the future considering that Japan's economy has some major challenges.
I know big players go there for the yens, I think Pollard and De Allende played in Japan too.

 

[Fighter]

Ugly game, Springboks tactical plan to kick whenver possible didn't work at all but at the end the Bokke are in the final. Faf with a so-so game, Pollard man of the match (WTF!!! He didn't really look that good), De Allende should have been awarded that and not only for that monumental try.
I think the longer bench made the difference: Marx , Kitshoff and Koch were outstanding on both sides, Mostert was good too. The two injuries didn't help Wales either: Francis got destroyed by Vermeulen, North had a muscular problem but he was heroic in limping injured towards the wing to go for the tackle (soccer crybabies should watch that).
BTW I hope I won't see Le Roux play ever again, he's been crap in every damn game.

P.S.: if the Bokke will try to play like this vs England, they'll be eaten alive.

 

[Morozov]

I was talking with the other guy about the possibility of Japan developing some homegrown top talents, and while I hope it will be the case, rugby remain extremely niche in the country. Investments came mainly because of the incoming WC, the question is what will be the future considering that Japan's economy has some major challenges.
I know big players go there for the yens, I think Pollard and De Allende played in Japan too.

There was already big money in Japanese Rugby long before they got the World Cup.

Long before someone like Pollard was even a name, big names like Troy Flavell and Leon Macdonald had gone there to get paid late in their careers. This has been a thing for about 15 years now. But it just gets bigger and bigger and increasingly they started to get players going early in their career instead who knew they had no chance of playing for the Springboks or New Zealand instead of those players going to Europe like they would in the past.

Investments did not come mainly because of the World Cup lol. This competition, backed by some of the biggest businesses in the world, started before that was on the cards. This next wave of investment is further catapulting them and taking them to a new level. Look at who actually owns these teams though. There's no comparison to Italy in terms of domestic competition or money.

They've already developed some top players, now. They got to actually showcase themselves in this tournament because hardly anyone sees them.

Italy never had this position of having a domestic league with multiple billionaire owners with a competition that elite world players want to go to and have been for over a decade.

 

[Fighter]

There was already big money in Japanese Rugby long before they got the World Cup.

Long before someone like Pollard was even a name, big names like Troy Flavell and Leon Macdonald had gone there to get paid late in their careers. This has been a thing for about 15 years now. But it just gets bigger and bigger and increasingly they started to get players going early in their career instead who knew they had no chance of playing for the Springboks or New Zealand instead of those players going to Europe like they would in the past.

Investments did not come mainly because of the World Cup lol. This competition, backed by some of the biggest businesses in the world, started before that was on the cards. This next wave of investment is further catapulting them and taking them to a new level. Look at who actually owns these teams though. There's no comparison to Italy in terms of domestic competition or money.

They've already developed some top players, now. They got to actually showcase themselves in this tournament because hardly anyone sees them.

Italy never had this position of having a domestic league with multiple billionaire owners with a competition that elite world players want to go to and have been for over a decade.

Yet again even without billionairse and a rich league Italy can easily (and has previously beaten) Japan. My point is how big of a rugby movement is present in the country, that is I think the primary way to develop some homegrown talents: Italy, especially here in the north east, has quite a notable rugby movement, but the translation into developing players successfully hasn't worked that well. Having big foreign names might help the league itself but the movement as a whole is another matter. Going there at least once per year and sometimes two, I do follow japanese sport newspapers: I heard more about the japanese american football league than about rugby teams. Japan's rugby movement is niche to say the least, also in the physical aspect the japanese are bound to struggle too and that won't help either (good luck in finding an Etzebeth in Japan...).
I sure hope they will develop into a mainstay of the rugby nations but I wouldn't hold my breath on it, the average japanese kid has already a lot to deal with at school and baseball, for example, not only is widly more popular, easier to play since pretty much every school and every town have at least a diamond, but it is also a much less physical-demanding sport. If anything this WC will help in bringing passion and more visibility for the game.

 

[Morozov]

Lots of babblin, doesn't change the fact your claim was false. No language barrier and such, point stands: NZ have arguably the best pool talent in the world BUT they can and WILL pick promising players from the other oceanian nations whenever possible. Yesterday three ABs NOT born in NZ played vs England, two of them played 80 minutes and even more important they are for sure among the very best in the world in their role. That indeed makes a difference! I can only imagine what the score whould have been if only NZ-born players had actually played
Stop bringing Auckland, Wellington and demographics in the argument: I haven't been in NZ so I didn't and I'm not gonna talk about that, it was never my point and it doesn't make it any more legit the fact that ABs can pick the best crops from the islands... Besides I'm sure Samoa looks jussssst a tad different from NZ despite all the culture you share. After all Laulala said it better "I grew up in Samoa, so a big part of my heart is still with MY COUNTRY" Words of a TRUE All Black!

