OT: All-Purpose Expos Return Topic (Part II)

[LeHab]

I remember the above piece being quoted in a previous version of this thread, to which I had provided the following reply: OT: - All-Purpose Expos Return Speculation Topic

We're not going to get a reliable legal opinion out of a sports piece based on generalities.

I love and respect Macramella, but he doesn't practice law in Florida.

Any MLB team that is facing relocation has recourses. Reality is that we don't really know how courts will deal with them.

What I do know is that the jurisdiction of the courts that are designated to hear a lawsuit is important. Florida courts are not NY courts. There is a reason a significant number of major contracts choose NY as their jurisdiction to hear litigation -- NY courts are much more inclined to award high damages and to not detract from the letter of an agreement. Macramella doesn't draw a distinction, nor does he provide background info on this critical aspect. He's arguing the letter of the agreement but how it is going to be interpreted and disposed of is a whole other ballgame.

Also, assuming Florida law applies, there are precedents from sports law and other related industries that could help circumscribe the matter. Of course, there is no legal opinion provided from the firm Macramalla works for cause they weren't mandated to draw one up. There'd be no money in it for them evidently since Expos potential ownership has not retained them. So Macramalla resorts to general principles of contract law to come up with general guidelines.

Bottom line -- Tampa remains a relocation target. And a potential ownership group won't have to wait until 2027 to make it happen. Damages can be quantified and negotiated upon as a cost of doing business. Macramalla's piece doesn't change that in the least.
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I don't think anything has changed right now to merit a different reply.

We're only going to find out how serious the currently perceived hurdles are when a relocation decision will be imminent.

I'm sure everyone has a price and there would be ways to reloc no matter what existing agreements are in place. However given those potential extra hurdles and no apparent, at least openly, short term intention from current Tampa owners to sell & reloc I think the chances are low.

The whole lease situation is why I suspect Bronfman was exploring a shared ownership to play some games in Tampa and Montreal until the lease was up.

 

[Runner77]

I'm sure everyone has a price and there would be ways to reloc no matter what existing agreements are in place. However given those potential extra hurdles and no apparent, at least openly, short term intention from current Tampa owners to sell & reloc I think the chances are low.

The whole lease situation is why I suspect Bronfman was exploring a shared ownership to play some games in Tampa and Montreal until the lease was up.

Every potential relocation brings its lot of entanglements. Maybe that’s also why we don’t see too many.

I read somewhere that Tampa’s owner (I forget if he’s a majority or sole owner) is looking to keep an ownership stake if the team is relocated. I wonder how that might play out.

 

[LeHab]

I think so too, the Orioles are trash but it would hurt so much to see them relocated.

Orioles owners were the only MLB team who voted against Expos relocation. I wish them nothing but the best.

 

[Runner77]

Orioles owners were the only MLB team who voted against Expos relocation. I wish them nothing but the best.

Unlike our beloved Blue Jays who voted in favor of contraction and relocation.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Expos still had a somewhat decent attendance after 1994 (18-20K). The fatal blow seems to be the Pedro Martinez and Henry Rodriguez trades before the 1998 season (and the team being finally unable to stay competitive despite all the firesales).

A lot of factors went into it I would imagine. But paying players in USD and with a 18-20k average attendance with no real huge tv deal (like teams have today) affected the bottom line.

Anybody remember what kind of yearly profits or losses they had back when?

 

[GoodKiwi]

Which ones have you been to? How would you rank?

I've been to

- Olympic Stadium
- Skydome
- Fenway Park
- Old Yankee Stadium
- Petco Park
- Wrigley Field

In terms of best place to watch a game, nothing comes close to Fenway. In terms of just a the nicest stadium to walk through without being cramped and things not smelling kind of musky due to their age, Petco is incredible. I'm going back in July.

Here's my go at it. It's late here and I'm drunk, so I didn't think too much about it.

1. PNC Park (PIT)
2. AT&T Park (SF)
3. Dodger Stadium (LA)
4. Wrigley Field (CHI)
5. Fenway (BOS)
6. Nationals Park (WAS)
7. Citi Field (NYC)
8. Yankee Stadium (NYC)
9. Angel Stadium (ANA)
10. Guaranteed Rate Field (CHI)
11. Rogers Centre (TOR)

The park names are off the top of my head. Not sure if all are correct.

I'm very much decided on the order of 1-5. I think there's a noticeable drop-off from 1 to 2 and, again, from 3 to 4.

It's pretty much a crapshoot after that. The list is very interchangeable between 6-10. I've been to both NYC parks so many times that I've probably developed a bias against them both. They don't feel like anything special to me, especially the new Yankees park.

