Alfredsson: We're willing to lose the season.

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Seachd, Jan 6, 2005.

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  1. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    My question is: For what?

    What could they possibly expect to get if the season is cancelled? How would it benefit them in any way in the end?

    Mike Brophy, who in the Hockey News last week called Bettman's stance "outrageous", said on the FAN 960 in Calgary yesterday that he spoke to a "high-profile" player on Jan. 4. This player, who has staunchly been dead set against a salary cap, told Brophy that he's starting to see things a bit differently. He wondered, if they sit out one or two seasons, what it will all be for in the end. He said he didn't see any way they'd get a better deal than the NHL's latest offer. He also said that if the NHL decided to use replacement players, he believes 50 % of union members would cross the line, and while he wouldn't be the first, he'd be "right there for number 2."

    Brophy told him to mass e-mail the other 700 members, because as soon as they all come to this realization, the better it will be for everyone.

    So I'm just wondering what Alfredsson's realistic long-term goals are if he's willing to lose the season.
     
  2. Blind Gardien

    Blind Gardien nexus of the crisis

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    Seems to me that Alfredsson has learned well enough from Goodenow, Bettman, Saskin, et al., that's all. Basically, he has to play hardball right up to the bitter end right along with them, since that's the way they're all "negotiating" right now. If he says anything else, the opposite side will take it as blinking, a show of weakness.
     
  3. tantalum

    tantalum Registered User

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    Too be honest as silly as it sounds neither side can come out and say "we are NOT willing to sacrifice the season". All it does if give all the leverage to the guys on the other side of the table. Saying that phrase just puts up the white flag.
     
  4. X8oD

    X8oD Registered User

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    if the seasons canceled, the NHLPA has lost all bargening Chips. All along everybody stated the owners cannot afford to lose the season, and they will cave in. They id it in 1994, they will do it now.

    Its a good question, what the hell do the players have to gain by sitting out the entire season. With the fan base all but lost, how the hell can they come to the table in the spring and say "we still wont play for a cap, and we will wait it out" meanwhile, the NHL goes infront of the judge, shows them their books, and declares an impasse.

    this is what the owners want. the players should call their bluff and throw out a proposal with 10-15% roll backs and a 40 mil cap. Far less than what the owners want, but finally puts the owners in a position to put up or shut up.

    so far the owners are calling the players Bluff, and the players are about to lose 1 year of pay because of it. When i can i expec to see Ville Nieminen or Marc Mowers bagging groceries with a nice sticker that says "NHLPA = NO CAP" on thier vest.
     
  5. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    Stating a willingness - even somewhat of an eagerness - to lose the season isn't hardball. It's stupid. It further alienates the players from the fans and makes it harder for the PA to make what, I believe, will be necessary concessions to get a deal done. Alfredsson should say the players are doing everything possible to save the season and he hopes the owners would take a similar position. It puts the onus on the owners and it makes the players seem as if they're trying to be reasonable.

    Also, I'm curious as to how the PA and their supporters continue to claim the owners won't negotiate when for the last week we've heard nothing from the players other than their refusal to come forward with an offer. Seems to me neither side is willing to negotiate.
     
  6. SuperUnknown

    SuperUnknown Registered User

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    Heck, I've been saying all along for a while that due to the current economics of hockey (the economic signs, like no local buyers for NHL teams with decent installations, tumbling franchise values, lack of profit expectation due to no expectable new revenue streams, etc), the owners had a big edge for these negociations. Furthermore, since the bulk of the net revenues (after expenses) go to the players, the players have more to lose as the lockout extends. Everyday that goes by without hockey creates a hole in the players collective pockets, while the owners don't lose much more than they would if they were to continue normal operations.

    Add to all this that the more profitable teams aren't necessarily the ones that provide the most exciting hockey (like the Minessota Wild) and that most teams pushing for a Stanley Cup end up in the red (because their investments REQUIRES major post-season success, which is limited to four teams, which means that there will be overspenders yearly). You can't expand the league's popularity when the owners can field a team for ice success OR book success. To reconcile those two, there needs to be a major revision of the way the league works economically.

    This is just analysis (obviously my own) but so far it seems pretty on the spot. How the NHLPA didn't consider this when approaching this CBA is beyond me. For sure, they had to try to get the best deal out there, but so far they have miserably failed because they don't seem to see that as days go by they are the only losers out there.

    Also, the quote above shows me that it's even more terrible for the players than I had thought. While they keep the hard stance, it seems that a "replacement players" strategy by the owners would work. If that player thinks he might be a replacement player for "number 2", then obviously he wouldn't hold anything against players that cross the line for number 1. Which is what's suppose to hold back players from crossing the line. If the NHL has information that players that cross the line won't see much repercussions after, they would be crazy not to go the replacement players route and get their way at 100% with the new cba.
     
  7. misterjaggers

    misterjaggers Registered User

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    If it's not a bluff, then the union leadership is braindead.
     
  8. Beatnik

    Beatnik Registered User

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    Someday the owner could come with a reasonnable offer and make things moves. Since the beginning, the players are negociating alone. A "normal" deal (similar to the NBA) could give them about 20-25% more salary than the pathetic joke the proprio offered them during the last nego. Even the NFL contract would give the players much more (about 16% (65%/54%)) than the current offer.
     
