OT: All-Purpose Expos Return Topic (Part II)

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by ahmedou, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Chili

    Chili Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Messages:
    5,850
    Likes Received:
    855
    Trophy Points:
    194
    Location:
    Sugar Mountain
    I've always believed the Expos will be back at some point, when that happens I just hope there is some type of cap and...they shorten the time of games. The NHL found a way, baseball could too if they wanted to I believe.
     
    Runner77 likes this.
  2. angusyoung

    angusyoung Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    649
    Trophy Points:
    99
    Occupation:
    self employed?
    Location:
    Finakouda
    It was pathetic that Montreal lost the club. MLB should have monitored what was happening and adjusted things to make it more viable,it wasn't just overnight! I see the games are much longer now,slower for sure. Don't recall the length of games when I used to attend the Expos back then and I used to go to a good 50 or more per season.

    I believe the NHL is actually lengthening games as opposed to the inference suggested,but not really sure,will only increase now that more reviews will be happening.
     
  3. Chili

    Chili Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Messages:
    5,850
    Likes Received:
    855
    Trophy Points:
    194
    Location:
    Sugar Mountain
    If you ever watch an NHL game from the ~1970's, 1980's etc when the puck was frozen along the boards, it was an almost automatic whistle. Now they make them play it out. Same with offsides, now they can 'tag up'. They probably will add more video review, we'll see how that goes.

    MLB wanted a new stadium in Montreal that would generate more revenue when that didn't happen the Expos were doomed. MLB games now are average of over three hours. To be honest, I don't recall the length at the end either, just that they seemed much longer then when I started following the game.
     
  4. angusyoung

    angusyoung Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    649
    Trophy Points:
    99
    Occupation:
    self employed?
    Location:
    Finakouda
    I certainly do recall games from back then,most games ended up under 2 1/2 hours. It's judgement call blowing the whistle on grinding on the boards,very tiring too!.lol.
     
    Runner77 likes this.
  5. Victorius

    Victorius Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    9,104
    Likes Received:
    2,648
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Do you think a new ball park in the TB area will bring more fans to their games ?
     
  6. Habaneros

    Habaneros Habs Cup champs 2010

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,369
    Likes Received:
    3,576
    Trophy Points:
    175
    didnt the Flordia Marlins get a brand new park.... how's the attendance there?lol avg about 9800 fan a game...had attendance as low as 6000 recently...


    They got the worst attendance in MLB

    That was a brand new park
     
  7. Victorius

    Victorius Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    9,104
    Likes Received:
    2,648
    Trophy Points:
    111
    The Loria family did the same trick to Marlins fans than they did with Expos' ones: trade every single good young star players they had and kill the interest.
     
    Runner77 likes this.
  8. Runner77

    Runner77 **********************************************

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    47,867
    Likes Received:
    47,748
    Trophy Points:
    215
    This is exactly what killed the Expos. They didn't have to win all the time but at least give the fans an opportunity to root for a player in his prime.

    Brochu did the same thing. Just when it came time to buy out a player's FA years, he'd ship them out and replace them with unknowns. Rinse and repeat.
     
  9. BLONG7

    BLONG7 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2002
    Messages:
    23,229
    Likes Received:
    4,838
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Home Page:
    Brochu, Loria and Samson...........the 3 stooges killed MLB in Montreal, and Bud Selig helped them do it.........brutal.

    Can't wait for the day, we hear there will be MLB returning!!! It will happen. Hopefully this time, the fans will have a reason to return, and stay engaged.
     
    Justin11, Pickles and Runner77 like this.
  10. LeHab

    LeHab Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    12,734
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Don't know, at least in Montreal bandwagoners would come out when the team was doing well. On the other hand thanks to revenue sharing and Tampa running a low payroll tight ship they are making profits even with low attendance so there is no pressure to sell.
     
  11. LeHab

    LeHab Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    12,734
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    Trophy Points:
    186
    At least Marlins won 2 WS despite Loria. Jeter group did the latest fire sale trading Stanton, Yelich and others.
     
  12. Pompeius Magnus

    Pompeius Magnus Registered User

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    10,743
    Likes Received:
    2,431
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Historian/archivist
    Location:
    Kanata ,ON
    Yet Jeter complains about how they should somehow be much better this year !
     
