Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[FireGerardGallant]

why don’t you two be like laf and become invisible?

 

[Machinehead]

Hey, I think we're fine. Sometimes it's less toxic to say what's on your mind.

It's been ten years. I have the attention span of a chicken nugget. If I didn't enjoy being here, I wouldn't be. I don't think it needs to be fixed.

Some people are toxic. That's life. Anywhere you go, anything you do, internet or not, that's the reality. You deal with it.

Drawing the lines where any take that's not "let's see how this plays out" is ruining the board isn't helpful.

We're on page 34 and I think 95% of what's been said in here is reasonable.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

I don't wanna make the coaching out to be a skeleton key but I don't think a single person here could tell you what our system is. That has to be hard on a young player.

Like, AV sucked his last few years here but I know him inside out. The Flyers are 31st in CF% and 1st in PDO. I could have told you that would happen back in the offseason. Cheat like crazy, play rope-a-dope in your own zone, and if you're not on an odd-man rush, dump it in, turtle, and try again later. That's AV hockey.

I can't even begin to describe Quinn hockey and this is his third season.

Rando here.........but when was the last coach picked out of college that did any good in the NHL? Babcock is the last one I can think of, and we all know where that went.

Maybe the sample size is too small, but I'm pretty allergic to the concept due to what I've seen from the NFL. Pete Carroll is the exception, and even he gets on everyone's nerves.

 

[Machinehead]

Rando here.........but when was the last coach picked out of college that did any good in the NHL? Babcock is the last one I can think of, and we all know where that went.

I never really thought about it. I guess they all have to start somewhere, right?

 

[Harbour Dog]

Hey, I think we're fine. Sometimes it's less toxic to say what's on your mind.

It's been ten years. I have the attention span of a chicken nugget. If I didn't enjoy being here, I wouldn't be. I don't think it needs to be fixed.

Some people are toxic. That's life. Anywhere you go, anything you do, internet or not, that's the reality. You deal with it.

Drawing the lines where any take that's not "let's see how this plays out" is ruining the board isn't helpful.

We're on page 34 and I think 95% of what's been said in here is reasonable.

McNugget or store-bought?

I think 95% may be a tad on the optimistic side, but you're probably right that just a few toxic areas may change the feel of larger sections of the board.

And it may just be the kind of thing that comes in waves. We're dealing with Deangelo drama and the anxiety of wanting our high picks to work out right now; as well as what's happening in the real world.

The analytics wars may have been an even more toxic time on the board, and that was a decade ago. Somebody would mention them in a thread, then people would pile on with hate and it would take off from there. And as a board, I feel like we've balanced out a bit on that topic (at the cost of silverfish).

Hopefully the same will happen with this.

edit - nah, the introduction to analytics wasn't quite this bad. But they were definitely a peak.

 

[Machinehead]

McNugget or store-bought?

I think 95% may be a tad on the optimistic side, but you're probably right that just a few toxic areas may change the feel of larger sections of the board.

And it just be the kind of thing that comes in waves. We're dealing with Deangelo drama and the anxiety of wanting our high picks to work out right now; as well as what's happening in the real world.

The analytics wars may have been an even more toxic time on the board, and that was a decade ago. Somebody would mention them in a thread, then people would pile on with hate and it would take off from there. And as a board, I feel like we've balanced out a bit on that topic (at the cost of silverfish).

Hopefully the same will happen with this.

Gotta be store-bought. Those McNuggets have a high IQ.

The DeAngelo thing was awful, yes, but that was a political discussion. Full stop. There's a reason those generally aren't allowed.

I think the analytics wars made us better, honestly. As you said we're balanced out on that topic and both sides have learned.

silverfish is just into his own stuff. And that tends to be a theme. Ultimately, those who decide to move on make their own decision. I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that they were chased away.

The Rangers have certainly been more fun but I've never enjoyed the Rangers board more than since the letter. I sit in the GDT's literally cracking up a lot of nights.

 

[RangersFan]

Has this organization ever developed high end talent from the CHL? I know it's been a while since they've drafted from the CHL in the first round but maybe for a reason? Who were the last CHL players they developed? Staal? It's really not far fetched at all to say this organization hasn't developed many CHL players. While I think Lafreniere will be fine in the long run (he's too talented not to), you can't help but wonder how much is this Organization hurting this kids development. I understand it's hyperbolic to say if he was drafted on any other team he would be producing but who seriously doesn't believe he would have more than 1 goal if he was playing for the Pens?

 

[Machinehead]

Has this organization ever developed high end talent from the CHL? I know it's been a while since they've drafted from the CHL in the first round but maybe for a reason? Who were the last CHL players they developed? Staal? It's really not far fetched at all to say this organization hasn't developed many CHL players. While I think Lafreniere will be fine in the long run (he's too talented not to), you can't help but wonder how much is this Organization hurting this kids development. I understand it's hyperbolic to say if he was drafted on any other team he would be producing but who seriously doesn't believe he would have more than 1 goal if he was playing for the Pens?

