All Goalie Talk

tjs*

Registered User
Mar 18, 2016
2,103
0
The main point is to understand the business side of the game. We all love Bishop and personally I've been claiming for a while he's our most valuable player on the team, yes even more than Hedman IMO. I'm talking as one of his biggest supporter. But we need to change our approach, because it's flawed. Our possession game is suspect. The goal scoring, particularly when Kuch or Johnson are slumping tends to be clearly below average. Bish can only stand on his head as long as a human body can, and it seems it's not humanly possible to stay healthy when you need to steal 2 playoffs games per series. We're slowly becoming a younger version of the New York Rangers. The mindset of our skaters relies too much on a skillset based on defense. We have 3 forwards capable to take over a series production wise, Killorn and Palat are well-balanced but the rest of the team is just too one-dimension and plain terrible at scoring goals and/or even generate puck possession or smart plays. We just have too many Filpullas, Callahans, Browns and all here, they're very responsible players but they almost never score in the playoffs.


Now how can we improve this team ? Bish's likely to command a significant raise, something around $7M per season is very possible. Vasy's not nearly as great but he's already a decent goaltender and good enough to be reliable on a Cup contending line-up. Time will also play in Vasy's favor, he'll get better with more playing time.

The most difficult has already been done though, our top 6 is frigging legit and playoffs tested, one of the most productive in the playoffs the past 2 years, but depth at forward is absolutely key in the playoffs because your top 6 can't own such high competition for 2 months in a row. Sometimes they need support, help, a breath of fresh air... Just something !

Schneider was traded for a top 10 draft pick and he wasn't as nearly proven as Bish is now. Ain't gonna say he could bring us back a lot more but not only we'd be capable to clear some colossal cap-space, we would resolve the expansion draft concern at the same time AND also we could improve the skating squad with a young player on cheap contract having a minimum of scoring touch and offensive IQ.

Yeah, I was against this thought process before but with the recent announcement about the cap likely staying close to flat this seems to be the direction the wind is blowing. If the cap continued to rise even at a low rate of ~$3M per year we would be in pretty good shape with Stamkos walking, Carle being bought out, Filppula being moved or bought out, etc. Without even that small increase however we are now in serious danger of losing multiple pieces of our core.

So as much as I hate to say it the smart move might be to give up on our Cup chances for the next year or two and focus on building a team that can be competitive longer term. If that means moving higher priced veterans in order to ensure that we retain our quality youth then so be it. It'll hurt us for a year or two but then we'll have a team that can compete for the next decade; the alternative is to go "Cup or bust" with the team we have now and watch as we lose a good chunk of our talent.
 

hockeey

Registered User
Oct 28, 2014
881
2
CA
Sharks fan here. Gotta appreciate Vasy after watching the Pens dominate play in two games in a row now. No way you can look at last series and say Bishop would've solved all your problems. Vasy played admirably and while he isn't as good as Bish, you guys have very tough choice to make between the two goalies.
 

RDTBay4

Registered User
Apr 28, 2014
4,242
1,863
Clearwater, FL
Sharks fan here. Gotta appreciate Vasy after watching the Pens dominate play in two games in a row now. No way you can look at last series and say Bishop would've solved all your problems. Vasy played admirably and while he isn't as good as Bish, you guys have very tough choice to make between the two goalies.

Actually, you're wrong. Bishop would have ended that series before game 7. Pens got lucky.
 

CupsOverCash

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
16,353
7,092
Who knows what would have happened with Bish in net. What we do know is that Vasi almost stole that series. That's gotta make Bolts fans feel pretty good about our goaltending situation. It wouldn't surprise me if we traded Bish this offseason to free up some cash this year to help sign Stamkos and Kuch. Or if we let Stammer walk to sign another couple FA for depth scoring.
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
34,119
19,684
Tampa Bay
I think immediate the solution ahead of us is "why not both"? It looks like NMC's don't require a spot to be protected from expansion, so if you protect Vasilevskiy and Bishop has immunity through an NMC, we will no longer have to worry about losing one or the other. Or so that's what I THINK can happen. Vasilevskiy has enormous potential but I think it's gonna take a little more time before he puts it all together. You may as well keep a good thing around in Bishop for a few more years and let it ride.

Sign Bishop short term but pay him well and split Vasilevskiy's time with him evenly and let the 21 year old get his experience without a gun to his head.
 

