All Purpose Coronavirus Discussion IV - Splendid Isolation

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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
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Blasio isn't the norm for the Democratic party, Cuomo is.

A Democrat administration would have left the Pandemic group intact on the NSC, and it would be leading the way.
It's unlikely a Democratic President would have been as obstinate about ignoring scientific experts, or have three incompetents like Mnuchin, Kudlow and Navarro making economic policy.
Nor would a Democrat listen to the Chamber of Commerce and refrain from using the Defense Production Act.

So yeah, odds are a Democratic administration would have been more prepared and would have acted much quicker, simply because they wouldn't have been constrained by an ideology that prevented the Federal Government from taking the lead, nor would they have been as likely to put spooking the market before saving lives.

While the ideology perspective makes one party less likely to respond well, it doesn't necessarily preclude a competent response. Especially by someone who claimed to be a rogue outsider.

There are examples of Republican governors running a competent response in this, after all. Politics can fade rapidly into the background when dealing with a crisis and at that point other basic leadership traits become much more important. Unfortunately, being politically skilled doesn't mean someone is a good manager.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
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While the ideology perspective makes one party less likely to respond well, it doesn't necessarily preclude a competent response. Especially by someone who claimed to be a rogue outsider.

There are examples of Republican governors running a competent response in this, after all. Politics can fade rapidly into the background when dealing with a crisis and at that point other basic leadership traits become much more important. Unfortunately, being politically skilled doesn't mean someone is a good manager.

Notice the best Republican Governor (Ohio) is probably one of the least ideological.
The worst responses seem to be the Republic Governors who are the strongest Trump supporters.

There used to be a Republican party, then Rove and Gingrich drove it right, and Trump purged it of anyone who was a real conservative (the label is much abused, Reactionaries are not Conservatives, in the same way those calling themselves "Progressives" tend not to be progressive).
 
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Embiid

*Injured
May 27, 2010
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While the ideology perspective makes one party less likely to respond well, it doesn't necessarily preclude a competent response. Especially by someone who claimed to be a rogue outsider.

There are examples of Republican governors running a competent response in this, after all. Politics can fade rapidly into the background when dealing with a crisis and at that point other basic leadership traits become much more important. Unfortunately, being politically skilled doesn't mean someone is a good manager.
There are politicos who think they are clever and sometimes will get the results they are seeking...good bad or indifferent....then there are politicos who are wise and think holistically and long term. Unfortunately, current so called leadership is disastrously myopic and ideologically obtuse. Complete menaces to society...criminally negligent...amorally sociopathic
 

Embiid

*Injured
May 27, 2010
32,577
20,873
Philadelphia
Notice the best Republican Governor (Ohio) is probably one of the least ideological.
The worst responses seem to be the Republic Governors who are the strongest Trump supporters.

There used to be a Republican party, then Rove and Gingrich drove it right, and Trump purged it of anyone who was a real conservative (the label is much abused, Reactionaries are not Conservatives, in the same way those calling themselves "Progressives" tend not to be progressive).
Gingrich's contract on America...
 

Foggy14

Registered User
Sep 13, 2017
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Going to have to edit this post with the link, but according to a USA Today article the virus may have been here back in Fall of '19, before this was a thing to most people; before anyone even threw the word 'pandemic' out there.

Back around Christmas or New Year I caught what was seemingly a cold that had a persistent cough along with it. The cough was fairly painful and lasted about 10-14 days along with some fatigue and aches. I never went to the doctor for it, but rather took some meds and got through it. Took a day off from work and carried on like normal. I remember the cough taking maybe a bit longer to go away.

I wondered people's thoughts on this. Is it legitimate to wonder if maybe you've already had this and recovered? Does anyone have a similar experience to share?

Edit here's the link: Coronavirus fact check: Could your December cough have been COVID-19?

The first documented case in Wuhan was mid-November so it definitely could have been in the US by December of 2019. My friend Matt is convinced he had it in February. All the symptoms and his cough was so bad he had blood in it.

I had a similar thing, it first hit me the day after Xmas, two days of a bad sore throat, then my sinuses were on fire and draining like mad for several days. I also had a very persistent dry cough....productive, but only after extreme hacking, and the hacking gave me headaches. The cough lessened a couple of days after New Years.

At the time I called it "the cold from hell". Right before Xmas I had two watches shipped via 2 day air from China. If this virus is as persistent on surfaces as they say it is, it could be possible. Like you, I'm wondering if I've had it already.