Well, the Pens might be a bad example because Crosby would be bouncing pucks in off his butt but yes, I think he would be doing better elsewhere.

Is it the coach? Maybe. I hope so. If it's not, we're really gonna have to take a look in the mirror.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Gotta be store-bought. Those McNuggets have a high IQ.

The DeAngelo thing was awful, yes, but that was a political discussion. Full stop. There's a reason those generally aren't allowed.

I think the analytics wars made us better, honestly. As you said we're balanced out on that topic and both sides have learned.

silverfish is just into his own stuff. And that tends to be a theme. Ultimately, those who decide to move on make their own decision. I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that they were chased away.

The Rangers have certainly been more fun but I've never enjoyed the Rangers board more than since the letter. I sit in the GDT's literally cracking up a lot of nights.

Your optimistic view of the board is a contagious one, Man. And I'm not going to be the grinch that argues with it.

Politics definitely created a bunch of havoc on here; both through Covid and ADA. As have the boxscores for our two top prospects.

All those things will be behind us within a year hopefully, then we'll see how the board fares when sailing is smoother. Here's hoping for peace on Earth and good will to mankind.

They say that McNuggets can draw the large intestine from memory, several days after being defecated.

 

[egelband]

So what you're saying, is that you decline to comment? Interesting.

Indeed. This Situation is - at best - a conflict of interest. Not a good look. Unprofessional, to say the least. And quite sordid.

 

[93LEAFS]

Rando here.........but when was the last coach picked out of college that did any good in the NHL? Babcock is the last one I can think of, and we all know where that went.

Maybe the sample size is too small, but I'm pretty allergic to the concept due to what I've seen from the NFL. Pete Carroll is the exception, and even he gets on everyone's nerves.

I never really thought about it. I guess they all have to start somewhere, right?

Rando here just seeing what is going on with Laf from your guy's perspective and saw the question. But, Babs was a guy developed through the more conventional CHL/AHL/NHL pipeline, he never coached NCAA. The most prominent example I can think of is Badger Bob Johnson, no idea if there was been one since who made the jump straight from college. Jim Montgomery looked good but he had off the ice problems that got him canned. I'll leave now.

 

[True Blue]

At this point you have to blame the organization. Year in, year out, every offensive prospect performs below even the lowest imaginable standards.

I think that it is stuff like this that makes some people bang their heads. The sheer ignorance is astounding. Fox, DeAngelo, Buchnevich, Chytil have ALL clearly performed below the lowest imaginable standards. And I take it that you view of Kakko's play is the same. He is performing below the lowest imaginable standard. Conclusions like this lead me to believe that people like yourself are not really watching the games at all. You are just coming here, reading the narratives and taking them as gospel.

Let's just take Lafreniere. Since this is his tread and he is one of the offensive prospects that is performing below even the lowest imaginable standard. His on ice shooting percentage is a hair over 2. That is comically low. But then look at where he is when it comes to being on the ice when his team has high percentage scoring opportunities. When it comes to on-ice expected goals, he is ranked right up there with some of the top players. What does that tell you? Tells you that a) he has been ridiculously unlucky and b) that he is setting up his line mates BUT they are also unlucky and wait for it.......players like Strome are his line mates.

But yeah. What an abject utter bust of a top prospect whose development is being destroyed. Yawn......

 

[True Blue]

why don’t you two be like laf and become invisible?

And then there are gems like this

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I think that it is stuff like this that makes some people bang their heads. The sheer ignorance is astounding. Fox, DeAngelo, Buchnevich, Chytil have ALL clearly performed below the lowest imaginable standards. And I take it that you view of Kakko's play is the same. He is performing below the lowest imaginable standard. Conclusions like this lead me to believe that people like yourself are not really watching the games at all. You are just coming here, reading the narratives and taking them as gospel.

Let's just take Lafreniere. Since this is his tread and he is one of the offensive prospects that is performing below even the lowest imaginable standard. His on ice shooting percentage is a hair over 2. That is comically low. But then look at where he is when it comes to being on the ice when his team has high percentage scoring opportunities. When it comes to on-ice expected goals, he is ranked right up there with some of the top players. What does that tell you? Tells you that a) he has been ridiculously unlucky and b) that he is setting up his line mates BUT they are also unlucky and wait for it.......players like Strome are his line mates.

But yeah. What an abject utter bust of a top prospect whose development is being destroyed. Yawn......

I'm not worried about him, at all, but he needs to "want it" a bit more. He wasn't getting the puck deep last night, turning it over at the blue line, and had no urgency in his game. He's got all the talent in the world he just needs to figure out how to best apply it at this level. Kakko has figured out he can impose himself on a game, he wants to. Laff will too.

 

[The New Russian Five]

I'm sure he's going to go into this off-season pissed at his performance and train his ass off. It happened with Kakko, and it will happen will Laf. The guy is too much of a competitor for him to be content with where he is at.

Can we please freaking hire a skating coach?? I have never seen a team that more desperately needs it.