Keep spinning, you look more and more like a buffoon.

Show me where I said all Polynesian All Blacks are born in NZ. I'll wait.

 

[Morozov]

Yet again even without billionairse and a rich league Italy can easily (and has previously beaten) Japan. My point is how big of a rugby movement is present in the country, that is I think the primary way to develop some homegrown talents: Italy, especially here in the north east, has quite a notable rugby movement, but the translation into developing players successfully hasn't worked that well. Having big foreign names might help the league itself but the movement as a whole is another matter; Japan's rugby movement is niche to say the least, also in the physical aspect the japanese are bound to struggle too and that won't help either (good luck in finding an Etzebeth in Japan...).
I sure hope they will develop into a mainstay of the rugby nations but I wouldn't hold my breath on it, the average japanese kid has already a lot to deal with at school and baseball, for example, not only is widly more popular, easier to play since pretty much every school and every town have at least a diamond, but it is also a much less physical-demanding sport.

And yet now Japan is higher on the world rankings than Italy has ever been. Japan also beat Italy last year sooooo, apparently not "easily". They played two games, split them, Japan won one 34-17 meanwhile Italy won 25-22. Is that what easily winning looks like?

The last time they "easily" beat Japan was over a decade ago.

In recent times Japan has done much more significant things than Italy. They've now achieved more at the World Cup than Italy ever has.

While Italy, at a national team level, has had the benefit of being in the six nations. Albeit as the whipping boys of the competition. Japan haven't had that privilege.

Italian Rugby as a whole has never been in the position to succeed that Japan is in.

Most of their league are local talents. Now we see them improving and developing, funny how that accompanies the standard of competition they play in rising. They had several home grown stars in this tournament. What they need now is regular internationals against top countries, not minnowp Pacific nations Cup competition.

Just because Italy failed doesn't mean Japan will. More success, more money, a better league. Yeah, we'll see if they turn into Italy. They've already surpassed Italy.

 

[Fighter]

And yet now Japan is higher on the world rankings than Italy has ever been. Japan also beat Italy last year sooooo, apparently not "easily". They played two games, split them, Japan won one 34-17 meanwhile Italy won 25-22. Is that what easily winning looks like?

Considering the beating we have taken in the last (multiple) Six Nations, I consider a test match vs Japan a better matchup for us.

While Italy, at a national team level, has had the benefit of being in the six nations. Albeit as the whipping boys of the competition. Japan haven't had that privilege.

That comes with the problem of being the only notable rugby team in Asia (ask yourself why rugby isn't popular in Asia...). Rugby Championship have already their wipping boy in Argentina, I don't know if adding Japan would benefit anybody.

Italian Rugby as a whole has never been in the position to succeed that Japan is in.

In 2007-2008 we had an outstanding first line in Castrogiovanni-Ghiraldini-Perugini, a younger Masi, a younger Parisse, the Bergamascos. Granted it was a test match I fondly remember they held their own in San Siro vs the All Blacks (I was there) while being beaten more decisively in Udine by the Springboks (which back then was truly the best team in the world, I was there too). We never really shined much in the Six Nations because after Dominguez and Troncon we lacked a fly half and a scrum half for many years... we wasted loads of points not scoring penalty kicks, but the structure of the team was damn solid. But we didn't have a generational change and that's why we're like this now.

Just because Italy failed doesn't mean Japan will. More success, more money, a better league. Yeah, we'll see if they turn into Italy. They've already surpassed Italy.

Fair enough, I remain a bit skeptical, I think they reached their peak but the future is uncertain, we will see. I'd be extremely happy to see the Brave Blossom... blossoming into a strong rugby nation.

 

[Morozov]

Considering the beating we have taken in the last (multiple) Six Nations, I consider a test match vs Japan a better matchup for us.



That comes with the problem of being the only notable rugby team in Asia (ask yourself why rugby isn't popular in Asia...). Rugby Championship have already their wipping boy in Argentina, I don't know if adding Japan would benefit anybody.



In 2007-2008 we had an outstanding first line in Castrogiovanni-Ghiraldini-Perugini, a younger Masi, a younger Parisse, the Bergamascos. Granted it was a test match I fondly remember they held their own in San Siro vs the All Blacks (I was there) while being beaten more decisively in Udine by the Springboks (which back then was truly the best team in the world, I was there too). We never really shined much in the Six Nations because after Dominguez and Troncon we lacked a fly half and a scrum half for many years... we wasted loads of points not scoring penalty kicks, but the structure of the team was damn solid. But we didn't have a generational change and that's why we're like this now.



