Pre-Game Talk: All Purpose Off Day Thread | Ruhwedel to W-B/S for Conditioning

[Tom Hanks]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry ...

Probably means Rust is a short term or they don’t wont to move Simon away from Geno just yet

ZAR has looked best with Sid in his time here. He seems effective with him if not unspectacular.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry ...

I don't know what you expected, to be honest.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The funny part is ZAR looks better in the top six than the bottom six. He’s also on pace for a 16 goal season.

Don’t really get the hate on him to be honest. He’s the definition of a 4th liner that can jump up and not look TOO out of place. He’s essentially Eric Fehr without the dual center usage.

I don't even think ZAR is a 4th liner, he's in the same boat as Sprong. He's a complementary winger for skilled linemates, I don't know why people treat him like another Kuhnhackl type of player. He's a net front guy, not a grinder.

The guy I think is the best comparison for ZAR is Tangradi. Whether he ends up an AHL version of Tangradi or a NHL top-9 version of Tangradi remains to be seen.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't even think ZAR is a 4th liner, he's in the same boat as Sprong. He's a complementary winger for skilled linemates, I don't know why people treat him like another Kuhnhackl type of player. He's a net front guy, not a grinder.

I dunno. I see him as a player that should be typically around 11-12 minutes maybe higher if PKing a lot that chips in at most 20 points unless we bump him up temporarily to the top nine.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Not gonna lie, I 100% forgot that Ruh existed till they said he was sent down last night.

He wasn’t playing great either when he got his chances. Previous years he’s been serviceable. Not so much this season. If he stays at #8 on the depth chart that’s cool though

 

[Nakawick]

Why are our chances so much higher than the Isles? They have the same point percentage assuming they win their game in hand.

Does Mccurdy use strength of schedule in his model too? Or other factors?

Other factors probably. The Pens have had better second halves for the last few years and the Isles a long history of suckage and mediocrity.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I dunno. I see him as a player that should be typically around 11-12 minutes maybe higher if PKing a lot that chips in at most 20 points unless we bump him up temporarily to the top nine.

I edited this in after I made the original post, I view ZAR to be the new version of Tangradi. I don't know if he'll follow the same path, but I do think they're incredibly comparable as players in terms of strengths, weaknesses and play style.

Whether ZAR actually becomes a top-6 net front guy or a career AHLer remains to be seen, but I don't think he has a future as a 4th liner. It's the same deal as Tangradi, he's either on a top-9 scoring line or he's in the AHL.

 

[Shady Machine]

Hm where is Maatta?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't even think ZAR is a 4th liner, he's in the same boat as Sprong. He's a complementary winger for skilled linemates, I don't know why people treat him like another Kuhnhackl type of player. He's a net front guy, not a grinder.

The guy I think is the best comparison for ZAR is Tangradi. Whether he ends up an AHL version of Tangradi or a NHL top-9 version of Tangradi remains to be seen.

Pretty bad comparison.

Tangradi was way more skilled and a finesse player in a big man’s body that they wanted to play a power fwd game.

ZAR is more of the Mango Salsa, Stone, Caputi ilk. Probably a little more physical than Mango was, but basically they didn’t do anything at all offensively except have good touch around the net.

I can’t see him ever even being as good as Mango Salsa, and that’s um... saying something.

 

[Peat]

Why are our chances so much higher than the Isles? They have the same point percentage assuming they win their game in hand.

Does Mccurdy use strength of schedule in his model too? Or other factors?

One possible factor that might be influencing things for us vs the Isles is that they are a team was a very high PDO and are bottom ten in a lot of possession metrics. A reversion to statistical norm would bury them. Ours is also pretty high and we're pretty average in our metrics, but we'd still be alive with a reversion to norm.

Particularly when you consider that both of our special teams units are top 10 while the Islanders special teams units are towards the bottom.

I edited this in after I made the original post, I view ZAR to be the new version of Tangradi. I don't know if he'll follow the same path, but I do think they're incredibly comparable as players in terms of strengths, weaknesses and play style.

Whether ZAR actually becomes a top-6 net front guy or a career AHLer remains to be seen, but I don't think he has a future as a 4th liner. It's the same deal as Tangradi, he's either on a top-9 scoring line or he's in the AHL.

This, although they use him too much as a 4th liner for me to agree he has no future there. He should have no future there though. He's rarely that good there - loses too many battles and isn't physically outstanding. But he'll pick up a lot of goals if you put him with talent because the one place he is an NHL talent is the way he clears up rubbish.

p.s. In light of Jiggy's post, I'll just clarify this in terms of likely future. I never actually saw Tangradi.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pretty bad comparison.

Tangradi was way more skilled and a finesse player in a big man’s body that they wanted to play a power fwd game.

ZAR is more of the Mango Salsa, Stone, Caputi ilk. Probably a little more physical than Mango was, but basically they didn’t do anything at all offensively except have good touch around the net.

