Pre-Game Talk: All Purpose Off Day Thread | Ruhwedel to W-B/S for Conditioning

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins didn’t struggle from 2010-2016 though.

They had three second round series go to seven games. They took Tampa to seven games without Sid and Geno and then made an ECF. 2012 and 2015 were the only disappointments there.

I guess it depends on what expectations you have for the team. It's not even a "cup or bust" idea, if you get swept in a series and only score 2 goals, that's not good. If you blow a 3-1 series lead when you get 3 goals in your last 3 games, that's not good. 2011 and 2015 were the only years there that weren't disappointments, just because I expected those performances in those years.

Either way, my original comment didn't warrant this side track, so I'm just going to call it quits now. My original statement wasn't relevant enough for me to bother arguing it

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

...

I don't know why people on this ****ing site argue over completely non-controversial statements. ...

Pot meet kettle.

 

[Gurglesons]

I guess it depends on what expectations you have for the team. It's not even a "cup or bust" idea, if you get swept in a series and only score 2 goals, that's not good. If you blow a 3-1 series lead when you get 3 goals in your last 3 games, that's not good. 2011 and 2015 were the only years there that weren't disappointments, just because I expected those performances in those years.

Either way, my original comment didn't warrant this side track, so I'm just going to call it quits now. My original statement wasn't relevant enough for me to bother arguing it

I just hear this a lot how we were “disappointing in 12-15”.

It’s simply not true.

Our team had a winning arc of 2007-2010. 2010 is certainly a disappointment. After 2010 Sid and Geno got rewarded and we were still a contender, but their contracts were going to hamper any depth unless he struck big in the draft.

2011-14 were the Sid, Geno and Fleury then Letang contracts doing us in cap wise.

2014-15 was definitely a disappointment, but what needed to be done.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pot meet kettle.

Can you provide some examples? If you're going to say "Pot meet kettle", at least provide some examples.

Sure, I know of some situations where I do that, but it's pretty much solely Johnson.

I just hear this a lot how we were “disappointing in 12-15”.

It’s simply not true.

Our team had a winning arc of 2007-2010. 2010 is certainly a disappointment.

2011-15 were the Sid, Geno and Fleury then Letang contracts doing us in cap wise.

Like I said, I think it just depends on what your expectations are for the team. If you just look at the overall results, they were good for a contending team. But when you're supposed to be competing for a cup and implode in the playoffs? Imploding in the ECF isn't better than imploding in the 1st round, it's still imploding.

 

[Gurglesons]

Like I said, I think it just depends on what your expectations are for the team. If you just look at the overall results, they were good for a contending team. But when you're supposed to be competing for a cup and implode in the playoffs? Imploding in the ECF isn't better than imploding in the 1st round, it's still imploding.

Was 2013 technically a roster issue though?

2012 and 2014, sure. But, it isn’t like the Kings or Hawks didn’t have those types of embarrassments as well. Hawks has basically two years and then three and the Kings had a three year window. Developing prospects did nothing for them that it didn’t do four us and we went to an additional final and conference final.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Was 2013 technically a roster issue though?

2012 and 2014, sure.

I think it's not a debate I feel like getting into

It depends on how you feel about them becoming a lot slower with their deadline acquisitions for whether you think that roster had problems.

But, it isn’t like the Kings or Hawks didn’t have those types of embarrassments as well. Hawks has basically two years and then three and the Kings had a three year window. Developing prospects did nothing for them that it didn’t do four us and we went to an additional final and conference final.

The cap screwed over the Hawks more than anything, they had to gut themselves after 2010 because of how many young guys in need of raises they had. I don't even know what happened to the Kings, they just abruptly fell off after the 2014 cup.

 

[ColePens]

What are your expectations, Emp? A Stanley Cup every single year? Do you not think there are other teams out there or something?

 

[Empoleon8771]

What are your expectations, Emp? A Stanley Cup every single year? Do you not think there are other teams out there or something?

Not losing in an embarrassing fashion seemingly every year? I don't think that's too much to ask for. It's the same situation as the Steelers right now, are you satisfied with how the Steelers have been in recent years?

I don't care if they lose, I care if they just constantly make themselves look like asses when they lose. I'm not even mad about the loss last year, that was just a good series between two good teams and someone just has to lose. That's not what the 2010-2015 Penguins were, that team constantly played down to inferior teams and lost in embarrassing ways in the playoffs due to it.