  13. GoodKiwi

    GoodKiwi Don't drink & root

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    16,082
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    Trophy Points:
    169
    I wholeheartedly agree that the Rays relocation is highly unlikely before the arena lease expires. Not sure why so many people project the Rays moving up to Montreal as some sort of an inevitability.

    Since you seem to be well educated on the subject, let me ask you a couple questions because I'm curious to hear your opinion on them.

    1. How likely do you think an MLB expansion is within, say, the next 5-7 years?

    2. What do you think about the A's chances of relocating?
     
  14. LeHab

    LeHab Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    12,734
    Likes Received:
    2,285
    Trophy Points:
    186
    I'm definitely not well educated but hey we all play armchair GMs and coaches so we can play armchair owners too. :)

    I think Montreal media are painting a rosier picture of a reloc to grab attention and sell clicks. When you research around outside of what local media write we don't see many indicators of a likely short term move.

    1. Don't know, here is a good article on why Rays are not likely to relocate before lease runs out.

    The Tampa Bay Rays Are Not Moving To Montreal Anytime Soon

    they actually have a more prohibitive Use Agreement rather than a normal lease.

    2. As for A's haven't followed them much. With Raiders leaving for Vegas and GSW moving to the other side of Bay Area how desperate are owners/city/local fans to keep at least one franchise home?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  15. Runner77

    Runner77 **********************************************

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    47,867
    Likes Received:
    47,748
    Trophy Points:
    215
    I remember the above piece being quoted in a previous version of this thread, to which I had provided the following reply: OT: - All-Purpose Expos Return Speculation Topic

    We're not going to get a reliable legal opinion out of a sports piece based on generalities.

    I love and respect Macramella, but he doesn't practice law in Florida.

    Any MLB team that is facing relocation has recourses. Reality is that we don't really know how courts will deal with them.

    What I do know is that the jurisdiction of the courts that are designated to hear a lawsuit is important. Florida courts are not NY courts. There is a reason a significant number of major contracts choose NY as their jurisdiction to hear litigation -- NY courts are much more inclined to award high damages and to not detract from the letter of an agreement. Macramella doesn't draw a distinction, nor does he provide background info on this critical aspect. He's arguing the letter of the agreement but how it is going to be interpreted and disposed of is a whole other ballgame.

    Also, assuming Florida law applies, there are precedents from sports law and other related industries that could help circumscribe the matter. Of course, there is no legal opinion provided from the firm Macramalla works for cause they weren't mandated to draw one up. There'd be no money in it for them evidently since Expos potential ownership has not retained them. So Macramalla resorts to general principles of contract law to come up with general guidelines.

    Bottom line -- Tampa remains a relocation target. And a potential ownership group won't have to wait until 2027 to make it happen. Damages can be quantified and negotiated upon as a cost of doing business. Macramalla's piece doesn't change that in the least.
    I don't think anything has changed right now to merit a different reply.

    We're only going to find out how serious the currently perceived hurdles are when a relocation decision will be imminent.
     
    TooLegitToQuit likes this.
  16. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Trophy Points:
    152
    Occupation:
    Civil Engineering
    Location:
    East Coast
    I think teams like Seattle and Tampa might sell but they likely are selling for a healthy profit. So your estimate might not be too far off. Why would they sell their teams for cheaper than what expansion fee would be?
     
  17. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Trophy Points:
    152
    Occupation:
    Civil Engineering
    Location:
    East Coast
    How long is Tampa stadium lease? Tampa is the logical team to move due to the poor attendance, the division they play in and Montreal fitting well based on location. Tampa has had very good teams over the years and the fans still have a hard time showing up.

    As far as a new expansion team in the MLB? Possible if they feel all teams are healthy of have the ability to be a good fit where they are at

    Edit: I looked into the lease and it appears it ends in 2028. Looks like it's very difficult to get out of that lease without forking out a buy out payment. Based on what I read, it's anywhere north of $20M. If the team wants to sell, why not just add that cost in the purchase price?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  18. Le Tricolore

    Le Tricolore Boo! BOOOO!

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    39,600
    Likes Received:
    4,599
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Montreal
    Which ones have you been to? How would you rank?

