Alive and kicking STILL.. OIE!!

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Crows*, Jan 27, 2005.

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  1. Crows*

    Crows* Guest

    http://hockeyrumors.blogspot.com/

    Doom and gloom prevails throughout the press again. I am trying to sort through the propaganda and speculation tonight, and it aint easy...this is what we know...the only source that has gotten back to me said, "The owners and players continued on the same path they were on in Toronto, and some ideas proposed by the owners were rejected. However the NHLPA left the table to discuss their options and has said they will get back to the NHL tomorrow. This is where we'll see what those inside have said all along...The NHLPA will accept a cap and get on with this."
     
  2. mileflames

    mileflames Registered User

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    :madfire: :banghead:

    We can only hope, I will be mad at them for playing games with fans minds :mad:
     
  3. Lady Rhian

    Lady Rhian The Only Good Indian

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    I don't think there are too many fans that won't be angry, if the season is toast, after all this. :banghead:
     
  4. Da Game

    Da Game Registered User

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    Why would the NHLPA accept a Cap at this point and time? They've already lost almost 70% of their salary due to the lockout. And if both sides don't come to an agreement today, the NHLPA can wait until next fall to start talks up again, since they don't get paid during the playoffs, nor the off-season.

    Also, by then, they'll be leagues started up for the NHL players to play in next season.
     
  5. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    Because if this is really the way the owners want to go. salalry cap and nothing else, and the players stand on this luxury tax stance, they stand to lose more next year.
     
  6. Da Game

    Da Game Registered User

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    The only thing the NHLPA stand to lose, is the amount of salary they've enjoy for the past 10 years.

    Otherwise, the players have a ton of options. As an example, they can go across the Atlantic Ocean, where the fan base is huge now, and get paid well. Maybe even the WHA get's it together.

    Where as the Owners have one option. And that's to hang on to a small chance that the NLRB might grant them an Impasse, which is highly doubtful. Other than that, the Owners stand to lose more than the players.

    Though I would like to say, that the biggest loser in this, is the fans.
     
  7. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    No league in Europe has the playing conditions warranting the money they would get over there. Neither would the WHA. The most money they would get is from the NHL.
     
  8. i am dave

    i am dave Registered User

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    I agree. How much is a loaf of bread these days in Moscow? The NHL players, the North Americans especially, won't last in Europe and Russia.
     
  9. They'll (sic) be other leagues started up for NHL players to play in next season? Which ones? Europe is pretty well saturated and plays a tenth of the players would make in the NHL. The WHA is not serious option until they prove they can actually get a game up and running, and the money there is no different that that in Europe. So where is the player's leverage? The players are the ones losing here, not the owners. Come on, you're a lawyer. You recognize a no-win case. This is as no-win as you get.

    The players have lost close to a billion dollars that they will never recover. When all is said and done they will have lost a guaranteed $1.3 billion with the cancellation of the season. Any deal tossed at them when negotiations pick up in the summer will not be any better. They will still be guaranteed their 60% of the revenues, but those revenues will only be pegged at $1 billion instead of two. The players weren't happy with the prospects of giving up 24% of their salaries, well I wonder how they are going to like giving up 100% for 2004-05 and then 50% for 2005-06 without negotiation?

    How stupid do you have to be to not realize that players in Europe are not making money, blowing all of their earnings on insurance to guarantee their NHL earnings should they get injured? They're working for nothing. They're walking away from multi-million dollar contracts to work for expenses. They're turning their back on millions to work for thousands. They're attempting to make a point to businessmen who are losing less money by not having the league in operation than they would if the games were taking place. These same men are still making their millions in other industries, so not having the NHL in business is not creating a hardship on their part. The NHL players have already been distributing the strike fund they set up, yet the owners have not even touched the $300 million that they socked away. The players are in a major lose-lose proposition and their too stupid to recognize it. They're getting bad advice from the parasites who counsel them because they refuse to look at the common sense outcome of the issues. The players are going to be huge losers in this no matter which way you look at it. They should just cut their losses before it gets worse for them and they have to go work in those "other leagues" that will be up and in operation this fall.
     
  10. i am dave

    i am dave Registered User

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    What did you intentionally misspell or intentionally do that was gramatically incorrect?
     
  11. Da Game

    Da Game Registered User

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    I agree. But with the NHLPA. This is about pride more than money. To me, it seems that the NHLPA rather go play in Europe, to prove that they can't be broken.

    I would rate this union second, only to the MLBPA.
     
  12. Munchausen

    Munchausen Guest

    Get paid well in Europe, says who?

    The WHA???

    The only option for the owners is the impasse?!

    Wow. I want some of what you're drinking. You're in total denial. If the owners do tell the truth and are losing less money by not playing than playing under the previous system, they have nothing to lose by holding out and everything to win. They also have a more solid backbone financially, fan support all over, and ultimatelly they're the ones with all the cards.

    The players are losing more and more by the minute, and not gaining anything, they're just holding on to the hope the owners will eventually cave like they did in the past. The union will start to fall appart if a deal isn't inked for the begining of next season.

    Do you really think the small guys, 4th liners/borderline players don't know they're playing their career here? They don't have enough money to hold forever and if a cap isn't agreed on and a few teams fold, they are out of job in the NHL. The players are holding on for dear life at this point.
     
  13. Da Game

    Da Game Registered User

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    It's a no-win for anyone involved in this process. But, the NHLPA will still make money during this lockout, no matter the amount their paid to play in the other league's around the world.
     