That's not even really the point here, either. This entire discussion started off as a quick comment about how the Penguins development strategy back in the day may have resulted in their draft results being bad from 2006-2009. That somehow turned into me complaining about the Penguins winning 2 cups in 2016 and 2017, because you're not allowed to make observations about faults of the team in the past.

 

[ColePens]

Sooooo the coach was fired, they tried another one, fired him quickly when it didn't work, tried another one... success.

Soooooo what in the world are you complaining about? Do you think it's just an automatic success every year? Lemieux was the GOAT hockey player and he only had 2 Cups. It's a team game. There are so many things that go into winning the Cup.

I just do not understand your absurd expectations.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not losing in an embarrassing fashion seemingly every year? I don't think that's too much to ask for. It's the same situation as the Steelers right now, are you satisfied with how the Steelers have been in recent years?

I don't care if they lose, I care if they just constantly make themselves look like asses when they lose. I'm not even mad about the loss last year, that was just a good series between two good teams and someone just has to lose. That's not what the 2010-2015 Penguins were, that team constantly played down to inferior teams and lost in embarrassing ways in the playoffs due to it.

I’m going to remove 2010 and 2015 because we were in the second round so obviously the team made it to the ECF.

2011 - Tampa - ECF - Took Boston to Seven
2012 - Embarassing
2013 - Lost in an ECF. Not sure this was “embarassing” due to the players.
2014 - SCF finalist.

I think 2010 and 2012 are the only time we lost to an “inferior” team.

2010 was essentially last year. The squad was just burnt out especially the older members. 2012 was embarassing, but probably the most entertaining series from 2010-2015 tbh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sooooo the coach was fired, they tried another one, fired him quickly when it didn't work, tried another one... success.

Soooooo what in the world are you complaining about? Do you think it's just an automatic success every year? Lemieux was the GOAT hockey player and he only had 2 Cups. It's a team game. There are so many things that go into winning the Cup.

I just do not understand your absurd expectations.

Do you know what's pathetic here? Go back and read my original post. Don't want to dig for it? Well, I'll just bring it back here.

Eh, I actually thought Tangradi was decent as a net front guy. Granted, when I say "decent", I don't mean anything that special. I do think that's the second biggest reason Tangradi busted, after his comically bad skating. It's like when they converted (or tried to convert) Pouliot from an OFD to a 2-way defenseman, he was decent defensively by the end of it. He had just lost a vast majority of his offensive talent and he was only decent defensively.

Looking back on it, the Penguins had a vast history of mismanaging prospects from like 2010-2014. That may explain why their draft picks ended up so bad from 2006-2009, they were horribly mismanaging those guys in the minors.

This was my original post, which Pixies decided to turn into a "you're complaining about winning cups!". It was an observation I made based on the organization trying to change prospects like Tangradi and Pouliot, it made me wonder if that's a part of the reason why their drafting was a problem from 2006-2009. I only started complaining because you started replying to me with obnoxious posts screaming about cup wins and "STOP COMPLAINING!!!".

This entire discussion started because of a gross misrepresentation of a quick comment, and now somehow I'm complaining about how things have turned out for the Penguins? Spare me that crap. If you're really going to try and drown out any critical discussion about the team in the past with "WE WON 3 CUPS STOP COMPLAINING!", especially as a mod, this hockey board sucks and I might as well leave it.

 

[ColePens]

It does seem like you are complaining, though. Just saying.

 

[Gurglesons]

Do you know what's pathetic here? Go back and read my original post. Don't want to dig for it? Well, I'll just bring it back here.



This was my original post, which Pixies decided to turn into a "you're complaining about winning cups!". It was an observation I made based on the organization trying to change prospects like Tangradi and Pouliot, it made me wonder if that's a part of the reason why their drafting was a problem from 2006-2009. I only started complaining because you started replying to me with obnoxious posts screaming about cup wins and "STOP COMPLAINING!!!".

This entire discussion started because of a gross misrepresentation of a quick comment, and now somehow I'm complaining about how things have turned out for the Penguins? Spare me that crap. If you're really going to try and drown out any critical discussion about the team in the past with "WE WON 3 CUPS STOP COMPLAINING!", especially as a mod, this hockey board sucks and I might as well leave it.

My point is drafting and developing is not the be all / end all to win cups. And our team has sustained more success with our draft picks than Chicago who many would argue “developed” the best in the last ten years.