Italian scientists investigate possible earlier emergence of coronavirus

Adriano Decarli, an epidemiologist and medical statistics professor at the University of Milan, said there had been a “significant” increase in the number of people hospitalized for pneumonia and flu in the areas of Milan and Lodi between October and December last year.

He told Reuters he could not give exact figures but “hundreds” more people than usual had been taken to hospital in the last three months of 2019 in those areas - two of Lombardy’s worst hit cities - with pneumonia and flu-like symptoms, and some of those had died.

Decarli is reviewing the hospital records and other clinical details of those cases, including people who later died at home, to try to understand whether the new coronavirus epidemic had already spread to Italy back then.

Italy, which now has the highest number of COVID-19 deaths in the world, recorded its first case of infection on Feb. 21, though some scientists think the virus began circulating in the country at least a month earlier.

“The virus was already here in the second half of January,” said Massimo Galli, head of the infectious disease unit at Milan’s Sacco hospital and a professor at the department of biomedical and clinical sciences at the University of Milan.

He said, however, that the probability of the virus circulating in Italy before January was “very low”.

Giuseppe Remuzzi, director of the Mario Negri Institute for Pharmacological Research, in Milan, said some family doctors in Lombardy had reported unusual cases of pneumonia late last year that now looked potentially suspicious.

He said among those were several cases of bilateral pneumonia - which means both lungs are affected - in the areas of Gera D’Adda and Crema in late November and December, with high fever, cough, fatigue and difficulty breathing.

“None of these cases have been documented as COVID-19 because there was no evidence yet of the existence of COVID-19,” he said.

Remuzzi said that if evidence of COVID-19 cases in Italy as far back as November was confirmed, this may signal that the virus can go undetected for months.

He said some reports in scientific journals had also led other scientists to question whether the virus may have emerged in China as early as October.
 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
164,308
Armored Train
Notice the best Republican Governor (Ohio) is probably one of the least ideological.
The worst responses seem to be the Republic Governors who are the strongest Trump supporters.

There used to be a Republican party, then Rove and Gingrich drove it right, and Trump purged it of anyone who was a real conservative (the label is much abused, Reactionaries are not Conservatives, in the same way those calling themselves "Progressives" tend not to be progressive).

I'm gonna nod at this and follow up with "Let's not pursue this string of GOP history further." I think we'll get off on a tangent that's too political.

If you're bored, I have DMs
 
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Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
164,308
Armored Train
Try this and let me know what happens:



(Don't actually do this. Ever.)

I finished a Linux class a few weeks ago.

source.gif
 

Jack Straw

Moving much too slow.
Sponsor
Jul 19, 2010
24,219
25,483
New York
While the ideology perspective makes one party less likely to respond well, it doesn't necessarily preclude a competent response. Especially by someone who claimed to be a rogue outsider.

There are examples of Republican governors running a competent response in this, after all. Politics can fade rapidly into the background when dealing with a crisis and at that point other basic leadership traits become much more important. Unfortunately, being politically skilled doesn't mean someone is a good manager.

I would say that any administration that I can recall, Republican or Democratic (I vaguely remember Johnson's presidency) would have done a better job than the clown show we're stuck with now. In large part because no president that I can recall is nearly as insecure as DJT. That insecurity, his reluctance to face reality and act on it until it's too late, has created a crisis that is worse than it should have been.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
164,308
Armored Train
I would say that any administration that I can recall, Republican or Democratic (I vaguely remember Johnson's presidency) would have done a better job than the clown show we're stuck with now. In large part because no president that I can recall is nearly as insecure as DJT. That insecurity, his reluctance to face reality and act on it until it's too late, has created a crisis that is worse than it should have been.

Katrina is hard to gauge. There were some serious leadership failings involved which made things very very bad, but at the same time without NIMS that incident was probably always going to be overwhelming and poorly handled even best-case.

However, that administration was willing and able to look at what happened, admit things went badly, and they kicked off a complete overhaul of incident management from the top level down to the smallest localities that has been exceptionally beneficial ever since. This administration didn't respond to their failings with Maria by doing anything like that. They refused to admit they did anything wrong and so refused to learn. A refusal to learn from errors is a major problem, especially since they're going to be dealing with this or months.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,478
164,308
Armored Train
Nothing illegal. I don’t know who you were talking to but they were f***ing lying. I bought all the music. My grandma gave me an iTunes card. It’s all legit.

Oh ok. Well if you have Linux and you run that command, then all of your legally acquired e-wares will be gone. As well as your operating system.
 
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