CupsOverCash

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
16,353
7,092
I think immediate the solution ahead of us is "why not both"? It looks like NMC's don't require a spot to be protected from expansion, so if you protect Vasilevskiy and Bishop has immunity through an NMC, we will no longer have to worry about losing one or the other. Or so that's what I THINK can happen. Vasilevskiy has enormous potential but I think it's gonna take a little more time before he puts it all together. You may as well keep a good thing around in Bishop for a few more years and let it ride.

Sign Bishop short term but pay him well and split Vasilevskiy's time with him evenly and let the 21 year old get his experience without a gun to his head.

To me this is ideal. I say if we can afford it and it doesn't cause us to lose anybody of significance then this is what you do. My only concern is when does Vasi feel like Drouin and think he deserves to be the starter? He almost pulled a big upset against the Pens. He looked pretty damn close to starter material in that series. Is he willing to wait? That is the key.
 

Volodya Krutov

Lost Cosmonaut
Jan 18, 2012
8,135
1,036
I think immediate the solution ahead of us is "why not both"? It looks like NMC's don't require a spot to be protected from expansion, so if you protect Vasilevskiy and Bishop has immunity through an NMC, we will no longer have to worry about losing one or the other. Or so that's what I THINK can happen. Vasilevskiy has enormous potential but I think it's gonna take a little more time before he puts it all together. You may as well keep a good thing around in Bishop for a few more years and let it ride.

Sign Bishop short term but pay him well and split Vasilevskiy's time with him evenly and let the 21 year old get his experience without a gun to his head.

Why would Bishop accept to do that ? He's at his peak and his next contract is likely to be the last one. Bishop will never agree to sign for 2 years to only give Vasy more and more starts. That'd be immensely stupid and a reckless career management from his part. He's going to milk a small fortune over his next contract, being here or somewhere else.
 

Lord Stan 2020

Elite fan
Jun 29, 2013
12,262
886
New Port Richey Fl
www.facebook.com
the nmc ideal

there will be rules and if every team all of a sudden goes on nmc detail in order to protect guys

the league will intervene imho and give a time line which would screw us just my two cents i know everyone wants to keep both

but but but so far the non option that was in past that the league is not talking about is allowing two goalies protection so far in talks discussions they have only the option of d forwards one goalie or skaters one goalie

so those that think we can outwit the league when they already are showing they want to make everyone give up a shot at some goalie you are kidding self

just my two cents --- they even said after last talks they will have lottery choice in draft etc.. they are not making this good for us or other teams they are making it so these teams can compete immediately

so yes good thought am sure will be discussed but again am sure league will find a way to hurt us if we try to circumvent this with nmc or anything else

good news for us is nmc/ntc at end look like they will not be protected...

eklund said he is hearing rumors from his sources in last few days lightning are moving forward with vasileskiy now that is eklund but that is a lot to say without truth so him stepping out like this is big to me

dont have link todd showed yesterday on facebook i couldnt find it ohhhhh was in private here it is
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklu...Little-More-Clear-Wednesdays-Buzzcast/1/77312
 

MattM92

Registered User
Dec 8, 2010
6,925
516
FL
I don't see us losing to the Pens if Bishop is healthy. I don't even see it going 7. He would have neutralized their forecheck because he is an unbelievable puck handler and the Pens can't send 2 guys in on a goalie the way they can on a defenseman. Besides that, you have to look at Bishop and Vasi at this point in time. Who is the better goalie right now? It's undoubtedly Bishop. As well as Vasi played, it's not a stretch to think that Bishop would have played at least as well, if not better, while also bringing an extra wrinkle that would break the Pens forecheck.
 

tjs*

Registered User
Mar 18, 2016
2,103
0
I don't see us losing to the Pens if Bishop is healthy. I don't even see it going 7. He would have neutralized their forecheck because he is an unbelievable puck handler and the Pens can't send 2 guys in on a goalie the way they can on a defenseman. Besides that, you have to look at Bishop and Vasi at this point in time. Who is the better goalie right now? It's undoubtedly Bishop. As well as Vasi played, it's not a stretch to think that Bishop would have played at least as well, if not better, while also bringing an extra wrinkle that would break the Pens forecheck.