#11 is the worst one without a doubt though.

From the inactive parks I've been to the old one in ATL (Turner Field) maybe 20-30 times since I used to live in the city. It was a generic and non-memorable place. Also to the old Yankees stadium a few of times. That place was better than their new one IMO.

While I've been to SD many, many times (one of my best friends lives there now), I have never visited Petco park. I'll put that on my list of things to do next time I'm in town.

 

[Le Tricolore]

Here's my go at it. It's late here and I'm drunk, so I didn't think too much about it.

1. PNC Park (PIT)
2. AT&T Park (SF)
3. Dodger Stadium (LA)
4. Wrigley Field (CHI)
5. Fenway (BOS)
6. Nationals Park (WAS)
7. Citi Field (NYC)
8. Yankee Stadium (NYC)
9. Angel Stadium (ANA)
10. Guaranteed Rate Field (CHI)
11. Rogers Centre (TOR)

The park names are off the top of my head. Not sure if all are correct.

I'm very much decided on the order of 1-5. I think there's a noticeable drop-off from 1 to 2 and, again, from 3 to 4.

It's pretty much a crapshoot after that. The list is very interchangeable between 6-10. I've been to both NYC parks so many times that I've probably developed a bias against them both. They don't feel like anything special to me, especially the new Yankees park.

#11 is the worst one without a doubt though.

From the inactive parks I've been to the old one in ATL (Turner Field) maybe 20-30 times since I used to live in the city. It was a generic and non-memorable place. Also to the old Yankees stadium a few of times. That place was better than their new one IMO.

While I've been to SD many, many times (one of my best friends lives there now), I have never visited Petco park. I'll put that on my list of things to do next time I'm in town.

I'm surprised you'd put Dodger Stadium over Fenway. I've been to Dodger Stadium in the off-season and had a look at the field. It has a nice view, but didn't look like anything special. I guess the atmosphere was fun there.

 

[ahmedou]

Who voted against our relocation to Washington?

 

[Le Tricolore]

Who voted against our relocation to Washington?

I don't think anyone did. I know the contraction vote they had was 28-2 with the Expos and Twins voting against their own contraction.

 

[GoodKiwi]

I'm surprised you'd put Dodger Stadium over Fenway. I've been to Dodger Stadium in the off-season and had a look at the field. It has a nice view, but didn't look like anything special. I guess the atmosphere was fun there.

I think the in-game atmosphere is a part of us judging our experience at any park, isn't it? And yes it was. Both times I was there it was packed, my seats were excellent and the games were competitive. One time I even put an earbud in my ear and enjoyed listening to Vin Scully calling the game.

I am not a big fan of Fenway. I think it....smells? Like literally, when it is rainy you have some moldy smell lingering around in the hallways. The on-field experience is pretty great though, because you feel like you're right on top of the players when sitting in certain parts of the park. Red Sox fans are very obnoxious and drunk most of the time.

 

[Le Tricolore]

I think the in-game atmosphere is a part of us judging our experience at any park, isn't it? And yes it was. Both times I was there it was packed, my seats were excellent and the games were competitive. One time I even put an earbud in my ear and enjoyed listening to Vin Scully calling the game.

I am not a big fan of Fenway. I think it....smells? Like literally, when it is rainy you have some moldy smell lingering around in the hallways. The on-field experience is pretty great though, because you feel like you're right on top of the players when sitting in certain parts of the park. Red Sox fans are very obnoxious and drunk most of the time.

Last time I was at Fenway was literally the same day as the Bruins' Stanley Cup parade.

So... yeah. They can be annoying.

 

[Runner77]

I am not a big fan of Fenway. I think it....smells? Like literally, when it is rainy you have some moldy smell lingering around in the hallways. The on-field experience is pretty great though, because you feel like you're right on top of the players when sitting in certain parts of the park. Red Sox fans are very obnoxious and drunk most of the time.

Reminds me of the time I bought tickes to watch a Bruins game at the ole Boston Gahdens and it too had mixture of musty smells and other variations of moldy whiffs you'd get depending on which part of the arena you were sitting. I bought my tickets on the phone, site unseen. It was before the internet days so I ended up with a seat that was half-obstructed by a large cement support column.

Best part was when exiting the place, the moldy odors got intertwined with a strong aroma of hotdogs and sausages. Not exactly something I wanted to have my stomach experience.

 

[peate]

Remember the Forum, with all the spliff smokers?