    I've been to

    - Olympic Stadium
    - Skydome
    - Fenway Park
    - Old Yankee Stadium
    - Petco Park
    - Wrigley Field

    In terms of best place to watch a game, nothing comes close to Fenway. In terms of just a the nicest stadium to walk through without being cramped and things not smelling kind of musky due to their age, Petco is incredible. I'm going back in July.
     
  19. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Trophy Points:
    152
    Occupation:
    Civil Engineering
    Location:
    East Coast
    The article said it's 2021 at the earliest and the lease runs out in 2028. Things I got from the article you posted and some questions...

    1) The buyout cost to relocate in somewhere in Tampa Bay. $3M per year from 19-22 and $2M per year from 23-26 but no mention from 27-28? So to relocate in Tampa Bay, they agreed on this buy out cost or was that already in the lease somewhere? That would be north of $20M and in another part of the article it said the city of St. Petersburg would say they are owed $200M if the team moves to another city. Seems like this would be anywhere from $20M - $200M to move.

    2) I think that if they move before the lease is up, they will battle in court at what is the fair buy out cost. I imagine the judge will factor in the lack of attendance and reduce the amount to some degree? Lets say this happens in 2-4 years and the buy out cost is somewhere around $100M. The franchise is worth $1B right? Would $100M be a major problem when you are likely buying the team for north of $1.5M anyways? I guess that's like $2B CAD.

    3) The other option is current owner Sternberg partners up with Bronfman? Any talk about this?

    4) What is the rumored cost to build a stadium in Montreal and how long will it take? I'm assuming the stadium cost comes with ideas to build other things around it? So were talking $500M - $1B range and taking about 3 years minimum to build? Is there any talk about this?

    Seems like this is somewhere around a $2B to $3B initial investment (+/-) for the Bronfman family. Can't imagine this being lower than $2B unless Sternberg only sells a % of the team.
     
  20. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Trophy Points:
    152
    Occupation:
    Civil Engineering
    Location:
    East Coast
    Expos leaving was a storm cloud that got bigger in a span of years...

    - CAD was worth like 60% of the USD. That was a big deal back when and the TV deals were not as lucrative as they are today.
    - The strike and how the Expos were screwed over in that season where they were the best in baseball
    - After that strike season, the Expos lost most of their impact players.
    - Location of the stadium and fan support

    The interest of the general fan was deflated and I suspect they were not happy about that lost season where they were built to win it all.
     
    donghabs98 and Runner77 like this.
  21. Roots73

    Roots73 TMLTP- ITS IN THE GAME!

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Hey perhaps Tropicana field could be the new spring training facility? ;)
     
    TooLegitToQuit likes this.
  22. Kobe Armstrong

    Kobe Armstrong Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    11,480
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    Trophy Points:
    149
    I think so too, the Orioles are trash but it would hurt so much to see them relocated.

    My family grew up in Vermont which is a pretty quick drive to Montreal, he got to live through the Pedro and Vlad years which he speaks fondly of. The cancelled season when the Expos were in first is still one of the greatest injustices in his life, lol
     
    Runner77 and TooLegitToQuit like this.
  23. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2016
    Messages:
    30,162
    Likes Received:
    5,786
    Trophy Points:
    152
    Occupation:
    Civil Engineering
    Location:
    East Coast
    Not sure how their fan base would feel about that lol. Also, the $20M fee was for moving the team but still in the Tampa area. I later come to find out the cost to get out of the lease and move it to another city would be something like $200M. That's would the city would ask for is what I read. Might be reduced to $100M in a few years and after they battle out a fair deal in court (if they go that route)
     
  24. Harpo

    Harpo Lyle forever

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,620
    Likes Received:
    235
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Quebec City
    Expos still had a somewhat decent attendance after 1994 (18-20K). The fatal blow seems to be the Pedro Martinez and Henry Rodriguez trades before the 1998 season (and the team being finally unable to stay competitive despite all the firesales).
     
    TooLegitToQuit likes this.
  25. Runner77

    Runner77 **********************************************

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2012
    Messages:
    47,867
    Likes Received:
    47,748
    Trophy Points:
    215
    While the strike left a bitter taste, what really killed the Expos is the repeated fire sales above all and the shortsighted ownership behind them.
     
    TooLegitToQuit likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"