OT: All Purpose NCAA Football Thread (2014-15)

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FlyersFan61290

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Jul 13, 2010
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I think the NCAA's treatment of PSU was more then justifiable. Supposedly actions weren't taken by the higher ups against Sandusky to protect the football program/team. I think therefore the program is what should then suffer, after guilty parties are fired and arrested of course. In other words, what you foolishly tried to protect will now suffer because you didn't do the right thing.
 
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Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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I think the NCAA's treatment of PSU was more then justifiable. Supposedly actions weren't taken by the higher ups against Sandusky to protect the football program/team. I think therefore the program is what should then suffer, after guilty parties are fired and arrested of course. In other words, what you foolishly tried to protect will now suffer because you didn't do the right thing.

I just don't agree or understand why you guys think that. Nothing that happened is the actual football program itself or the athletes fault, not even the cover-up. Everyone involved should be fired/fined/arrested but the athletes and fans are the ones most being punished the most by sanctioning the football program.

I'd also just like to make it clear that I couldn't care less about any of this. I'm not a Penn State fan and I just absolutely couldn't care less about college football overall. I'm only debating this because I'm trying to understand why you guys feel the way you do and what the logic was behind the punishment to begin with.
 

FlyersFan61290

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Jul 13, 2010
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Philadelphia
I just don't agree or understand why you guys think that. Nothing that happened is the actual football program itself or the athletes fault, not even the cover-up. Everyone involved should be fired/fined/arrested but the athletes and fans are the ones most being punished the most by sanctioning the football program.

I'd also just like to make it clear that I couldn't care less about any of this. I'm not a Penn State fan and I just absolutely couldn't care less about college football overall. I'm only debating this because I'm trying to understand why you guys feel the way you do and what the logic was behind the punishment to begin with.

You may not agree with it but it's not hard to understand. What they tried to protect was specifically targeted and I take no issue with that because it would be impossible to get everyone involved, there just isn't enough information.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

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I just don't agree or understand why you guys think that. Nothing that happened is the actual football program itself or the athletes fault, not even the cover-up. Everyone involved should be fired/fined/arrested but the athletes and fans are the ones most being punished the most by sanctioning the football program.

I'd also just like to make it clear that I couldn't care less about any of this. I'm not a Penn State fan and I just absolutely couldn't care less about college football overall. I'm only debating this because I'm trying to understand why you guys feel the way you do and what the logic was behind the punishment to begin with.

The problem is this: the university AND the football team either knew or should have known what was going on. If they knew and did nothing (or very little, as it has been alleged). Ultimately, the university is responsible for what goes on with its sports teams, etc. But the sports team shoulders blame as well. Sandusky was essential second in command to Paterno. For decades he used PSU facilities and his PSU connections to do what he did. How can you say that is not a football team problem? They don't have to have oversight of their employees and staff? They can do whatever they want under the PSU Football umbrella, so long as they aren't breaking recruiting violations?

Maybe the NCAA should allow the schools to handle these matters internally? That works pretty well right. This isn't a football issue or a sports issue, let PSU just handle this internally. Oh wait. PSU did that by forcing him to retire and letting him continue to use the facilities to molest children. That is why the NCAA had to step in. If you leave it up to the schools, they will cover it up so as to not hurt their reputations.
 

flyershockey

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Oct 10, 2006
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I see a lot of visor throwing in Steve Spurrier's future, as Gurley runs all over USC on Saturday.
 

JDinkalage Morgoone

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If I'm looking to get into college ball, how do you recommend I start? I don't really have a team, I went to Miami of Ohio and the games are neither televised, nor would I watch that poor product, as I didn't really when I went there.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

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If I'm looking to get into college ball, how do you recommend I start? I don't really have a team, I went to Miami of Ohio and the games are neither televised, nor would I watch that poor product, as I didn't really when I went there.

I'd say go with your closest power conference school if your alma mater isn't floating your boat. If you have the BTN they have good coverage of the Big Ten schools, so if you are a PSU or RU fan (in waiting) that's a good place to get info on the rest of the conference.
 

JDinkalage Morgoone

U of South Flurrida
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What type of football do you like? High scoring or defense?

Growing up during the Jim Johnson era of the Eagles, I love defense.

I'd say go with your closest power conference school if your alma mater isn't floating your boat. If you have the BTN they have good coverage of the Big Ten schools, so if you are a PSU or RU fan (in waiting) that's a good place to get info on the rest of the conference.

