All purpose trade / roster building thread part 4: We like our Jerks

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Re: some of the guys mentioned.

Callahan: No interest. He has a NMC anyhow.
Hoffman: If Rod hated how Skinner played, he would hate how Hoffman plays. Don't see any chance the Canes go after him.
Marleau: He was pretty bad the latter half of the year in Toronto, he's going to be 40 to start next season. Age is catching up to him bigtime and he no longer has the speed to keep up. He also has a NMC and doubt he'd waive for Car. I'd stay away. The young guys already have enough mentors with JWilly, Rod, and Staal.
Kadri: As I said earlier, I'd be up for that depending on cost.
Kapanen: I think he'd be a good add at the right price. I don't think he's as good as a lot of Leafs fans like to portray though. He's got great speed, a decent shot, but I still question that he has the IQ to take it to the next level offensively. He's versatile though, Rod would love him and he'd fit right in with how the Canes play.
Miller: This guy is such an enigma to me. Seems like he just goes through the motions some times and was almost a scratch in the last playoff game this year. Maybe it's like Nino though where he needs a change of scenery?
Laine: WPG would want a fortune for him. It would be, IMO, way too costly.
Ehlers: I think WPG would be asking for Pesce in a deal for him. Don't think they'll want a deal of lesser pieces so I think he'll be too costly as well.
Karlsson: Would be a good add, but why do we think he's available? Wouldn't LVGN want to move guys like Eakin, Reaves, Haula and even Smith before moving Karlsson?
Haula: Might be good buy low candidate. Another lefty though.
AA: Unfortunately, AA has now moved into the "buy high" category. I wonder how Detroit views AA vs. Mantha?
Nylander: I'd still take him on the team, but I really don't think the Leafs will be moving him, regardless of what fans say.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

LV will try to move Eakin and others before Karlsson. LV is walking into the off-season with 0 cap space before signing anyone, 82.4 million. They will need to add at least 2 roster forwards and a backup goalie. Any trade of roster forward will free up money but create a hole.

They have 8 on LTIR but LTIR doesn’t fall off until October 2nd.

I’d do a trade involving Eakin for a nhl ready prospect not named Necas. Even after this move they would give them the 3 million to fill their roster. Need another 6-7 million to sign Karlsson.

Maybe get crazy and do Eakin (great 3C for us), Clarkson, and their 1st rounder for Kuokkanen and Buffalo’s 2nd rounder. Eakin and Clarkson only have 1 year left so no expansion draft worries. LV clears 8 million in cap space. That could be enough to keep Karlsson and fill 3 spots. I don’t like the idea of taking on Clarkson but 1 year of Clarkson is worth a 1st rounder, IMO.

 

[spockBokk]

Kapanen, to me, seems like the most logical add. Earlier this year, pre-Nino trade and Fox rejection, I would have been on with a Kapanen + 1st type deal for Pesce. Now, Pesce would be 1 of my absolute untouchables. The way he played out the season and the certainty his contract brings to the D are 2 things that I don’t think CAR could replace.

I’d entertain a trade of the 1st + Mckeown for Kapanen. He’s, what 22? And he’d slot right in to the top 6. The team has the prospect depth to handle the loss of a 1st this year. Plus, they have a high 2nd, there own 2nd and I imagine they’re getting at least another 2nd our of NYR for Fox. With the supposed lack of depth in this year’s draft after the top few picks, I’d say this would be the year to parlay a the 1st into a young player ready to play now, and they still add to the prospect pool with at least 2 picks on the top 62.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

LV will try to move Eakin and others before Karlsson. LV is walking into the off-season with 0 cap space before signing anyone, 82.4 million. They will need to add at least 2 roster forwards and a backup goalie. Any trade of roster forward will free up money but create a hole.

They have 8 on LTIR but LTIR doesn’t fall off until October 2nd.

I’d do a trade involving Eakin for a nhl ready prospect not named Necas. Even after this move they would give them the 3 million to fill their roster. Need another 6-7 million to sign Karlsson.

Maybe get crazy and do Eakin (great 3C for us), Clarkson, and their 1st rounder for Kuokkanen and Buffalo’s 2nd rounder. Eakin and Clarkson only have 1 year left so no expansion draft worries. LV clears 8 million in cap space. That could be enough to keep Karlsson and fill 3 spots. I don’t like the idea of taking on Clarkson but 1 year of Clarkson is worth a 1st rounder, IMO.

Just to clarify, Eakin and Clarkson wouldn't be expansion draft concerns even if they were signed longer. Eakin would just be exposed as he doesn't have a NMC and I'm sure the Canes would protect other players 1st. If we lost him, so be it. Even with a NMC, Clarkson didn't need to be protected last draft because of LTIR so he's not a concern either.

