I think Frederic is pretty good, but I think with Beecher we have a better version of him, so I would not hesitate to trade Frederic to move Backes and I would rather that then trading our first round pick away in what is a deep draft. I agree giving up Grizz would be really tough, guess it depends on what they see happening with Krug as well, if Krug re-signs ata reasonable price, maybe Grizz is expendable especially with Zech on the way soon.
Proposal: All Bruins Trade Proposals IV
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As always, well thought out and put together post.
I think where we disagree is on the baseline for the core group. To me, keeping it together suggests one more run whereas to you, it seems(correct me if I'm wrong) that adding to it would suggest one more run. This team was really really good, even before they added Coyle and Mojo, The 19 game point streak being the peak of that. They showed that they can do it without Bergeron and Chara and that they have the depth to be very "next man up"
If they weren't in it for one more run, I think Krejci and Krug would probably both be out the door. Don's shown in the past with Lucic and Hamilton (and almost Rask too) that he's not afraid to rip any band aids off when success isn't the #1 focus and he's in asset management mode between windows.
So I look at it like this...standard deviations apply before people jump down my throat
What will stay the same:
Production from Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Krug
Goaltending from Tuukka
What will be better:
Coyle with a full camp and year
Pastrnak, DeBrusk, Heinen all probably level up
McAvoy, Gryz, Carlo level up
Clifton to a lesser extent but maybe he surprises
What will be worse:
Chara
Backes
4th line - I expect a slight regression here, especially with the cat being out of the bag from this past postseason.
2nd/3rd line upside options - Last year we started with assumptions about JFK, Donato could be, neither of which worked out. We ended with questions at 2nd, and Mojo on the third. I don't believe we've downgraded much here from where things were on opening night of last year, but no doubt going from Mojo to no Mojo from the playoff run is a downgrade. Even though neither JFK or Donato worked out, they possessed a "if it clicks, it'll be real nice for us" upside that none of the options this year possess unless something Lucic-esque wild at camp happens(Stud, Lauko, Bjork, etc.)
To me, the progress you're going to get, along with the pieces of the core that will stay the same outweighs what will be worse significantly and the B's roll in with a better overall lineup in 2019-20 than they had in 2018-19. No doubt there are still holes, as there were last year, but this team to me is still playing a home game for G1 of the playoffs.
I think the Bruins FO is coming at it from the same angle with the understanding that the window slams the moment the cup is raised in 2020. Otherwise, I don't believe they'd be hanging onto some of the pieces they're currently hanging onto and instead maximizing asset value.
Now this is as of this day. I don't believe the Bruins walk into camp without adding another piece @ wing personally.
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Fenian24
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I don't want to move the first in this years draft, suppose to be very deep. Granted Sweeney could mess it up but at least let's have the pick or if moved get a younger top 6 forward with some time left on his contract.
I see one of Beecher or Frederic moving to wing in the future, my thought would be Frederic, good defensive game, good shot, not a great playmaker or skater. Could become a 15-20 goal physical wing with size, something they need badly.
Correct me if I am wrong but is Zech even signed to an NHL contract? I thought it was just an AHL deal. I wouldn't be counting on a guy on an AHL deal to step in for Grizz of Krug anytime soon or ever.
To move Backes I would add one of Senyshyn, Kuhlman, Zboril or Lauzon. It will take a decent prospect as well as maybe a third round pick and another lower prospect. Include a decent D prospect if you have to instead of a lower prospect like Fitzgerald or JFK.
Backes, Senyshyn, JFK for a 2021 third and no money retained, I have no idea if that gets it done from a Jersey stand point.
As always, well thought out and put together post.
I think where we disagree is on the baseline for the core group. To me, keeping it together suggests one more run whereas to you, it seems(correct me if I'm wrong) that adding to it would suggest one more run. This team was really really good, even before they added Coyle and Mojo, The 19 game point streak being the peak of that. They showed that they can do it without Bergeron and Chara and that they have the depth to be very "next man up"
If they weren't in it for one more run, I think Krejci and Krug would probably both be out the door. Don's shown in the past with Lucic and Hamilton (and almost Rask too) that he's not afraid to rip any band aids off when success isn't the #1 focus and he's in asset management mode between windows.
So I look at it like this...standard deviations apply before people jump down my throat
What will stay the same:
Production from Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Krug
Goaltending from Tuukka
What will be better:
Coyle with a full camp and year
Pastrnak, DeBrusk, Heinen all probably level up
McAvoy, Gryz, Carlo level up
Clifton to a lesser extent but maybe he surprises
What will be worse:
Chara
Backes
4th line - I expect a slight regression here, especially with the cat being out of the bag from this past postseason.
