All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread Pt 11

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

@TheRillestPaulFenton I understand the want to have the deepest team possible to still be good post expansion draft.

Unless Fleury becomes a top 3 defender next season or Bean blows the doors off, I can’t see justifying not protecting Skjei. Btw, I don’t know that Bean makes the squad.

With that being said, our non perfect FO needs to improve the team this offseason. Our needs are starting goalie, RH forward who can take draws, Top 6 forward, and RHD. We have a couple of guys who don’t fit into those roles / extremely redundant. If they can be moved to help fill the needs, it should be done.

I'm very much in the talent over handedness crowd. I'd only want a RH forward or a RHD if they're an upgrade from what we have right now. Someone like Trocheck absolutely was (vs. Haula and Wallmark), so IMO that was a no-brainer move. I don't see anybody on the RHD market RN whom represents an upgrade-per-price-point option relative to Gardiner/Fleury/Bean, especially since Gardiner's game has rebounded since January (and his possession stats were always there even at his worst) and we now know that Fleury and Skjei can both pretty capably play their off-side (Skjei certainly has the speed to pull it off). That may change if there are odd men out post-start of UFA, which there very well could be considering the deep RHD UFA class, but for now, I think status quo is best. Also, if there's a LH option that represents an upgrade over what we have, our FO should consider that, too. I'm a huge fan of Shayne Gostisbehere, for example, and Philly fans see him as an odd-man out because he had a down year, meaning that his asset price in a trade could be quite low relative to performance. The Canes, IMO, should do their due diligence if he's available for a low price.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

While we won’t know the exact roster come expansion draft time, I can see the Borg not resigning Dougie until after the draft so that they don’t have to protect him, and then try signing him post draft if Seattle doesn’t. It’s a risk, but one they may take. There’s no guarantee they are even going to pay him what he may command.

 

[Chrispy]

@TheRillestPaulFenton I understand the want to have the deepest team possible to still be good post expansion draft.

Unless Fleury becomes a top 3 defender next season or Bean blows the doors off, I can’t see justifying not protecting Skjei. Btw, I don’t know that Bean makes the squad.

With that being said, our non perfect FO needs to improve the team this offseason. Our needs are starting goalie, RH forward who can take draws, Top 6 forward, and RHD. We have a couple of guys who don’t fit into those roles / extremely redundant. If they can be moved to help fill the needs, it should be done.

I agree that Skjei did not come in to be expansion fodder. I can see giving up a pick to have them take Gardiner, but it's likely Fleury is the pick.

Your off-season needs mostly make sense, but I don't think the RH forward who can take draws is still a huge need. With Trocheck and Geekie, I think they are in good shape for RH faceoff men. I wouldn't require that for the top 6 forward.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I agree that Skjei did not come in to be expansion fodder. I can see giving up a pick to have them take Gardiner, but it's likely Fleury is the pick.

Your off-season needs mostly make sense, but I don't think the RH forward who can take draws is still a huge need. With Trocheck and Geekie, I think they are in good shape for RH faceoff men. I wouldn't require that for the top 6 forward.

The top 6 person doesn’t necessarily need to be a RH FO person.

We have 3 righties at this point. A fourth would be good, especially one we can put on Staal’s line for defensive draw purposes.

 

[bleedgreen]

While a righty who takes draws in the top six isnt required to some level it’s very helpful that someone that you would play that much is a righty and reliable. Trocheck changes the whole look of how we take draws. It should be a priority imo. Righties are still an issue with Williams likely almost done. I don’t assume any righty from the prospect/Charlotte list is a given for a top six spot.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

While a righty who takes draws in the top six isnt required to some level it’s very helpful that someone that you would play that much is a righty and reliable. Trocheck changes the whole look of how we take draws. It should be a priority imo. Righties are still an issue with Williams likely almost done. I don’t assume any righty from the prospect/Charlotte list is a given for a top six spot.

Trocheck and Necas in the top 6 though. 2 out of 6 in the top 6 isn't bad. 1 per line. Then your guys like Geekie that you wouldn't assume as top 6ers can at least be penciled into the bottom 6.

Agree it'd be nice to add another, but also agree with the poster above that adding Trocheck changes things significantly.