That said, I'm curious though why we'd do that 2nd deal? A 3C (Eakin) that's signed for 1 year and taking on Clarkson's contract and we give up Kuokkanen just to move up ~15 spots in the draft? Seems like we are doing them a big favor and not getting that much in return (and I don't think much of Kuokkanen).

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

The reason I mentioned Marleau is specifically because he only has a year left. It's like the Bickell scenario: use the cap space to fit a bad contract for one year so that you can pay less for an actually valuable player (like Kapanen/Johnsson/Nylander/Kadri). I think it's worth a shot. If he uses his NMC to turn down the Canes, just make a deal for one of those players straight up while paying more in futures. This is not like taking on a Lucic contract, because it's not for multiple years.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The reason I mentioned Marleau is specifically because he only has a year left. It's like the Bickell scenario: use the cap space to fit a bad contract so that you can pay less for an actually valuable player (like Kapanen/Johnsson/Nylander/Kadri). I think it's worth a shot. If he turns down the Canes, just make a deal for one of those players straight up while paying more in futures.

I understand, but during the Bickell time, we were not a playoff team, we were rebuilding, and basically needed him to get to the cap floor, so taking on that contract made sense. Now, we aren't in a position to take on players we don't want/need (if he waives his NMC - he's going to want some assurance he's going to play a meaningful role IMO) and once Aho is signed, we'll be way above the cap floor. On top of that, in the Bickell situation, we were helping out a Western Conf. team, so it had no impact on our own ability to make the playoffs. Here, it's a team that we will (hopefully) be competing with for playoff spot/seeding, so I'm not inclined to help them out of their situation without making it super painful.

I think it's extremely unlikely Marleau would waive to come here anyhow so I don't expect it to be an option.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Just to clarify, Eakin and Clarkson wouldn't be expansion draft concerns even if they were signed longer. Eakin would just be exposed as he doesn't have a NMC and I'm sure the Canes would protect other players 1st. If we lost him, so be it. Even with a NMC, Clarkson didn't need to be protected last draft because of LTIR so he's not a concern either.

That said, I'm curious though why we'd do that 2nd deal? A 3C (Eakin) that's signed for 1 year and taking on Clarkson's contract and we give up Kuokkanen just to move up ~15 spots in the draft? Seems like we are doing them a big favor and not getting that much in return (and I don't think much of Kuokkanen).

I know you put around 15 and this seems pedantic but, any movement up in the 1st round is worth a decent amount (its currently an 18 spot difference). We can also say it will be our 2nd instead of Buffalo's. The expansion draft concern was more focused on if we acquire a Kapanen, Nylander, Karlsson, etc we would want to protect them or if we absorbed a stupid contract like Lucic then he would have to be protected (the ask or us would be much higher). As you added, this deal wouldnt require either.

The benefit of the 2nd deal is we get a better shot a Caufield, McMichael, Newhook, etc at 17. The mock boards are all over the place on them. Caufield is going anywhere from 11th to 23rd. Another benefit, our market for Faulk opens up as we would be more willing to trade him for futures.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I understand, but during the Bickell time, we were not a playoff team, we were rebuilding, and basically needed him to get to the cap floor, so taking on that contract made sense. Now, we aren't in a position to take on players we don't want/need (if he waives his NMC - he's going to want some assurance he's going to play a meaningful role IMO) and once Aho is signed, we'll be way above the cap floor. On top of that, in the Bickell situation, we were helping out a Western Conf. team, so it had no impact on our own ability to make the playoffs. Here, it's a team that we will (hopefully) be competing with for playoff spot/seeding, so I'm not inclined to help them out of their situation without making it super painful.

I think it's extremely unlikely Marleau would waive to come here anyhow so I don't expect it to be an option.

Here's the thing, though: we know that Marleau is not going to waive his NMC to go to any of the non-contending cap floor teams like Ottawa or New Jersey. He probably wants to stay with a contending team, which the Canes IMO are going to be for the next few years. This team is in a unique position, IOW: they have a contending core AND the most cap space in the league. If they want to, the Canes FO has the leverage to use their cap space to make a rival worse. Who wouldn't want to do that if they could?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Here's the thing, though: we know that Marleau is not going to waive his NMC to go to any of the non-contending cap floor teams like Ottawa or New Jersey. He probably wants to stay with a contending team, which the Canes IMO are going to be for the next few years. This team is in a unique position, IOW: they have a contending core AND the most cap space in the league.