 

[True Blue]

I'm not worried about him, at all, but he needs to "want it" a bit more. He wasn't getting the puck deep last night, turning it over at the blue line, and had no urgency in his game. He's got all the talent in the world he just needs to figure out how to best apply it at this level. Kakko has figured out he can impose himself on a game, he wants to. Laff will too.

Agreed. But again, Lafreniere is more of a facilitator than Kakko. And when he is on the ice, more often than not high probability scoring chances happen.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Agreed. But again, Lafreniere is more of a facilitator than Kakko. And when he is on the ice, more often than not high probability scoring chances happen.

That's fine, but I haven't seen him facilitate much of anything the last few games. It feels like I go periods at a time forgetting he's even on the team.

 

[True Blue]

That's fine, but I haven't seen him facilitate much of anything the last few games. It feels like I go periods at a time forgetting he's even on the team.

That is where I disagree. The stats tell you that when he is on the ice, high opportunity chances are generated. We know what Mika is not generating anything. We know Strome is not generating anything. Some sort of magic happens to give you those numbers.

Now, I am not saying that this has been even or that some games it does not appear more than others. Just looking at the overall picture.

 

[DialUp]

It's not the points Alexis doesn't score that matters, but the lafriends he makes along the way.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

That is where I disagree. The stats tell you that when he is on the ice, high opportunity chances are generated. We know what Mika is not generating anything. We know Strome is not generating anything. Some sort of magic happens to give you those numbers.

Now, I am not saying that this has been even or that some games it does not appear more than others. Just looking at the overall picture.

I don't know what the advanced stats say, I'll defer to you on that, but I can't recall an instance last night where I thought he was close to putting one in. Agree about Strome and Zib though. Maybe it's just his style of play but I just wish Laff looked a bit more assertive out there, he doesn't seem all that determined.

 

[CaptTennille]

I posted this on the Prospect boards, but i'll repost it here.

It looks like (to me) that Lafreniere is too deferential to his linemates. Whenever he gets the puck, he'll make a deft little pass through a seam and then try to get to the net, but the puck either never arrives or he gets a wack on it before the goalie freezes it. I would like to see him be more selfish and stretch his legs a bit with the puck on his blade, but he seems more committed to not being a weak link on his line than he is adapting his game to the NHL right now. The good news is that his play off the puck is pretty good for a rookie and despite not standing out offensively, he doesn't look lost or out of place.

What makes Lafreniere a unique talent is his economy of skill and his ability to leverage it to maintain possession and generate dangerous scoring chances and it seems like his game right now is in the pupal stage of that - He can recognize where he needs to be or who he has to try and get the puck to, but isn't comfortable/developed enough to use his vision and body language to orchestrate the field in front of him yet. If the early stages of a player like Stutzle is getting caved in possession wise but being able to flash the speed and shot at times, and the early stages of a player like Kakko was looking lost and too slow, but being able to score goals in close to the net simply with his smooth hands, maybe it's time to accept that Lafreniere's ground floor is being able to use his game sense to know where to be to make sure he is in the right spots, but not being able to leverage the rest of his tools to finish the job.

For the record, I'm not worried about him figuring out how to put the pieces together, and I frankly don't care if it takes him a season or two to start making a significant impact. I'll take the relief it should provide on his next contract and enjoy the finished product.

 

[True Blue]

I don't know what the advanced stats say, I'll defer to you on that, but I can't recall an instance last night where I thought he was close to putting one in. Agree about Strome and Zib though. Maybe it's just his style of play but I just wish Laff looked a bit more assertive out there, he doesn't seem all that determined.

Being not assertive can be interpreted as tentative. In which I agree, he certainly has looked that way. At times. But that is natural for a 19 year old in the NHL. He will learn.

 

[DialUp]

I try to watch him off the puck, and he seems a bit listless, stick a bit off the ice, just hanging around in traffic. But then I realize that even if he was open and primed no one would be able to get him the puck anyway so it's all a wash.

 

[Raspewtin]

I wish I had something good to say about him. I really do. I am not a fan of noticing Rooney and Blackwell more than Lafreniere in a game where half of their opposing forwards aren't NHL players.

Yeah yeah I get it there's a forcefield around the net for the Rangers but like, I hate to say it but there are a nice handful of players that have been way more victimized by that forcefield than Lafreniere.

He's just boring. He's like Kakko last year without the worst-in-the-league level defending. At least Kakko actually scored a little, lol

 

[TheDirtyH]

I wish I had something good to say about him. I really do. I am not a fan of noticing Rooney and Blackwell more than Lafreniere in a game where half of their opposing forwards aren't NHL players.

Yeah yeah I get it there's a forcefield around the net for the Rangers but like, I hate to say it but there are a nice handful of players that have been way more victimized by that forcefield than Lafreniere.

He's just boring. He's like Kakko last year without the worst-in-the-league level defending. At least Kakko actually scored a little, lol

Kakko was just like this over the first couple months. His metrics tanked through the season when he got latched to Howden.