I have never liked Penn State.
 

Karma

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Feb 21, 2012
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Go Ducks :nod:

It's a shame I don't get the Pac-12 Network so I can't watch them put up 60+ on Wyoming this weekend. I'd have to find a stream online.
 

flyershockey

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Oct 10, 2006
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Growing up during the Jim Johnson era of the Eagles, I love defense.

Stanford or VT always have pretty good defenses, and most of their games are televised nationally.

I'm like you. I went to a CUSA school and the quality of football really doesn't come close to the power conferences. I root for my school to do well and I still try to go to games when I can get tickets, but it's rather boring unless I've been tailgaiting for a couple of hours beforehand.

I like UGA, but that's mostly due to my GF's family following Georgia football like a religion.
 

Hollywood Cannon

I'm Away From My Desk
Jul 17, 2007
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Growing up during the Jim Johnson era of the Eagles, I love defense.

Damnit, haha. Much like the NFL good defense is dying in the NCAA. High flying offenses are prevalent in the NCAA now with teams like Oregon and Baylor, among others.

Alabama was a team in a conference (SEC) with a big time defense in recent years that would be entertaining and stout but it looks like the SEC is getting away from defense anytime I watch.

How I would get into it is to watch any rivalry games each week or high ranked matchups. This past weekend had some great games with USC and Stanford going down to the wire, Oregon/Michigan St was a battle of Top 10 teams, and Virginia Tech taking down Ohio State.

My favorite conference to watch is the PAC-12.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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You may not agree with it but it's not hard to understand. What they tried to protect was specifically targeted and I take no issue with that because it would be impossible to get everyone involved, there just isn't enough information.

So because it's impossible to get everyone involved it's OK to just punish the football players and fans? That makes no sense. Neither of those two groups is responsible for preventing this, responsible for the action itself, or responsible for covering it up, and yet their the ones being punished the most for multiple other peoples serious mistakes. Someone benefiting from corruption isn't the same thing as being a part of it, especially if they don't even know that they're benefiting.

The problem is this: the university AND the football team either knew or should have known what was going on. If they knew and did nothing (or very little, as it has been alleged). Ultimately, the university is responsible for what goes on with its sports teams, etc. But the sports team shoulders blame as well. Sandusky was essential second in command to Paterno. For decades he used PSU facilities and his PSU connections to do what he did. How can you say that is not a football team problem? They don't have to have oversight of their employees and staff? They can do whatever they want under the PSU Football umbrella, so long as they aren't breaking recruiting violations?

Maybe the NCAA should allow the schools to handle these matters internally? That works pretty well right. This isn't a football issue or a sports issue, let PSU just handle this internally. Oh wait. PSU did that by forcing him to retire and letting him continue to use the facilities to molest children. That is why the NCAA had to step in. If you leave it up to the schools, they will cover it up so as to not hurt their reputations.

That's what I keep saying, the people in charge are responsible for what happens on the team. What happened was their fault because of covering it up or being ignorant of it, but either way it's on them. So those are the people that need deserve to be punished. The guys playing on the football team had nothing to do with it, like I said above benefiting from the cover-up isn't the same thing as being a part of it and it's not enough to deserve punishment. If PSU only forced him to retire and let him continue to use the facilities then whoever was responsible for that should be punished.

The way I see it, this is what's happening here.

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Hollywood Cannon

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While the Penn State situation is different, i'd venture to say that more than 80% of sanctions punish people that weren't involved with the situation (Reggie Bush and USC, Chip Kelly and Oregon,...etc).

They need to be handed out though, just like with the Devils getting their pick back this year because there is a new owner.
 

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
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Philadelphia, PA
While the Penn State situation is different, i'd venture to say that more than 80% of sanctions punish people that weren't involved with the situation (Reggie Bush and USC, Chip Kelly and Oregon,...etc).

Although he was a project QB & likely never to see significant time in those games anyway but I like how the NFL honored Pryor's suspension from OSU's tattoo scandal.

It at least sets a precedent for future players looking to tuck tail & run away from something they created.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

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That's what I keep saying, the people in charge are responsible for what happens on the team. What happened was their fault because of covering it up or being ignorant of it, but either way it's on them. So those are the people that need deserve to be punished. The guys playing on the football team had nothing to do with it, like I said above benefiting from the cover-up isn't the same thing as being a part of it and it's not enough to deserve punishment. If PSU only forced him to retire and let him continue to use the facilities then whoever was responsible for that should be punished.