  14. Pepper

    Pepper Registered User

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    Heh, the average salary of NHL imports is 150K, or 1/10th of what NHL is offering them. Most major European leagues have a limit of 4 or 5 foreigners per team, for example Swedish and Finnish leagues have a theoretical maximum of 120 foreigners total.

    Then there's the taxing system...If those who played this year in Europe want to continue, their tax % will be around 50% next year,

    Many people believe that European leagues is a great option for NHLers...Well they are dead wrong.
     
  15. ti-vite

    ti-vite Registered User

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    Its an association, not a union.

    The WHA is/will be based on a hard cap a fraction of what the proposed cap level the NHL is tossing around...

    There are limits to the amount of players per team in the elite levels in europe and the pay is peanuts compared to NHL and when you factor insurance...unless they play in B leagues (ECHL)...

    Stay in Sweden for more than 6 months...look up the tax laws...its brutal...
     
  16. chiavsfan

    chiavsfan Registered User

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    In what? The amount of idiots? The NHLPA is the worst run union in professional sports. The MLBPA is a close second, especially after their "patchwork" steriod policy.

    They (NHLPA) can talk about not accepting a cap, holding out for 100 years, blah blah blah, until their blue in the face. Fact is, the big guys (superstars) are alienating the smaller guy (4th liners). That's why the smaller guys speak out, while the superstars are all magically "retracting" their statement.
     
  17. ti-vite

    ti-vite Registered User

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    If the NHLPA is paying 5k$ per month to some 700 members, thats alot of money per month to give the players...

    Sources of income to the NHLPA: merchandise? Yeah, I can see hockey cards and coffee mugs sales going through the roof real soon...

    What other revenu for NHLPA during lockout anyone?
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2005
  18. Da Game

    Da Game Registered User

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    Is 300,000 dollars tax free not good? Thats like the average over there in Europe.

    And as much as the Owners have the fans support here, the NHL players have even more support in Europe. Just recently, I was watching a show where some of the top OIL Company owners in Russia are ready to make a real hard effort to bring more and more NHL players to their country, and making a similar type of league to the NHL.

    I'm more scared to see that happen.
     
  19. You don't have a clue my friend. You are aware that all players who are over in Europe, save few in the RSL, are playing for expenses? All players are self insured, and are forced to insure the amount to cover their NHL contracts. That eats up pretty well all of what they are being paid. The players are making their "money" off of the per diem they get in Europe, which is a faction of what they get in per diem in North America. The players are not making money. Most of them would make more money off of the interest from their contracts. There is a reason why the majority of the big names are sitting at home working on their golf games. There is no money to be made in other leagues. I sure hope you go to court a little more prepared than you have walking into this forum. You've been crushed in each thread you've wandered into.
     
  20. Da Game

    Da Game Registered User

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    Some people wish they earned 4,000 a month.

    My whole point is, that the NHLPA is willing to take a beating now, and earn less money, as long as there's a system (CBA) put in place in their favor.
     
  21. buce

    buce Registered User

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    Isn't pride one of the seven deadly sins? If the players are doing this out of pride, they are making a giant mistake. The owners have all the leverage and they know it. That's why they gave them the same proposal last night. Let's look at the facts:

    1. The NHL is not the main source of revenue for 99% of the owners. It's a hobby or the perfect tax write-off
    2. So the players think they can go to Europe next year? First of all, the players quickly realized that it wasn't the high playing vacation they thought it would be. It's one thing to go over and play thinking it is only temporary, it's a whole another thing to drag your family to a country where culture and language is very different. Have you noticed the players who couldn't hack it over there. Most Euro leagues also have a limit on the number of foreign players. They simply can't import that many players, and they aren't going to change it so they can be used as a bargaining chip by the NHLPA. These Euro leagues still have to deal with the NHL after this gets settled and depend upon the transfer fees for extra cash. They won't piss off the NHL. Keep in mind the Euro leagues now know supply exceeds demand next fall. Contract offers will be even lower.
    3. WHA? Heh heh heh. Even if they get this thing off the ground, where the hell are they going to play. Most NHL teams own their arenas or have a lease on it. So these WHA teams are going to be playing out of some crummy minor league venues. Yeah I'm sure the money will be rolling in there. This isn't the 70s where the NHL was paying pittance and could entice players with crazy contracts. The NHL is now paying the crazy contracts...what is the incentive of the WHA as a bargaining chip. A shaky league, substandard venues, and a fraction of the salary that will probably not cover their insurance.
     
  22. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    Da Game beating the competing league drum. Too Funny
     
  23. Pepper

    Pepper Registered User

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    LMAO, you don't know what you're talking about. The average is ~ $150K and after you have played 6 months or more, the tax is 50%.

    When you're that clueless you're better off shutting up, otherwise you just embarass yourself.
     
  24. Bull. Total fabricated bull. Show me a link that states the average salary in Europe is $300K, tax free. No league in Europe, even the RSL has that type of money floating around. One team in Europe is paying big dollars, and that money is spent.

    You kill me. Do have any idea of the size of the buildings in Europe? Do you have any idea of the value of tickets? Do you have any idea how badly the fans would revolt to the suggestion you're putting forward? Wasn't the "NHL Stars Tour" more than enough to show you that the fans don't care? How many more NHL players have to be cut or quit on their own accord before you understand that Europe is not an answer?

    :teach:
     
  25. Volcanologist

    Volcanologist Used Register

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    Lame and unnecessary.
     
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