I can’t see him ever even being as good as Mango Salsa, and that’s um... saying something.

This isn't true when talking about Tangradi in the pros. It is true when you look at his junior career, but the Penguins focused immensely on changing him into a net front guy/power forward. What resulted was a guy who was good around the net, but was super slow and didn't show much of the skill he had in juniors. Tangradi had lost whatever remaining skill game he had left by the time he broke into the NHL.

I specifically remember watching Tangradi and noting how vanilla he looked in the pros. By the time he made the NHL, all he had to offer was his net front play. ZAR isn't in the Caputi group, who just dominated lower levels based on his size and strength. ZAR is much more in the Tangradi mold of net front guy and vanilla everywhere else. Tangradi was supposed to be way more skilled than ZAR will ever be, but the Penguins did a hell of a job of beating that skill out of him in the minors. Just like they did a hell of a job beating the offense out of Despres in WBS.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Well one way or another, Oleksiak is getting in the line-up. Guessing Olli's injury has to do with the puck that hit his foot.

 

[Andy99]

Well one way or another, Oleksiak is getting in the line-up. Guessing Olli's injury has to do with the puck that hit his foot.

Both Olli and Rust were injured shot blocking....another reason I don’t like putting Sid and Jake on the pk if shot blocking is how Sully intends to defend....

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This isn't true when talking about Tangradi in the pros. It is true when you look at his junior career, but the Penguins focused immensely on changing him into a net front guy/power forward. What resulted was a guy who was good around the net, but was super slow and didn't show much of the skill he had in juniors. Tangradi had lost whatever remaining skill game he had left by the time he broke into the NHL.

I specifically remember watching Tangradi and noting how vanilla he looked in the pros. By the time he made the NHL, all he had to offer was his net front play.

AHL is pro hockey, and Tangradi was, and still is, very good at it because of his skill level. He’s a highly skilled guy teams forced to change his game and play like ZAR and it was pure stupidity. I’ll always believe the Pens botched his development big time, by forcing him to be a brain dead power fwd that played straight line hockey.

ZAR is only playing in the NHL because this org has it in their heads they need a Tom Wilson type, and it’s bananas to me they have their heads stuck in the past.

Mango was way better in front of the net, scored a lot of goals, and many of us kept saying he’d be out of the league soon... and within a few yrs he was playing for the Hamburg Freezers, because like ZAR, he had zero offensive abilities. Shit was obvious.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well one way or another, Oleksiak is getting in the line-up. Guessing Olli's injury has to do with the puck that hit his foot.

Hm. So, Riikola is going to get knocked out of the line-up now when Olli is healthy.

Greeeeeeeeeat.

 

[Peat]

ZAR is only playing in the NHL because this org has it in their heads they need a Tom Wilson type, and it’s bananas to me they have their heads stuck in the past.

Pray for Anthony Angello turning into a player.

 

[Empoleon8771]

AHL is pro hockey, and Tangradi was, and still is, very good at it because of his skill level. He’s a highly skilled guy teams forced to change his game and play like ZAR and it was pure stupidity. I’ll always believe the Pens botched his development big time, by forcing him to be a brain dead power fwd that played straight line hockey.

ZAR is only playing in the NHL because this org has it in their heads they need a Tom Wilson type, and it’s bananas to me they have their heads stuck in the past.

Mango was way better in front of the net, scored a lot of goals, and many of us kept saying he’d be out of the league soon... and within a few yrs he was playing for the Hamburg Freezers, because like ZAR, he has zero offensive abilities. **** was obvious.

I can agree with this, but because they did that, Tangardi ended up being extremely similar to ZAR. Tangradi shouldn't have ended up that way, but because of what the Penguins wanted him to turn into, he turned into that. I specifically remember watching Tangardi with Malkin in the NHL, he offered literally no skill at that point. All he could do was screen goalies and sometimes clean up garbage around the net.

I also super disagree with this, I have seen nothing that makes me think that they view ZAR as a Tom Wilson type of player. Idk, I think you're just projecting your feelings on ZAR to what the team thinks of ZAR. I think they view him as a safe 2-way player who can play all throughout the lineup and brings grit and defensive ability. What you think about that is one thing, but I don't see anything that makes me believe that he's in because they think they need a Tom Wilson type. No, Oleksiak is the guy that's in because they think they need a Tom Wilson type.

I was saying this in the off-season too, people need to differentiate their own opinions with the team's opinions. The same thing happened with Simon, although I remember you were a huge fan of Simon. People here thought that the team viewed guys like Sprong to be better than guys like Simon because the fans thought that Sprong was better than Simon. That obviously wasn't the case. Same thing applies with ZAR, ZAR is in the NHL over guys like DiPauli because they think he's better than DiPauli.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Pray for Anthony Angello turning into a player.

I am, trust me...

ZAR will hang around forever because they desperately want him to be the physical top six fwd they covet.

Good luck with that Pens.