Maybe, but:
1) We don't know anything for sure about Marleau. Based on what I've read and hear, he really wanted to only go to Toronto once he left San Jose. Assuming he'd want to go to other contenders is just that, an assumption. We all assumed Skinner would want to go to a contender originally last year and that was proven wrong.
2), as I said, Marleau REALLY tailed off at the end of the year. Earlier, even if he wasn't scoring he still had speed to be effective, and that was gone. Like I said, if Marleau was to waive, then I would assume he's going to do it only with an assurance he's going to have a meaningful role on the team. Canes can't, and shouldn't put themselves in that position for a 40 year old who's play has tailed off.
3) I don't think the Canes are going to have the most cap space in the league. They are already at $53M with 13 players signed for next year. Williams and Aho alone could put them at $65M. Add in two goalies, and 4 more forwards and they will be considerably higher than this year. I don't think cap space will be an issue, but not sure they want to take on bad contracts either.

If they want to, the Canes FO has the leverage to use their cap space to make a rival worse. Who wouldn't want to do that if they could?

I don't think it make them worse, because by taking on Marleau, at team is giving them a $6.25M Cap relief, which is incredibly valuable to a team like Toronto. They are likely to lose one or two of Kapanen/Johnsson/Nylander/Kadri and have to replace Gardiner and Hainsey regardless. If they are stuck with Marleau, it means they either have to move more of those guys OR put lesser players in as replacements for guys they lose. So IMO, by taking on Marleau, we would be helping a EC team, not hurting them.

Of course, there's always a pain threshold. If the Leafs were to make an offer we can't refuse to take on Marleau, then sure. I just don't think it will come to that.

 

[MinJaBen]

I think it's extremely unlikely Marleau would waive to come here anyhow so I don't expect it to be an option.

Well, unless he wants to go farther in the playoffs...

 

[My Special Purpose]

Re: some of the guys mentioned.

Callahan: No interest. He has a NMC anyhow.
Hoffman: If Rod hated how Skinner played, he would hate how Hoffman plays. Don't see any chance the Canes go after him.
Marleau: He was pretty bad the latter half of the year in Toronto, he's going to be 40 to start next season. Age is catching up to him bigtime and he no longer has the speed to keep up. He also has a NMC and doubt he'd waive for Car. I'd stay away. The young guys already have enough mentors with JWilly, Rod, and Staal.
Kadri: As I said earlier, I'd be up for that depending on cost.
Kapanen: I think he'd be a good add at the right price. I don't think he's as good as a lot of Leafs fans like to portray though. He's got great speed, a decent shot, but I still question that he has the IQ to take it to the next level offensively. He's versatile though, Rod would love him and he'd fit right in with how the Canes play.
Miller: This guy is such an enigma to me. Seems like he just goes through the motions some times and was almost a scratch in the last playoff game this year. Maybe it's like Nino though where he needs a change of scenery?
Laine: WPG would want a fortune for him. It would be, IMO, way too costly.
Ehlers: I think WPG would be asking for Pesce in a deal for him. Don't think they'll want a deal of lesser pieces so I think he'll be too costly as well.
Karlsson: Would be a good add, but why do we think he's available? Wouldn't LVGN want to move guys like Eakin, Reaves, Haula and even Smith before moving Karlsson?
Haula: Might be good buy low candidate. Another lefty though.
AA: Unfortunately, AA has now moved into the "buy high" category. I wonder how Detroit views AA vs. Mantha?
Nylander: I'd still take him on the team, but I really don't think the Leafs will be moving him, regardless of what fans say.

I agree with a lot of this, but not the "too costly" part. IMO, the Canes are going to identify a guy they want and go get him this summer. I think there will be a blockbuster deal, every bit as polarizing as the Hamilton trade, if not moreso. I think it's just how Dundon thinks, and even Waddell seems to be coming around to the benefits of being hyper-aggressive in the trade market.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I agree with a lot of this, but not the "too costly" part. IMO, the Canes are going to identify a guy they want and go get him this summer. I think there will be a blockbuster deal, every bit as polarizing as the Hamilton trade, if not moreso. I think it's just how Dundon thinks, and even Waddell seems to be coming around to the benefits of being hyper-aggressive in the trade market.

Hmmm. Maybe. I don't have a good enough read on Dundon yet. We saw a bunch of drastic changes in 1 year with new GM, Coach, Assistant Coaches, multiple big player moves, etc...and the team has had a lot of success. Will he say it worked once, it may work again or will he be more along the mindset of those moves were needed to kick start it, now we need to make smaller moves to keep the momentum going. You may be right so it will be interesting to see.

I suspect Fox (duh), Faulk, and maybe even TVR will be moved this off-season, just not sure who else.

 

[bleedgreen]

I’m not convinced Eakin would be our third center. I’d like to see how that worked out and he’s right up Rod’s alley.