  9. sunb

    sunb Registered User

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    I've lost Alfredsson a lot of respect for Alfredsson as it was pretty dumb for him to come out and attack the game like this even if he is strenghtening the NHLPA's position. Alfredsson's a classy player but he's gotta back up what he says. Once may be a mistake but twice is foolish. He said Ottawa would win a cup and they didn't and if he really thinks the majority of NHL players are willing to lose the seaeson, then he is mistaken again.
     
  10. Beatnik

    Beatnik Registered User

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    1- I would'nt want a player on my team that does'nt think we will win.

    2- We'll see if the season is cancelled but i'd like to know how do you know that the players will accept anything to play this season
     
  11. struckmatch

    struckmatch Registered User

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    1 - Theres a difference between thinking you're going to win, and going public and predicting your team will win.

    2 - The Union leadership is nothing but moronic if they don't start negotiating cost certainty.
     
  12. Hockeyfan02

    Hockeyfan02 Registered User

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    It's hard to keep track how many people on both sides have said theyre willing to lose the season.
     
  13. sunb

    sunb Registered User

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    1 - Like Beatnik said, going public with the announcment that "we will win the cup" is foolish when he couldn't even lead his team to the conference finals. I also don't think the majority of the players in the NHL think they will win it all.

    2 - I don't know the players will accept anything to play this season but they would lose billions of of salary gross and also lose a lot of leverage. A lot of players would lose one year off their contracts (Yashin, Jagr, etc...) and teams would shed a lot of salary committment. The NHLPA's big bargaining chip is "the season" and if they decide to hold out, there will be nothing for them to pressure the NHL with.
     
  14. Jasper

    Jasper Registered User

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    Could've sworn that was the Alfredsson leading Sens against the Devils, game 7 conference finals two years ago.
     
  15. sunb

    sunb Registered User

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    I meant this year, after he made that monumental Messiah-esque
     
  16. BLONG7

    BLONG7 Registered User

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    Alfie has made his millions, go ahead and sit out with McCabe for the rest of your life....these guys are morons, there are a ton of players who will play for an avg. salary of 1.3M!
     
  17. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    You go, Alfie! :lol

    I am so going to laugh my head off when the players throw a billion dollars profit down the drain, in order to prevent losing a fraction of that. They will *never* make that back. Ever.
     
  18. quat

    quat winsome, loathsome

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    Like getting caught bluffing in poker.... how intelligent is it to keep uping the anti when you begin to realize that the guy you're betting against is holding a better hand and has a bigger bankroll. Of course, the reality is that for many compulsive gamblers, flaming out in the biggest way possible has a great deal of appeal. We will soon see how this plays out.
     
  19. Sinurgy

    Sinurgy 1) Rebuild 2) Repeat

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    Perhaps it's foolish pride that is fueling them to go down with the ship.
     
  20. Riddarn

    Riddarn 1980-2011

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    Hehe. No wonder a guy from Gothenburg is a hardball union representative :joker:

    (only a few, not even all swedes, will get that one. A clue: Gothenburg = Commies)
     
  21. rwilson99

    rwilson99 Registered User

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    How does a guy who played for a team that MISSED PAYROLL for about a month this stubborn. If he brought this irrational tenacity to the ice, maybe Ottawa would have won a Cup by now.

    Seriously... without a cap. Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Ottawa (all bankrupt, or nearly so in the last 3 years) would likely have to cease operations. A few more owners would soon stop throwing good money after a bad financial failure as well.

    Where is the NHLPA then, even if they WIN, they lose jobs for players.
     
  22. Volcanologist

    Volcanologist Used Register

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    Leading them where?
     
  23. struckmatch

    struckmatch Registered User

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    You know what, this whole statement from Alfredsson reeks of a PA posturing bluff. I think Alfredsson, for someone who is part of union leadership, and their executive committee, that he was a prime choice to make this statement from the PA's point of view.

    To me, this looks like one last attempt at trying to bluff the owners into capitulating, which isn't going to happen. I just can't see union leadership willingly flush a years income down the toilet to take part in a fight they have no chance in winning. If the PA doesn't save the season by commiting to cost certainty, Goodenow is leading his bun ch down a terrible financial path.
     
  24. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    That and foolish leadership. If they had much sense, they'd go negotiate and NBA-style cap that would make concessions to every one. Unfortunately for them, the longer they dig in their heels, the weaker they get.
     
  25. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest


    The foolishness of the leadership has been mind-boggling. When the former head of the MLBPA is dressing Goodenow down in public for his flawed tactics, then you know that things are seriously wrong with the PA's leadership.

    Sure you're being forced to take some bitter medicine. Agree to cost certainty, with the condition that the process begins with an independant forensic audit of all 30 teams finances. If the owners refuse, they will never get an impasse (if that is their goal) and more importantly, they will lose the public's support.

    The obvious question for PA supporters, is why the PA hasn't already called the league on this if they really believe the owners are fudging the books. Instead, they simply cling to the "philosophical" differences and "no-cap" stance.

    Could it be that they realize that league is indeed in trouble and that the "lack of trust" issue is just a smokescreen to hide their naked greed in maintaining an inflationary system at any cost?
     
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