 

[MinJaBen]

With the way this front office likes to acquire picks, and with the depth we have on defence for the next year, I think their idea probably is not to waste a pick "buying protection" and having Seattle take the guy they want them to take by also giving up a pick. If there is any team in the league that can stand to just protect 7-3-1 and say "take the best D you want that we've left open", it is us. We'll roll with who we have left.

 

[DaveG]

Trocheck and Necas in the top 6 though. 2 out of 6 in the top 6 isn't bad. 1 per line. Then your guys like Geekie that you wouldn't assume as top 6ers can at least be penciled into the bottom 6.

Agree it'd be nice to add another, but also agree with the poster above that adding Trocheck changes things significantly.

Bokk is also a right, might take another year for him to be there but if we want another righty with top 6 upside there's your guy.

 

[MinJaBen]

Bokk is also a right, might take another year for him to be there but if we want another righty with top 6 upside there's your guy.

If this were normal times, maybe. A whole bunch of kids are probably going to see their development curves flattened with leagues not able to play full schedules.

 

[DaveG]

With the way this front office likes to acquire picks, and with the depth we have on defence for the next year, I think their idea probably is not to waste a pick "buying protection" and having Seattle take the guy they want them to take by also giving up a pick. If there is any team in the league that can stand to just protect 7-3-1 and say "take the best D you want that we've left open", it is us. We'll roll with who we have left.

I don't disagree with that, though I think we're in a position to be able to use the expansion draft for cap relief as well which is the big reason I lean toward us making that deal with Ronnie. The extra 3 million from getting him to take Gardner and rolling Bean in that slot is non-negligible for the long-term salary structure of things.

 

[Chrispy]

Trocheck and Necas in the top 6 though. 2 out of 6 in the top 6 isn't bad. 1 per line. Then your guys like Geekie that you wouldn't assume as top 6ers can at least be penciled into the bottom 6.

Agree it'd be nice to add another, but also agree with the poster above that adding Trocheck changes things significantly.

If Necas can effectively take draws, that's 3 RH face off men for 4 lines.

That said, I'm not assuming Necas will be given a lot of face-offs. It also assumes Necas is not on Trocheck's line, which may be the best slot for him.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

If Necas can effectively take draws, that's 3 RH face off men for 4 lines.

That said, I'm not assuming Necas will be given a lot of face-offs. It also assumes Necas is not on Trocheck's line, which may be the best slot for him.

I don't necessarily think it's a prudent thing to go out of your way to build a roster specifically to have a righty and a lefty on each line that can take faceoffs. I wasn't suggesting that Necas should take faceoffs, more just that sometimes our lines themselves suffer from having all lefties.

Situationally, in the cases where we need to win a faceoff, we now have Staal and Trocheck we can send out there depending on the side. Random draw that happens to be on the left-hand side in the neutral zone at 4:54 of the second period? Who cares, throw the line you want out there.

 

[Canes]

With the way this front office likes to acquire picks, and with the depth we have on defence for the next year, I think their idea probably is not to waste a pick "buying protection" and having Seattle take the guy they want them to take by also giving up a pick. If there is any team in the league that can stand to just protect 7-3-1 and say "take the best D you want that we've left open", it is us. We'll roll with who we have left.

Yeah it's not going to be a backbreaker to lose one of Fleury or Bean, especially to a team in another conference. I doubt Francis will have much interest in a guy like Skjei or Gardiner and we're probably the one of few teams he's least likely to do a favor so we might have to give up more than it's worth to protect who we want. So I say just let them pick who they want.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I doubt Francis will have much interest in dealing with Carolina to "take who we want him to take" either. At the end of the day, we lose 1 guy and it's likely a young guy like Fleury, Bean, which isn't the end of the world given the # of picks and way they acquire prospects.

Again, this will change as we don't know the roster a year from now.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I doubt Francis will have much interest in dealing with Carolina to "take who we want him to take" either. At the end of the day, we lose 1 guy and it's likely a young guy like Fleury, Bean, which isn't the end of the world given the # of picks and way they acquire prospects.

Again, this will change as we don't know the roster a year from now.

Seeing the kinds of amazing players and assets that Vegas got for the same kind of deals, it would be flat-out stupid for Francis to not do a similar approach to next year's expansion draft, grudges or not.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Seeing the kinds of amazing players and assets that Vegas got for the same kind of deals, it would be flat-out stupid for Francis to not do a similar approach to next year's expansion draft, grudges or not.

Meh, he can do that with 29 other teams. He can afford to just not talk to us at all if he wants to be petty.