 

[NotOpie]

I doubt we go after a guy like Duchene in UFA (even though I'd prefer him). Who else might be some other targets for trade options?

Haven't looked a great deal at trade options, but there are exactly 14 UFA forwards who scored 40 points or more....including Ferland and Justin Williams. Of that group there are 4 right shots. Exclude Panarin and Williams and you're left with Joe Pavelski and a guy I'd consider for the right price, Brett Connolly. I'm also of the mind that a Jordan Eberle might be worth a look. He might not fit Rod's team concept, but if he works in Trotz's system, who knows.

Personally I would love to somehow get Laine, but besides the fact that he won't be available, the asking price would be astronomical.
Maybe Kapanen or Nylander?

There's been some scuttlebutt that Laine has a significant back issue. I'll see if I can find something on it, but that was floating around the inter webs today. Personally, if I'm going after a Winnipeg RFA I'm gunning for Conner.

If the Leafs would take Faulk (which may happen if Dubas caves to the pressure of Babcock publicly demanding a RHD) and some change (maybe one of our Charlotte forwards) for Kadri, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Would be a great fit in this room IMO, and definitely a Brind’Amour type.

I might also be okay with Kadri, but I disagree with those who think he'll be moved for the high price the Leafs seemingly want. There's no two ways about it, they are in cap purgatory. They will almost certainly have to move two or three of Nylander, Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, and/or Brown. As much as they want to move Marleau and Zaitsev, those guys won't be going anywhere....and frankly, the Leafs would have to move something like a Kapanen or Johnsson to get anybody to take one of those contracts.

This is a long-winded way of saying, given Kadri's 5 suspensions in the last 7 years, plus the cap issues the Leafs face, I just don't believe the cost to make a move for him would be as great as some think. And if we ever were to work a deal for Marleau (but he ain't waiving IMO) and Kadri as a package, we'd certainly not be adding to Faulk to do so (okay, maybe a 6th or 7th rounder).

 

[emptyNedder]

Of course the hope is Svech and Martinook are back. If for some reason neither can play and Maenalanen is out, I would vote for Geekie. He seems to have that Foegele playoff magic.

 

[Unsustainable]

Of course the hope is Svech and Martinook are back. If for some reason neither can play and Maenalanen is out, I would vote for Geekie. He seems to have that Foegele playoff magic.

Geekie and Gauthier

 

[SaskCanesFan]

Time for Necas yet? This series isn't nearly the bloodbath Washington was, I think he'd fare alright

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Time for Necas yet? This series isn't nearly the bloodbath Washington was, I think he'd fare alright

Necas should be the last Checker to come up. One game and he is expansion draft eligible and takes away a year of ELC. It doesn’t make sense.

Bring up Pots.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

f*** it, bring up Geekie. I haven't watched a second of playtime, but my gut tells me he's the first guy I thought of.

 

[cptjeff]

Necas should be the last Checker to come up. One game and he is expansion draft eligible and takes away a year of ELC. It doesn’t make sense.

Bring up Pots.

Two- he's at 8 now, and 10 is the magic number. He can play one game without triggering the ELC slide or hitting his first pro year for expansion draft purposes. So save him for the finals in case we need him then, and then he can get his name on the cup with one game. But while I doubt anyone cares about the ELC slide, the expansion draft has to be a big consideration here. Unless we're actively playing for a cup, we can afford to let Necas stay in Charlotte. If we are, then he can get one game in.

Pots is a good choice. It really does seem like sticking to guys with NHL exposure is the best idea, especially if we're getting Svech back as a scorer. Not that Pots has been terrible in that department in Charlotte.

 

[ookhaab]

Necas can still play in 2 games this season, cannot exceed 9 games in one season.

Players with two years of professional experience or less will be exempt from the process. Determining who that covers is based on the definition included in the collective bargaining agreement – meaning that 10 games played in the NHL at age 18 or 19 counts as a season, as does any American Hockey League or NHL season for players older than that.

Sources:

Entry-Level Slide Candidates - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

NHL teams receiving information on potential expansion draft - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Ole Gil]

Necas played one game last year as well. So I think he's at 9.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Necas played one game last year as well. So I think he's at 9.

Hes not ready so this is a moot point. There are probably 5 guys in CLT up before him for this playoffs

 

[Chrispy]

Necas played one game last year as well. So I think he's at 9.

I thought the game last season didn't count; it's only this season.

And everything I can find says he played 1 game last season and 7 this season. Martin Necas Stats and News

 

[MinJaBen]

I thought the game last season didn't count; it's only this season.

And everything I can find says he played 1 game last season and 7 this season. Martin Necas Stats and News

I was always under the impression that it is 10 total games and not season dependent. @Lempo?