That argument doesn't hold water. Is it ever ok to sanction a football team? Only for recruiting violations?

Even recruiting violations hurt unintended parties. Is that ok because it is "football related?" And if that is "football related" in the sense that it is an attempt to illegally improve or get an unfair advantage over the competition so it is somehow ok to have innocent parties harmed by punishment...why isn't a football team bungling a child molestation case not "football related?" By failing to monitor the team, the team had the advantage of not getting this black eye twenty years ago or however long ago it was that this started (or that they had knowledge of these accusations and chose to, you know, tell Jerry Sandusky that he can't coach any more, but he can still hang around and use PSU facilities).

It sucks that current/future students and athletes suffered for the sins of the higher ups (some of whom were football team staff or Athletic Department higher ups). But guess what, this sends the message that universities across the country have to do a better job monitor things or else face stiff consequences. Otherwise, again, the message sent is "We don't care what you do or how terrible your school/athletic department/team is at making sure your representatives, who are our representatives, act in a manner that doesn't run counter to what the NCAA stands for."
 

BackToTheBrierePatch

Nope not today.
Feb 19, 2003
65,861
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the only people who get punished are the players and fans. **** that happened 5 years ago should not affect a kid who agreed to come to the school 1 or 2 years ago.
kids get punished but the idiots who were responsible for the foolishness still have a job and get paid.
yep. God Bless America.


EDIT: I am not necessarily talking about PSU. Just the NCAA in general how they handle things. The NCAA is corrupt anyway.
 

JDinkalage Morgoone

U of South Flurrida
Oct 7, 2008
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the only people who get punished are the players and fans. **** that happened 5 years ago should not affect a kid who agreed to come to the school 1 or 2 years ago.
kids get punished but the idiots who were responsible for the foolishness still have a job and get paid.
yep. God Bless America.


EDIT: I am not necessarily talking about PSU. Just the NCAA in general how they handle things. The NCAA is corrupt anyway.

I get what you are saying... these kids did get screwed that they went to PSU but they had the full option to go elsewhere.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
155,161
Pennsylvania
That argument doesn't hold water. Is it ever ok to sanction a football team? Only for recruiting violations?

Even recruiting violations hurt unintended parties. Is that ok because it is "football related?" And if that is "football related" in the sense that it is an attempt to illegally improve or get an unfair advantage over the competition so it is somehow ok to have innocent parties harmed by punishment...why isn't a football team bungling a child molestation case not "football related?" By failing to monitor the team, the team had the advantage of not getting this black eye twenty years ago or however long ago it was that this started (or that they had knowledge of these accusations and chose to, you know, tell Jerry Sandusky that he can't coach any more, but he can still hang around and use PSU facilities).

It sucks that current/future students and athletes suffered for the sins of the higher ups (some of whom were football team staff or Athletic Department higher ups). But guess what, this sends the message that universities across the country have to do a better job monitor things or else face stiff consequences. Otherwise, again, the message sent is "We don't care what you do or how terrible your school/athletic department/team is at making sure your representatives, who are our representatives, act in a manner that doesn't run counter to what the NCAA stands for."

Sanction a football team for offenses that are football related, like performance enhancing drugs, recruiting violations, and whatever else is directly related to helping the team win games by cheating. Someone committing a criminal action and then being protected by higher ups isn't a directly football offense.

I'm not saying punishing people is wrong whenever an unintended party is effected, because then there would never be a punishment for anything, but this isn't the same situation. The people being directly punished are the students and fans, the people who should be directly held responsible are the collateral. If they're still at the school then they're still getting paid and they still have their jobs, so a bowl ban is hardly effecting them, and certainly not effecting them nearly as much as the students who only have this short window to play college football. And it wasn't the football team who bungled a child molestation case, it was the higher ups, the athletes had nothing to do with it and they're being the most effected. If the NCAA isn't able to go after the people who protected Sandusky then they're not in a position to be handing out punishments. The police and whoever was investigating it was.

Whatever, there's nothing to be gained from arguing this back and forth forever. I couldn't give a **** less about the entire situation because it doesn't effect me the slightest bit.
 
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