 

[LeHab]

In an interview today Olympic Parc (RIO) boss reported a rumor Tampa may play 20 games in Montreal next season. Could be announced in September.

https://www.rds.ca/videos/baseball/mlb/mlb-a-montreal-la-situation-fait-jaser-a-tampa-3.1323559
20 matchs du baseball majeur au Stade olympique en 2020?

Wouldn't put much credibility there but should it happen would Montreal fans show up to cheer a team that isn't really theirs? Some baseball is better than no baseball but I don't think this would be a big success.

 

[Runner77]

In an interview today Olympic Parc (RIO) boss reported a rumor Tampa may play 20 games in Montreal next season. Could be announced in September.

https://www.rds.ca/videos/baseball/mlb/mlb-a-montreal-la-situation-fait-jaser-a-tampa-3.1323559
20 matchs du baseball majeur au Stade olympique en 2020?

Wouldn't put much credibility there but should it happen would Montreal fans show up to cheer a team that isn't really theirs? Some baseball is better than no baseball but I don't think this would be a big success.

Reverse Puerto Rico Expos syndrome.

 

[BLONG7]

Reverse Puerto Rico Expos syndrome.

I almost forgot, or tried to block out when that happened to the Expos...man that hurt...it was around 35 games down in Puerto Rico, that was a serious message, that MLB was moving the Spos.

Now this, it could happen to Tampa and it's Montreal playing the host, wow..............

 

[JianYang]

Here's my go at it. It's late here and I'm drunk, so I didn't think too much about it.

1. PNC Park (PIT)
2. AT&T Park (SF)
3. Dodger Stadium (LA)
4. Wrigley Field (CHI)
5. Fenway (BOS)
6. Nationals Park (WAS)
7. Citi Field (NYC)
8. Yankee Stadium (NYC)
9. Angel Stadium (ANA)
10. Guaranteed Rate Field (CHI)
11. Rogers Centre (TOR)

The park names are off the top of my head. Not sure if all are correct.

I'm very much decided on the order of 1-5. I think there's a noticeable drop-off from 1 to 2 and, again, from 3 to 4.

It's pretty much a crapshoot after that. The list is very interchangeable between 6-10. I've been to both NYC parks so many times that I've probably developed a bias against them both. They don't feel like anything special to me, especially the new Yankees park.

#11 is the worst one without a doubt though.

From the inactive parks I've been to the old one in ATL (Turner Field) maybe 20-30 times since I used to live in the city. It was a generic and non-memorable place. Also to the old Yankees stadium a few of times. That place was better than their new one IMO.

While I've been to SD many, many times (one of my best friends lives there now), I have never visited Petco park. I'll put that on my list of things to do next time I'm in town.

I was very impressed with Yankee stadium, but maybe that's because it was a playoff elimination game against the red sox.

I value atmosphere and ambience above all. Those fans can really amp it up.

 

[Runner77]

Things aren't getting any better in Tampa. Even a $5 night won't fill the stands.

 

[MasterDecoy]

I don’t get it, Tampamenians (that’s what I’m going with, don’t argue) fill out the bolt’s games. So why can’t they manage decent attendance? They got the money, there’s enough people in the area, they like sports....

 

[Runner77]

I don’t get it, Tampamenians (that’s what I’m going with, don’t argue) fill out the bolt’s games. So why can’t they manage decent attendance? They got the money, there’s enough people in the area, they like sports....

They got insulted that someone dubbed them Tampamenians, so they decided not to boycott Ray games.

 

[Phil Parent]

Things aren't getting any better in Tampa. Even a $5 night won't fill the stands.

Were hot dogs sold for 1$? Gotta have 1$ hot dogs to get all the hobos.

 

[MTL-rules]

Man, sucks for the few Tampa fans, but getting the Rays to move to Mtl would be a dream come true... This team is good and their farm is even better.

At least, when we had trouble getting over 10k in the stand the Spos were awful... Here they have a first place team... Looks good for us and very bad for Tampa.

 

[peate]

Bring the Rays to Montreal and until the stadium is built, nobody's gonna give a damn about the Big O. It'll be packed like the good ole days.

 

[Runner77]

Bring the Rays to Montreal and until the stadium is built, nobody's gonna give a damn about the Big O. It'll be packed like the good ole days.

No firesales, no Brochu, competent and motivated ownership, baseball trades only, the Rays's quality farm team, a baseball-only stadium being built while the Big O games are taking place and easy access and egress to the new location from downtown and beyond.

Just bring back Dave Van Horne before he retires and all the elements will be in place.

 

[MasterDecoy]

the blues are packing the baseball stadium and the enterprise center.

meanwhile in tampa...