2nd/3rd line upside options - Last year we started with assumptions about JFK, Donato could be, neither of which worked out. We ended with questions at 2nd, and Mojo on the third. I don't believe we've downgraded much here from where things were on opening night of last year, but no doubt going from Mojo to no Mojo from the playoff run is a downgrade. Even though neither JFK or Donato worked out, they possessed a "if it clicks, it'll be real nice for us" upside that none of the options this year possess unless something Lucic-esque wild at camp happens(Stud, Lauko, Bjork, etc.)
To me, the progress you're going to get, along with the pieces of the core that will stay the same outweighs what will be worse significantly and the B's roll in with a better overall lineup in 2019-20 than they had in 2018-19. No doubt there are still holes, as there were last year, but this team to me is still playing a home game for G1 of the playoffs.
I think the Bruins FO is coming at it from the same angle with the understanding that the window slams the moment the cup is raised in 2020. Otherwise, I don't believe they'd be hanging onto some of the pieces they're currently hanging onto and instead maximizing asset value.
Now this is as of this day. I don't believe the Bruins walk into camp without adding another piece @ wing personally.
I would say that you are being more then a little optimistic with Bergy/Marchy/Krecji's production staying the same as last year. I would expect a drop off from all three realistically.
BlackCrowes
Registered User
Re: Zech, I believe you are correct. He’s on the second year of a 2 year AHL contract.
- Feb 3, 2009
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Every year I hear that it's either a deep draft, or it's "deeper than initially thought." I'm skeptical.
Blowfish
Count down ...
Backes was such a bad signing. We
All saw this coming. My gut says Neely had his way on this one. No more past prime lumbering turtles. It won’t work in this league.
All saw this coming. My gut says Neely had his way on this one. No more past prime lumbering turtles. It won’t work in this league.
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MAINE-IAC
Registered User
Fenian24
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If Neely "had his way" trying to add some toughness with talent to the line up it's a good thing, wish he had gotten the GM of the year to sign Ferland, hopefully Beecher and Frederic both pan out and they can start to add some size and toughness from the draft. Best way to get players like Ferland, Backes, Lucic, Anderson is draft and develop, you get them for their most productive years and then restock and keep the pipe line full of players who can fill a couple of spots in the top 9, because they did not draft and develop players of this type, instead focusing on smaller skilled players too much, they over paid Backes and signed Beleskey who had one good year and then became the stay puft marshmallow man.
A Backes type of player, or two, is needed. Signing those players over thirty is a risk, especially for long term deals and big money.(See Wayne Simmonds who was a great player but that 5M deal, even for a year, is not going to work out IMHO) I like Backes, it sucks that he can't keep up and is injured. What he was paid is not his fault, nobody would have turned down that deal.
Sweeney will now pay one way or another for the signing, either you give up assets to move his contract or you are stuck with a 6M cap hit that could effect your ability to sign two important young D. His decision to not draft players who had skill and toughness with size has hurt their cap and hurt in last years playoffs.
A Backes type of player, or two, is needed. Signing those players over thirty is a risk, especially for long term deals and big money.(See Wayne Simmonds who was a great player but that 5M deal, even for a year, is not going to work out IMHO) I like Backes, it sucks that he can't keep up and is injured. What he was paid is not his fault, nobody would have turned down that deal.
Sweeney will now pay one way or another for the signing, either you give up assets to move his contract or you are stuck with a 6M cap hit that could effect your ability to sign two important young D. His decision to not draft players who had skill and toughness with size has hurt their cap and hurt in last years playoffs.
Maybe, but I don’t expect it to be a substantial drop off, hence my standard deviation caveat.
I don’t see much in terms of headwinds for them individually or for the success of the current power play as long as they stay healthy. No abnormal shooting % or anything like that.
What makes you think they will have a drop off?
Colt.45Orr
Registered User
DeBrusk and Backes
For
Miles Wood
Maybe some of you balk at that right away but if you think about it it is a deal where you don't have to give up your first rounder-- so it essentially becomes DeBrusk and Backes for Wood and Boston 1st rounder.
Winger-with-size, Wood could get 30 next to Krejci.
For
Miles Wood
Maybe some of you balk at that right away but if you think about it it is a deal where you don't have to give up your first rounder-- so it essentially becomes DeBrusk and Backes for Wood and Boston 1st rounder.
Winger-with-size, Wood could get 30 next to Krejci.
PlayMakers
Moderator
Why do you think that? What has Beecher done at 17 that Frederic didn't? Beecher had 43 points in 63 games for the USDP, Frederic had 40 in 61. Beecher scored 4 points at the U-18's, Frederic had 7 points in the same tourney. They both played bottom6 roles.