 

[bleedgreen]

Trocheck and Necas in the top 6 though. 2 out of 6 in the top 6 isn't bad. 1 per line. Then your guys like Geekie that you wouldn't assume as top 6ers can at least be penciled into the bottom 6.

Agree it'd be nice to add another, but also agree with the poster above that adding Trocheck changes things significantly.

With Staal’s NTC I would hope they would consider moving him instead of giving him an expansion spot. If they could find him a home.

 

[bleedgreen]

Bokk is also a right, might take another year for him to be there but if we want another righty with top 6 upside there's your guy.

I agree, I just don’t count our chickens before they hatch. We have some righties in the system you just don’t know who will crack the lineup.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Seeing the kinds of amazing players and assets that Vegas got for the same kind of deals, it would be flat-out stupid for Francis to not do a similar approach to next year's expansion draft, grudges or not.

It would be flat out stupid for Karmanos and Illitch to never do a trade, but there you have it.

not saying Francis won’t try to deal, just predicting that either: a) he’ll make it so onerous that it won’t be palatable to the Canes or b) the Borg won’t want any part of it.

Canes are in a good spot where they don’t have to deal if they don’t want to. Lose a bean or Fleury? No big deal

 

[Canes]

Seeing the kinds of amazing players and assets that Vegas got for the same kind of deals, it would be flat-out stupid for Francis to not do a similar approach to next year's expansion draft, grudges or not.

No one knew how Vegas would pan out. Literally 99% of the hockey world was laughing at and/or criticizing the vast majority of their expansion moves. Also by this logic, wouldn't it be preferable to just go ahead give Francis his pick of Fleury or Bean then, instead of potentially giving him "all kinds of amazing players and assets"?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

With Staal’s NTC I would hope they would consider moving him instead of giving him an expansion spot. If they could find him a home.

Either hell has to freeze over or we have to get a center that Rod is comfortable with in every situation first before Staal goes anywhere.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Either hell has to freeze over or we have to get a center that Rod is comfortable with in every situation first before Staal goes anywhere.

Trocheck should help with that. He's no slouch defensively. Also, I would do anything that I possibly can to get Cirelli. He's probably the only guy that's realistically available that I would legitimately offer Pesce + for (LMFAO at the Pesce for Kapanen posters). Both of them have the types of defensive skills that would get Brindy to wean off of Staal.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Trocheck should help with that. He's no slouch defensively. Also, I would do anything that I possibly can to get Cirelli. He's probably the only guy that's realistically available that I would legitimately offer Pesce + for (LMFAO at the Pesce for Kapanen posters). Both of them have the types of defensive skills that would get Brindy to wean off of Staal.

Comparing Trochek to Staal defensively is like comparing Staal to Trochek offensively.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Comparing Trochek to Staal defensively is like comparing Staal to Trochek offensively.

I didn't say that Trocheck had Staal-like defensive skills. I said that Trocheck was no slouch defensively. That doesn't mean the same thing. Again, I think that it'll take a Cirelli or a similarly Selke-caliber centerman, in combination with Trocheck, to get Brindy away from overplaying Staal. As much as I love Brett Pesce, I would do just about anything to see the two-way monstrosity of an Aho/Cirelli/Trocheck/Staal/Geekie center corps, even if it's just for one year before one of those guys has to be either traded or bought out in order to make room for the Svech extension. I think there should be a deal centered around Cirelli + Cernak for Pesce + 2021 1st as a base. Something like this: Cirelli Deal with Explanation for How Dougie and Svech Can Fit - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Svechnikov-Aho-Teravainen
Gourde-Cirelli-Necas
Niederreiter-Staal-Trocheck
Lorentz-Paquette-Geekie

Slavin-Hamilton
Gardiner-Cernak
Skjei-TVR or Kaski/Cheap UFA
Bean

Reimer
Nedeljkovic

Bolded guys contribute to the possession blackholes appearing on the other team's side for at least half of the game. Best 200-foot defensive lineup in the cap era?

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Uhhh all I’m gonna say is trading Pesce for Cirelli is crazy pills talk. We’re strong down the middle at C now. Aho - Tro - Staal is a very good 1-2-3.

Trading Pesce would decimate our RHD and with Dougie being a UFA in a year, if he walks it would be a disaster. We need complimentary wingers who mesh with the centres we have. Not the other way around.