Player Discussion Alexander Ovechkin (Vol. 2)

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kicksavedave

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I've always thought the narrative was a little lame.

I don't know that Ovechkin worked out any harder in '17 vs any other season.

IMO the most significant change is he stopped hitting so much. He was less battered late in the season and going into the playoffs.

I do find the "Now that the Caps won a cup, Ovechkin is a great leader" narrative to be more than a little dumbed-down. Pierre McGuire and a bunch of other idiots are pushing that narrative, but any time they ask Ovechkin or any Capitals player about what Ovechkin is doing differently, the answer is "I don't know."

He was clearly in better shape going into 2017/18 than any year prior, and then again this year, so thats what he did differently. Why he decided in the summer of 17 to get into better shape is debatable, but discounting Trotz counseling him as being a contributing factor just shows a bias against Trotz. One would have to get into OVi's mind to know the full truth but Trotz did go there, he did talk to Ovi about being lighter and faster, and Ovi did do those things. These are facts, not opinions.
 

kicksavedave

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Prideful athlete coming off one his worst years, team was gutted so he would be relied upon more in the regular season whereas in previous years all that mattered was peaking in May. It's not like if Trotz didn't go to Russia he would have sat on his ass all offseason.

Thats purely speculation, not fact based at all. But I will concede that those other things you mention could have contributed to Ovi getting into better shape. Suggesting Trotz had nothing to do with it is just bias though.
 

Silky mitts

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Thats purely speculation, not fact based at all. But I will concede that those other things you mention could have contributed to Ovi getting into better shape. Suggesting Trotz had nothing to do with it is just bias though.
I will grant you I am speculating that Trotz had no influence on his diet/fitness routine but I am very confident he wasn't going to sit on his ass all offseason.
 
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Raikkonen

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Assuming Trotz could change anything is silly. Surely it was Ovi's new young wife who forced him to change preparation... try to argue!
 
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Raikkonen

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They were married in Aug 2016, so why didn't that change his prep for the 2016/17 season?
So you want to argue?! Do you have a wife? Did she change since the day of wedding? Did she press you to do something from day 1? Ofc Nastya needed some time, she was very young.
 

kicksavedave

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So you want to argue?! Do you have a wife? Did she change since the day of wedding? Did she press you to do something from day 1? Ofc Nastya needed some time, she was very young.

You're literally just throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks. You and I know absolutely nothing about Ovi's relationship with Nastya, nothing about how she motivated him or not, nothing about how much time to grow she needed before she may or may not have started giving him career advice, not a single thing, so you're purely speculating.

But we know for a fact that BT went to Moscow with a singular purpose and a very specific message. And we know for a fact that following that visit and message, Ovi responded with the best conditioning of his career. And we know for a fact that Ovi's production went back up in 17/18 (but NOT in 16/17) and Ovi won the Conn Smythe.

We don't know for a fact that it was Trotz talk that motivated him, but we have plenty of evidence to suggest it. We have ZERO evidence that marrying Nastya was the cause of his turnaround, only loose speculation. There's nothing to argue about there.
 

Raikkonen

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Highly unlikely it was some of his physical attributes what changed, right? So it was something mental.

No coach managed to change his Autumn shape much and why would Trotz suddenly achieve that? It was his last try... not the first. I bet his message was more or less the same as usual.

Otoh, the illnesses of his own father and Nastya's mother could and should have put things into perspective for him.

So who would he fight for, his close relatives or Trotz?
 

Raikkonen

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Correction, everything about Raikkonen's posts are random speculation. I'm stating facts about what happened and the following results, and speculating that they are related.
Facts are easy to find. Trotz had 4 years of talking with Ovi 24/7.

How would you know him visiting Russia once changed Ovi so much?

That claim is 100% speculation.
 
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kicksavedave

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Here's the real, bigger issue, it should not get lost in this silly debate. Ovi re-committed himself to fitness in the summer of 2017, and the results speak for themselves. Whatever motivated him to do that isn't really important, its only important that it happened. And while there are a LOT of reasons the Caps won the Cup, Ovi leading the way with his entire game, his full 200 foot commitment, and his relentless effort, it all paid off.