Fair enough, I remain a bit skeptical, I think they reached their peak but the future is uncertain, we will see. I'd be extremely happy to see the Brave Blossom... blossoming into a strong rugby nation.

It is. All the more reason why talking about beating them easily doesn't apply, because you don't. And going forward, you wouldn't even be the favourite to actually win. Maybe in Rome. Certainly though even in Rome the line would be low.

We've seen Argentina get stronger and stronger from being in the Rugby Championship. It watered the competition down, and I didn't like it. But nobody can legitimately say Argentina haven't got better in the tournament. They're much more competitive than when they first joined. It will be a slow progress for anyone else who joins too. But Japan need regular top competition to grow just like Argentina did. I'd rather we stuck with the Tri Nations, it had much more rivalry and history and intensity in every game. But for Japan to grow they need more.

Argentina held their own against the All Blacks this year, they only lost by 4. But you're rubbishing them as the whipping boys while praising Italy for hanging with them years ago. Fact remains, Italy never have been this high in the world rankings, or made it to the world cup quarter final. Japan have (and were very unlucky not to 4 years ago also). They've exceeded anything Italy has done now. And again this ignores the position Japan is in to succeed off the field which Italy has never been anything close to.

Depending how you want to define strong Rugby nation they're already there. They're not in that NZ, SA, England, France, Aussie, Wales, Ireland level. But at this point they're up there with anyone else. We won't know their true peak unless they get more opportunities to try climb it.

 

[flyingkiwi]

@Morozov you may or may not be right (it is getting hard to completely follow both sides of the argument) but your posts are really not a good look. Same goes to you @Fighter

Honestly you both are right I think. One important fact that needs to be established regarding NZ citizenship though is that it is by blood and not by birth. Being born in NZ is not enough. I think they require only one citizen parent but I’m not sure if there are restrictions on how that patent obtained their citizenship.

Regarding Morozov’s point, yeah by far and away the vast majority of NZ players are born and bred here as NZ citizens, Polynesian or not. And from the cultural standpoint, a guy like Nepo calling Samoa his country over NZ even in this context isn’t a super huge deal to kiwis cause we get it and other people can think what they will.

Due to various citizenship pathways open to certain Polynesian countries, it means that some even more recent immigrants have become All Blacks eligible off their own backs or through their families rather than being cherry picked out of the Islands to come and play rugby here.

Which of course, does not nullify Fighter’s point that yeah, NZ totally can figure out ways to get the best non-citizen Polynesian players into the All Blacks. Let’s not be naive here. And it’s fair enough to be critical of it as people are of Japan, Scotland etc.

However, I do think that most of this kind of thing happens below the level of the All Blacks, at the schoolboy level perhaps. That’s how the guys get noticed and picked for the provincial and super squads before cracking the ABs. By the time they’re at that point they’ve likely been resident here for a good chunk of time anyway. You can’t just pick a guy fresh out of Tonga or Fiji or whatever and put him straight in the All Blacks, those years in the NZ system are essential. (Though if a recent player like that exists please refute me, it’s 7am and I’m posting on my phone from my bed in France in mobile, research is hard)

But really guys, stop fighting like your arguments are mutually exclusive cause they ain’t.

 

[Morozov]

When there are guys who come out of the islands at older than school age they are getting pulled to Aussie for League not to NZ for Union. More money, more opportunity and your nationality doesn't mean much. Playing Rugby in New Zealand isn't going to get you paid that much unless you can kick on to All Black level, and if you're coming over at 20 or 22 that isn't likely isn't happening and NZR aren't going to invest in you. ITM Cup teams aren't scouring the islands for players like NRL clubs are.

And you can get to the NRL become a mega star, live in Australia so you don't need to go to the other side of the world, get big money, and play for your country. That's why you see a guy like Sivo there. Whereas typically poly players not born in NZ either were moved with the family as kids (like literally thousands of others) or it's a school scholarship. It's not come over, we'll give you a passport and you'll play for NZ, it's the schools (who aren't backed by NZR anyway) doing it for their own benefit.

And that's for the most part limited to the big time Auckland schools anyway.

Funnily enough, it's Aussie that we see some of these guys playing for e.g Nabuli after he bounced out of the NRL and Koroibete because in Aussie the Wallabies get those dregs from the NRL.

In saying that, still if you look at the Polynesian national league teams they're still primarily born and raised in Aussie or NZ players who aren't cracking the Aussie or NZ team. Aside from the Tongan revolt group.