I can agree with this, but because they did that, Tangardi ended up being extremely similar to ZAR. Tangradi shouldn't have ended up that way, but because of what the Penguins wanted him to turn into, he turned into that. I specifically remember watching Tangardi with Malkin in the NHL, he offered literally no skill at that point. All he could do was screen goalies and sometimes clean up garbage around the net.

I also super disagree with this, I have seen nothing that makes me think that they view ZAR as a Tom Wilson type of player. Idk, I think you're just projecting your feelings on ZAR to what the team thinks of ZAR. I think they view him as a safe 2-way player who can play all throughout the lineup and brings grit and defensive ability. What you think about that is one thing, but I don't see anything that makes me believe that he's in because they think they need a Tom Wilson type. No, Oleksiak is the guy that's in because they think they need a Tom Wilson type.

I was saying this in the off-season too, people need to differentiate their own opinions with the team's opinions. The same thing happened with Simon, although I remember you were a huge fan of Simon. People here thought that the team viewed guys like Sprong to be better than guys like Simon because the fans thought that Sprong was better than Simon. That obviously wasn't the case. Same thing applies with ZAR, ZAR is in the NHL over guys like DiPauli because they think he's better than DiPauli.

Nah, I’m projecting exactly what I was told they covet, and who they think ZAR is. And low and behold, look what’s happened... from the way he was brought up after not even playing that well in the A and having one big game used as an excuse to call him up, to the undeserving promotions and silly ice time he was gifted.

You probably think you are bringing some new kind of point or argument about a player like ZAR, but trust me man, I’ve had these convos over and over with people trying to defend players like him.

Mango apologists did the same shit... he scores though huh huh? Ya... how did that work out when he was playing for the Freezers?

Talent matters, always has and always will. If you can’t handle the puck well and skate poorly, it’s massive red flags. Dude can’t even win board battles either...

 

[Shady Machine]

This isn't true when talking about Tangradi in the pros. It is true when you look at his junior career, but the Penguins focused immensely on changing him into a net front guy/power forward. What resulted was a guy who was good around the net, but was super slow and didn't show much of the skill he had in juniors. Tangradi had lost whatever remaining skill game he had left by the time he broke into the NHL.

I specifically remember watching Tangradi and noting how vanilla he looked in the pros. By the time he made the NHL, all he had to offer was his net front play. ZAR isn't in the Caputi group, who just dominated lower levels based on his size and strength. ZAR is much more in the Tangradi mold of net front guy and vanilla everywhere else. Tangradi was supposed to be way more skilled than ZAR will ever be, but the Penguins did a hell of a job of beating that skill out of him in the minors. Just like they did a hell of a job beating the offense out of Despres in WBS.

That's what they wanted Tangradi to be, not what he was good at. ZAR is legitimately good around the net. That's his forte, although it's questionable if he will be good enough at it to consistently produce in the pros.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Probably means Rust is a short term or they don’t wont to move Simon away from Geno just yet

ZAR has looked best with Sid in his time here. He seems effective with him if not unspectacular.

I think they probably want to see if Simon can work as one of our LW's asap. If he can't, we really need to add a LW. If he can, we probably still should.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's what they wanted Tangradi to be, not what he was good at. ZAR is legitimately good around the net. That's his forte, although it's questionable if he will be good enough at it to consistently produce in the pros.

Eh, I actually thought Tangradi was decent as a net front guy. Granted, when I say "decent", I don't mean anything that special. I do think that's the second biggest reason Tangradi busted, after his comically bad skating. It's like when they converted (or tried to convert) Pouliot from an OFD to a 2-way defenseman, he was decent defensively by the end of it. He had just lost a vast majority of his offensive talent and he was only decent defensively.

Looking back on it, the Penguins had a vast history of mismanaging prospects from like 2010-2014. That may explain why their draft picks ended up so bad from 2006-2009, they were horribly mismanaging those guys in the minors.

 

[Ogrezilla]

AHL is pro hockey, and Tangradi was, and still is, very good at it because of his skill level. He’s a highly skilled guy teams forced to change his game and play like ZAR and it was pure stupidity. I’ll always believe the Pens botched his development big time, by forcing him to be a brain dead power fwd that played straight line hockey.

ZAR is only playing in the NHL because this org has it in their heads they need a Tom Wilson type, and it’s bananas to me they have their heads stuck in the past.

Mango was way better in front of the net, scored a lot of goals, and many of us kept saying he’d be out of the league soon... and within a few yrs he was playing for the Hamburg Freezers, because like ZAR, he had zero offensive abilities. **** was obvious.

okay I completely forget who mango salsa is, help me out

 

[Empoleon8771]

okay I completely forget who mango salsa is, help me out

I'm glad you said something because I didn't want to

 

[wej20]

okay I completely forget who mango salsa is, help me out

Michel Ouellet, I think.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

okay I completely forget who mango salsa is, help me out

Michel Ouellet.