This discussion started because Pierre said he looks different but he couldn't figure out what/why. I pointed out that he re-dedicated himself that summer and lead by example in every way. Its a compliment to Ovi. Thats my point. Who cares what caused it, he did it.
 

kicksavedave

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Facts are easy to find. Trotz had 4 years of talking with Ovi 24/7.

How would you know him visiting Russia once changed Ovi so much?

That claim is 100% speculation.

I've admitted I don't know how much the "talk" caused the change, but its a fact he flew to Moscow. I don't believe he had ever done that before.

You're acting like you know the pillow talk with him and Nastya is the sole reason for the change. Laughable.
 

g00n

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I used to take a lot of flak on here for questioning Ovi's leadership. We all saw the Fat Ovi picture, and the Controller Disconnected episode. Right or wrong, accurate or false, there were questions about Ovi's commitment and therefore his leadership by example. Regardless of how it happened, it seems pretty clear that Ovi has completely rededicated himself to being the very best player he can be, starting last summer (2017), maybe triggered by Trotz visit to Moscow. His newfound commitment to fitness and arriving in the best shape of his life two years in a row, is awesome to see. Its a huge part of what helped him lead us to a Cup, and it will be what keeps him playing at a high level for much longer, extending his great career.

Ovi has truly become the leader both on and off the ice that he always needed to be, and the results show. Kudo's to Ovi, its great to see him finally achieving everything he was always capable of.

Eh, this kind of reads like a backdoor "I told you so, Ovie did suck as a leader but he changed his lazy, irresponsible ways so I was still right"post-facto non-admission of misjudgment. It wasn't that you were wrong about him, it's that he fixed himself! Is that you, Mad Mike? ;)

Whoever pushed the issue, we don't know that Ovie's preseason fitness had anything at all to do with "the results" of last season, and all indications his entire career (other than your one episode of hearsay) pointed to a respected leader in the locker room who busted his ass for the team when it mattered most. He ALWAYS led by example and put the team on his back.



Last season's change was undoubtedly, and per player comments, affected by a different attitude toward their process and their goals. "We're not going to be f***ing suck this year" followed by a calm confidence and lack of panic or fear is one of the most powerful messages a leader can send to subordinates. And here is his longtime linemate saying as much.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...e-isnt-reining-it-yet/?utm_term=.f8158566557c
“It looks like he’s in the best mode ever,” Backstrom said. “He’s just laughing all the time, which is great. He’s going to carry this over, I think. The way he was playing last year and the way he was relaxed, too, I think it’s just unbelievable for us in the locker room to see -- how he carries himself.”

According to the article he came in last year 4 lbs lighter. That's basically insignificant. You can fluctuate that much during the course of a single day. I think they're pushing the fitness narrative because it's the easiest and doesn't get reporters started on questions about the more complex elements. It's also the narrative/explanation that former Caps/Ovechkin-haters prefer because it pins the blame for a decade of failure on the "lazy Russian".

“The most important thing is I want to be healthy,” Ovechkin said. “I want to play with him when he’s going to be 10 or 12. And I want to see how he grow; that’s the most important thing for me. Of course, it’s not going to be only one kid.”

As a new father I can completely understand. I care much, MUCH more about my health these days because I want to be around for my child as long as possible. It's likely that Ovechkin, knowing he was going to have a baby and possibly a boy he would name after his late brother, found a maturity and clarity regarding his personal and professional life and goals that carried over. And from that came a vision. Last year I think they all really, finally believed there was no "curse" and that their destinies were in their own hands.

There were dozens of factors that contributed last season, and Ovechkin was already a HOF player with no peers. I doubt a decade's worth of teams were doomed because the greatest goalscorer of a generation was 4lbs heavy coming into camp.
 

Raikkonen

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Yeah, I think mental state >>> lbs difference easily.

But I think they lost the fear by being defeated so many times before. Just didnt care about losing much.

Thats my theory anyway.
 
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