 

[Fighter]

Argentina held their own against the All Blacks this year, they only lost by 4. But you're rubbishing them as the whipping boys while praising Italy for hanging with them years ago. Fact remains, Italy never have been this high in the world rankings, or made it to the world cup quarter final. Japan have (and were very unlucky not to 4 years ago also). They've exceeded anything Italy has done now. And again this ignores the position Japan is in to succeed off the field which Italy has never been anything close to.

Praising Italy?!? Where?!? You must be dreaming...
Dude, I remember the days in which Italy couldn't make five passes in a row without a drop. We have improved but in the last few years the growth has stopped and without generational change we're in a bad shape. If you take this as a praise..

Just as an info, in 42 games in the Rugby Championship Argentina is 5-1-36: if that's not a whipping boy, I don't know what it is.
They probably have improved as you say, but I remember Argentina taking third place in 2007 and fourth in 2015... Whatever...

Depending how you want to define strong Rugby nation they're already there. They're not in that NZ, SA, England, France, Aussie, Wales, Ireland level. But at this point they're up there with anyone else. We won't know their true peak unless they get more opportunities to try climb it.

Well that's exactly what I meant, it's the only tier they can aim now because they have passed Scotland/Italy.

 

[I am not exposed]

As long as they can continue to pay ridiculous salaries in their domestic league and attract foreign players to make up their "national" team then they should be alright.

What will be interesting is to see if they can develop some actual Japanese players or not.

I mean, if we want to go down that rabbit hole, that isn't only a Japanese thing.

So yeah, I'm really glad we went down this rabbit hole....

 

[I am not exposed]

England vs. South Africa final.

So who do you have winning the whole thing?

If South Africa wins, it will be the first time a team has lost a game in the tournament, and gone on to win.

If England win, it means they have beaten all of the big 4 Southern Hemispheres teams.

Clocks are changing, so it will be a 2am kick off in Vancouver! Sigh.

 

[I am not exposed]

Oh, and New Zealand will beat Wales in the 3rd place playoff. New Zealand the only tier one team Gatland has not beaten with Wales.

 

[I am not exposed]

Also, 3rd place playoffs are kind of dumb (except Argentina vs. France in 2007!)

 

[Fighter]

Praised them by talking about them hanging with the All Blacks.....

I said those years were the best we've looked even if results didn't come. Much like what you're saying about Argentina.

You made these rubbish claims about NZ luring people with passports for Rugby because you have no idea.[/quote/]

As a matter of fact I was right. At the same time you were exposed. If four are in the ABs how many actually receive scholarships but are not able to reach AB level. Again, it's nothing really new. The ABs without those three in the semis are strictly a worse team.

You talked about teams apparently disappearing in the Tri Nations that you admit you never watched.

In the 90s. The Springboks in the Trip/RC have never been up to the standards they showed in the WC, save for few editions, plain and simple.

[quote/]You talking about Argentina and how being in TRC hasn't helped them even though you say "they've probably gotten better" because you don't actually know because you don't watch.

I'd take Contepomi's 2007 Argentina any day of the week and twice on Sunday over this one, but that's only me I guess...

About Japan, you keep talking about money when I talk about reach to the average Japanese. Honestly I don't know if aside of the passionate rugby fans, anyone knew who were Pollard, Fourie or even Fukuoka, a Japanese player. Check yourself the average attendance of the Japan Rugby League, then get back to me. I might go one day to watch a game... Maybe. But when in Japan I'd rather go watch baseball.
Again, here's hoping they'll become a tier 1 nation, but I respectfully remain skeptical.

 

[I am not exposed]

I said those years were the best we've looked even if results didn't come. Much like what you're saying about Argentina.




I'd take Contepomi's 2007 Argentina any day of the week and twice on Sunday over this one, but that's only me I guess...

About Japan, you keep talking about money when I talk about reach to the average Japanese. Honestly I don't know if aside of the passionate rugby fans, anyone knew who were Pollard, Fourie or even Fukuoka, a Japanese player. Check yourself the average attendance of the Japan Rugby League, then get back to me. I might go one day to watch a game... Maybe. But when in Japan I'd rather go watch baseball.
Again, here's hoping they'll become a tier 1 nation, but I respectfully remain skeptical.

I would as well.

I don't think Argentina have improved that much tbh due to their participation in the Rugby Championship.

 

[Morozov]

Again, show me where I said all Polynesian All Blacks were born in NZ.

You've told me I said this, so I'm waiting for you to show me. You keep quoting me saying "pretty much all".

Does "pretty much all" mean the same thing? No. Seems pretty easy to figure out for the little man who keeps throwing out the personal attacks. Why can't you do this very simple thing?

So, show me where I said all Polynesian All Blacks are born in NZ. Why is this so hard when you're so adamant it happened?

Until you can do that, there's no point engaging further with you because you're obviously just making things up.