PK's lack of speed is so weird to me, because he's an excellent skater in every other way. His edge work is phenomenal. He can turn on a dime. He's like a sports car that's stuck in first gear. Extremely nimble, fast acceleration ... Up to about 10mph then you're waiting for the rest to kick in and nope.
All Purpose PK Subban Discussion Thread Part 2
- Thread starter PredsV82
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He's like a pitcher that has incredible control and placement that allows him to be successful, but he can't throw over 85.
Legionnaire11
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To me, he's the anti-Lemieux. Mario never looked like he was doing too much more than just floating around out there and especially early was often accused of being lazy, but he was actually great and productive skater. Subban on the other hand looks like he's skating his rear end off but isn't accomplishing a whole lot.
Porter Stoutheart
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I wonder if there is anything he can do training-wise that would help with his speed? I guess at 30 that ship may have sailed. But I always hear it said that he has trained more for strength, packing a little extra bulk on his otherwise not-big-for-an-NHL-defenseman frame, when maybe he could adjust things for a little more quickness as he gets older?
I just think he focuses on strength. It works in a lot of ways but he's just not a speed guy. It is what it is.
He's comfortable knocking those golf balls around already.
TitansVolsPreds615
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Porter Stoutheart
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It's astonishing to me how some of the outsider fans describe him. Fast, rushing, pure offense? It's jarring, because he's slow as molasses, and while he's relatively agile and can weave around checkers pretty well, he rarely carries the puck deep. He battles hard and is an agitator on D, which we need, and he's pretty smart and creative with the puck on his stick in the o-zone. He makes some great passes inside the zone. He has a good shot that he has definitely had some trouble getting through traffic. But I think like we saw on the Watson goal last night, it shouldn't take a lot of coaching to turn that back into an asset for us --- he doesn't need the Big Shot to be effective, just the threat of it, and sometimes just flipping it on net for a rebound is going to work.
I'm glad we saw a last few weeks where he was a lot more effective for us than he had been most of the season. He should probably make more like $7M than $9M, but that contract isn't exactly on us.
Plus let's say it should be $6-7 instead of $9. That gap isn't really the key concern here because it's an overpay to a good player. A good player who likely generates at least that much money for ownership in off ice dollars.
With that said, we definitely have overpays in other areas that look to be potential complete wastes at this point.
With that said, we definitely have overpays in other areas that look to be potential complete wastes at this point.
Porter Stoutheart
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Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. And I guess Subban WAS a Norris finalist the year before this - not sure how deserved that really was, but it's an indication of "elite" status anyway. $7M on average, or even $9M that year, that's not really a kicker. Our cap situation isn't dire. A $2M overpay isn't something that really ought to hurt us - as fans maybe we get over-excited by the sticker price, but in reality $2M ought to be nothing in the big picture.
I hope we hear something posthumously on the injury/health front about Subban. I'm kind of crystallizing into the stance that I'd lean towards keeping him, but we still have that unknown factor lingering out there.
Between him and Ellis, we have to have 2 of the slowest puck moving defensemen out there.
zhok
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- Feb 10, 2018
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Good to see PK giving better effort in a couple of playoff games, but doesn't excuse his horrid regular season.
He's only going to get slower, which is a recipe for disaster with high risk players.
Trade him if you can get something decent in return. That's what I said last year to much dismay; now his value is about half of what of was.
Not sure what to make of Ellis' step back. He had been a model of consistency prior to this year. He was disappointing no doubt, but a +21 while playing against good competition and with overall bad offensively players... could be worse. I expect a rebound, hopefully to go along with a coaching change.
He's only going to get slower, which is a recipe for disaster with high risk players.
Trade him if you can get something decent in return. That's what I said last year to much dismay; now his value is about half of what of was.
Not sure what to make of Ellis' step back. He had been a model of consistency prior to this year. He was disappointing no doubt, but a +21 while playing against good competition and with overall bad offensively players... could be worse. I expect a rebound, hopefully to go along with a coaching change.
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He did get slower since he got to nashville. In the beginning i thought it might be cause of an injury but really now im sure irs because of too much muscle mass he added. Bad choice from his trainning coach.
I still think hes better than what we see in nashville cause hes not used as a no1 D-man. Wont be surprised to see him traded to free some cap space
I still think hes better than what we see in nashville cause hes not used as a no1 D-man. Wont be surprised to see him traded to free some cap space
Catanddogguitarrr
Registered User
Habs fan here. I saw what you say about his speed the last year he was an Habs player. And he was younger and faster. I would say to you he was so freaking fast in his two first years in nhl. It was wow spectaculor every shift. And I'm not talking about his big hits among the boards. Then he got more muscles, more weight and got slower. Just a little bit but still, he was fast enough to be an elite nhl player. Overall, he was more efficient scoring goals and being offensive than stricky a defenceman in his own zone. At the time, we were able to compare with another top defenseman Erik Karlsson from the Ottawa Senators. Karlsson was much faster than PK I can say. And still is today. But PK is a bigger guy and tougher.
Because Mtl Canadians was a bad team with weak offensive players, PK was taking too many chances and tryed to carry the offense all by himself. Example, he dekes one player, then another one and then he was stopped in the offensive zone and create a turnover. His teamates didn't know how to deal with that. The Mtl Canadiens board was very divised about him. There was his haters and his diehard fans. I watched some Nashville games after his trade and I saw a very different PK, playing a team game, not taking too many chances, a perfect PK. He would never have been traded if he had play a team game like in Nashville. I can say many hockey journalists said he has been largely overpaid with his 9 M, it's one of our gm's mistake, like the overpaid goalie Price with 10,5 M. Seabrook was paid 5 M at that time.
Now we have Weber, a beloved player or an hated player, depending on mtl boards members, we are very "bipolar" in Montreal, lol. But that's another story.
dackelljuneaubulis02
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Yeah rookie PK was legit fast. He may have just packed on too much weight. God rookie PK was a sight to behold. He looked like a borderline generational talent. It's been a slow decline for him but it started quite early imo.
Maybe Subban is seeing/feeling the same thing and will make a switch this summer? I remember Roenick saying something similar when he was in Philadelphia that he got too big and it affected his game.
GoldOnGold
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NoNecksCurse
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great answer from PK and don't disagree with anything he said.
Awesome, awesome stuff right there.
I will say it again for the millionth time- how anyone can dislike the guy as much as many do I will never, ever understand.
atilla the honeybun
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zhok
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Might have something to do with being the highest paid NHL defenseman, while playing like the 50th best this year. Pretty simple formula for criticism.
The hate for PK existed well before we got to whatever version of him you're describing. So it's obviously not rooted to his performance/$.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
Yeah, and underperforming his contract doesn't give any reason for fans around the league to boo him, they should be happy with that.
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