As an 18 year old freshman, Frederic was a point per game players in college, he followed that up with another ppg season and being named assistant captain as as sophomore. All in, he scored 32 goals in his two years in college. He also scored 5 goals in 7 games at the WJC's that year.
IMO, it's way too early to say one will be better than the other. Frederic's post draft years have been very solid, the kind of production that projects to a top6 forward, and I'd be delighted if Beecher continues to mirror him.
It seems like everyone is down on Frederic because he didn't light up Providence his first year. That's a mistake IMO. First off, he did score at a 21 goal pace in the first half of his first pro season. That's not nothing. Marchand only had 18 goals as a rookie in the AHL. Frederic's points per game were the same pace as Kuhlman who's 3 years older. Also, a lot of first year pros do most of their damage in the second half. Sticking with Kuhlman as an example, he only had 9 points in his first 30 AHL games, then he put up 21 points in his last 28 games.
I don't mean to pick on you but it seems like a lot of folks are writing him off. Even that writer in the other thread had him as the 4th line center 5 years from now.
Blowfish
Count down ...
Fenian24
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We will differ here. Speed is nice and you need a mix of toughness and speed. Were the Blues faster than the Bruins. Was there D filled with small puck movers? Wonder how much a younger Backes like player or two make in the finals?
Beecher is very fast, ideally he becomes a fast, aggressive, mean third line center (second would be better) who puts up points and hits, steps up for his teammates and has a little Brad Marchand in him. I also hope the same for Frederic but I see him more as an old school checking center or third line LW..
I would expect a pretty decent drop off in point production due to the fact they all had career years or pretty close to it, they are all getting up there in age, they are coming off a long season. I expect come playoff time they can all match or exceed where they were at point wise, but regular season they all did so well that it will be tough for them to match. I would say a drop off in points is more of a safe assumption. They can't expect them to match or exceed career years.
Pia8988
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Colt.45Orr
Registered User
This is not the thread to discuss DeBrusk's performance in the playoffs.
11 months apart in age. ppg rate isn't too far apart. It only works really if you think, like I do, that Wood would explode under Krejci's playmaking.
Pia8988
Registered User
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Woods zeros in his 5 games are so much better. You love to chase ‘toughness’ for talent in your proposals
Absurdity
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You have probably watched Miles Wood more than I have. Apart from his willingness to drop the gloves and throw a hit, what is your scouting report on him? How would you compare his ceiling and potential to DeBrusk's?
Pia8988
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Marchand and Bergeron have been very consistent since Cassidy took over. Bergeron did have a standout first 20 games of 2018-19, but settled back down to the slightly above PPG player he’s been. I expect that to continue.
Krejci’s the wild card. It’s all health for him. If he stays healthy, he’ll produce 2018-19 numbers, especially if DeBrusk pops in another 27 or even 30+. If he’s not healthy he’ll come back down to 2017-18 numbers which is fine too. I can’t predict health though unfortunately
I’m not looking at Claude years, they’re irrelevant to the core players in my opinion, so I’m less concerned about “career years” and more looking at what players have done in Bruce’s system. I don’t see any of the players taking a full step back. Sure maybe Marchand has 90 points instead of 100, but to me that’s semantics.
F
funny I got laughed at last year for suggesting donato and a first for wood. He is exactly what we need and is signed to a great deal. Can we do Heinen Backes a d man for wood?
TCB
Registered User
So the Sens just jumped above the cap floor by adding Anisimov 4.55 million cap hit for the next two years in exchange for Zach Smiths 3.25 million cap hit.
Outside of last year where Backes only had twenty points, but with a very limited role, he's actually been better production wise and brings a lot more intangibles, but is 4 years older, and the actual money the sens will have to pay,I believe would of been the same for either player 5 mil over the next two years.
I sure hope Sweeney has something in the works to shed Backes salary as were seeing other teams make deals to get cap complaint and shed some salary to give them more wiggle room, and I would think that Sweeney wouldn't of had to add a hell of a lot more to have Ottawa take on Backes, that's of course if Backes was willing to go to Ottawa.
Outside of last year where Backes only had twenty points, but with a very limited role, he's actually been better production wise and brings a lot more intangibles, but is 4 years older, and the actual money the sens will have to pay,I believe would of been the same for either player 5 mil over the next two years.
I sure hope Sweeney has something in the works to shed Backes salary as were seeing other teams make deals to get cap complaint and shed some salary to give them more wiggle room, and I would think that Sweeney wouldn't of had to add a hell of a lot more to have Ottawa take on Backes, that's of course if Backes was willing to go to Ottawa.
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