I agree with all of this. The problem is if the cap remains flat we're going to have to make some difficult choices. There are serious questions about Bishop's durability and given the sort of contract he's likely to command resigning him could cost us one or more of our young forwards. If we make that choice and then Bishop can't stay healthy we'll be in a bad place. We'll also be in a bad place if we move Bishop and then Vasilveskiy doesn't pan out, but at least we'll have the cap space to rectify the situation. And if Vasy does work out we can use the money freed up to improve our scoring depth which is a serious issue.

In short we're taking a risk either way, but moving Bishop has far less potential downside than keeping him. I'd hate to see Bishop go and would like to keep him around as long as possible, but with the cap the way it is I'm afraid it's a decision that might need to be made.
 

MattM92

Registered User
Dec 8, 2010
6,925
516
FL
I agree with all of this. The problem is if the cap remains flat we're going to have to make some difficult choices. There are serious questions about Bishop's durability and given the sort of contract he's likely to command resigning him could cost us one or more of our young forwards. If we make that choice and then Bishop can't stay healthy we'll be in a bad place. We'll also be in a bad place if we move Bishop and then Vasilveskiy doesn't pan out, but at least we'll have the cap space to rectify the situation. And if Vasy does work out we can use the money freed up to improve our scoring depth which is a serious issue.

In short we're taking a risk either way, but moving Bishop has far less potential downside than keeping him. I'd hate to see Bishop go and would like to keep him around as long as possible, but with the cap the way it is I'm afraid it's a decision that might need to be made.

That's an entirely different problem to think about. I think Vasi is the right option for the future, but I'm not crazy enough to think that Bishop isn't the better goalie at this moment in time. I have complete faith that Vasi will be a top 5 goalie in the league, and I'm not saying he's the reason we lost, I just don't see the Pens beating us with our MVP playing.
 

Todd1a

Kucherov or prospect
Jun 19, 2014
16,389
2,747
orlando, fl
the nmc ideal

there will be rules and if every team all of a sudden goes on nmc detail in order to protect guys

the league will intervene imho and give a time line which would screw us just my two cents i know everyone wants to keep both

but but but so far the non option that was in past that the league is not talking about is allowing two goalies protection so far in talks discussions they have only the option of d forwards one goalie or skaters one goalie

so those that think we can outwit the league when they already are showing they want to make everyone give up a shot at some goalie you are kidding self

just my two cents --- they even said after last talks they will have lottery choice in draft etc.. they are not making this good for us or other teams they are making it so these teams can compete immediately

so yes good thought am sure will be discussed but again am sure league will find a way to hurt us if we try to circumvent this with nmc or anything else

good news for us is nmc/ntc at end look like they will not be protected...

eklund said he is hearing rumors from his sources in last few days lightning are moving forward with vasileskiy now that is eklund but that is a lot to say without truth so him stepping out like this is big to me

dont have link todd showed yesterday on facebook i couldnt find it ohhhhh was in private here it is
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklu...Little-More-Clear-Wednesdays-Buzzcast/1/77312

You so desperate you are listening to Eklund now lol lol lol!!! You truly think Stamkos is our yzerman and will win cups starting when Stamkos hits 30.
 

AlphaCatalyst

Elite Fan
Jun 27, 2007
14,921
7,126
Calgary
Vasi needs more than the 21 starts he got this past season regardless, imo.

I agree, the problem was Bishop was stealing games and so Cooper had to go with him. I think a 1A 1B situation could work but Bishop was playing too good to do that.
 

LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
26,061
9,772
I think immediate the solution ahead of us is "why not both"? It looks like NMC's don't require a spot to be protected from expansion, so if you protect Vasilevskiy and Bishop has immunity through an NMC, we will no longer have to worry about losing one or the other. Or so that's what I THINK can happen. Vasilevskiy has enormous potential but I think it's gonna take a little more time before he puts it all together. You may as well keep a good thing around in Bishop for a few more years and let it ride.

Sign Bishop short term but pay him well and split Vasilevskiy's time with him evenly and let the 21 year old get his experience without a gun to his head.

That's the best solution. Yzerman and Bish need to somehow figure out a good deal in both term and cap hit for this, in return he gets a NMC for a couple years.
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
34,119
19,684
Tampa Bay
That's the best solution. Yzerman and Bish need to somehow figure out a good deal in both term and cap hit for this, in return he gets a NMC for a couple years.

It only needs to be for a few years. 3 years is my cutoff because unless Bishop feels like being great forever like Martin Brodeur, he's going to have to accept the fact that Vasilevskiy is the future of the Lightning in net and his performance against Pittsburgh has him "this close" to untouchable like Hedman and Kucherov are. To play that well at the age of 21 is a truly remarkable thing. The fact Bishop is constantly injured during the playoffs is doing little to help him too.

Bishop's in a similar situation to Stamkos in that he has the choice to stick around and be the backbone of a champion. Or he can secure the biggest check of his life. And believe me.... someone WILL pay him for it and its his choice on what he wants to do. But in the Lightning's case, it is not wise to throw an eternal contract at a guy who will be 5 months away from being 31 years old on July 1st 2017. We're already seeing Lundqvist start to decline and it WILL inevitably happen to Bishop.

Then there begs another question... is Vasilevskiy willing to wait for that long?
 

2MinutesforGiraffing

angelsil on safari
Apr 2, 2013
1,707
0
Tampa
Then there begs another question... is Vasilevskiy willing to wait for that long?

No. Nor should he - he's going to be a starter somewhere in 2 seasons for sure. Even knowing he needs some work on rebound control and such, he's still a HUGE upgrade for a lot of teams.

All y'all worried about Bishop and Vasy and I'm just sitting over here waiting for news on Kristers (besides the Finnish rumor).

:laugh:
 

Stammertime91

TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Dec 13, 2011
12,960
11,355
Tampa: NHL's Newest Dynasty
No. Nor should he - he's going to be a starter somewhere in 2 seasons for sure. Even knowing he needs some work on rebound control and such, he's still a HUGE upgrade for a lot of teams.

All y'all worried about Bishop and Vasy and I'm just sitting over here waiting for news on Kristers (besides the Finnish rumor).

:laugh:

Yeah I've been wondering what happens with him too. Do we trade one of them and let him take backup or move him? This is quite the situation we've got now. Didn't see this occurring earlier in the year.
 

2MinutesforGiraffing

angelsil on safari
Apr 2, 2013
1,707
0
Tampa
Yeah I've been wondering what happens with him too. Do we trade one of them and let him take backup or move him? This is quite the situation we've got now. Didn't see this occurring earlier in the year.

According to peeps on the Tweety box, he has a "significant offer" to play in Finland.

I've been saying for a year I thought he'd go back to Europe, but nobody believed me...

Anyway, if we move on from Bishop this Summer we could do a lot worse than KG as a backup. Or we should try to trade him. We have to qualify him this Summer either way. I wouldn't want to sit full-time in the AHL for another season at his age when there are franchises clamoring for new blood. Let us not forget: Lindback is still employed in the NHL (or at least last season, I'm still trying to drink away Anders).

Honestly, if I'm a 24 year-old Latvian kid and my options are rotting for another year at 60K in the AHL in North America - in Syracuse - or going to Finland and making five times that or more 3-5 hours from home? Hasta la Vista baby. Or whatever that equivalent is in Lativan. I've learned, like, 10 words thus far.
 

Lord Stan 2020

Elite fan
Jun 29, 2013
12,262
886
New Port Richey Fl
www.facebook.com
According to peeps on the Tweety box, he has a "significant offer" to play in Finland.

I've been saying for a year I thought he'd go back to Europe, but nobody believed me...

Anyway, if we move on from Bishop this Summer we could do a lot worse than KG as a backup. Or we should try to trade him. We have to qualify him this Summer either way. I wouldn't want to sit full-time in the AHL for another season at his age when there are franchises clamoring for new blood. Let us not forget: Lindback is still employed in the NHL (or at least last season, I'm still trying to drink away Anders).

Honestly, if I'm a 24 year-old Latvian kid and my options are rotting for another year at 60K in the AHL in North America - in Syracuse - or going to Finland and making five times that or more 3-5 hours from home? Hasta la Vista baby. Or whatever that equivalent is in Lativan. I've learned, like, 10 words thus far.

hes 23 years old smdh 24 in july hes a fifth round pick hes played 3 years of minors and has been unremarkable. I think he would be foolish to move back home personally if he wants an nhl career.

A simple question how many russians or swedes or etc.. go to a minor league out of the american system GOALTENDERS ever make it back to states and get another chance? How rare is that? This is his best shot to have any other thought process is bad decision making or advice to me.
 

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