Prospect Info: Alexander Holtz (Part II)

TrufleShufle

Registered User
Aug 31, 2012
7,742
12,030
But it's not an extreme case nor very different at all. Zacha got drafted high after having a good draft year then slumped literally until this seasons, while having every excuse made possible for why his game has struggled and he hasn't progressed to what we should have realistically expected from a 6oa pick.

Holtz had a great draft year, started off hot then slumped while also having legitimate excuses for why he slumped. It is as close of a fair comparable as you could possibly make. Wanting say Rossi over Holtz is fine, the same way wanting Barzal over Zacha would have been fine too!

My point in all of this is how ironic it is that many of the posters that have pumped Zacha and given every excuse and been very patient with him are the same ones bashing Holtz. Now I have been a critic of Zacha while also wanting him to succeed. I wanted Holtz and I did not expect him to come out close to finished product besides scoring the most random of goals because his shot is sensational. Every prospect should be given a fair shake and the fact that it is pick and choose is getting exhausting.
See this is where we part ways, I'm not seeing multiple posters bashing Holtz. From what I've seen, it was one person saying he "feels" like Holtz is going to be a bust. How he feels that this early, I haven't the slightest idea, but it's not making me feel the urge to defend Holtz to him. What do you say to that? If someone "feels" something that random...."ok?".

Not sure why it just can't be ignored, there is nothing anyone can say to change his "feeling." Maybe that same poster always had a good "feeling" about Zacha. Who knows? Who cares?
 
  • Like
Reactions: NJDevs26

TheDuke93

Registered User
May 29, 2017
2,832
2,386
NJ
See this is where we part ways, I'm not seeing multiple posters bashing Holtz. From what I've seen, it was one person saying he "feels" like Holtz is going to be a bust. How he feels that this early, I haven't the slightest idea, but it's not making me feel the urge to defend Holtz to him. What do you say to that? If someone "feels" something that random...."ok?".

Not sure why it just can't be ignored, there is nothing anyone can say to change his "feeling." Maybe that same poster always had a good "feeling" about Zacha. Who knows? Who cares?
I was more or less referencing the whole timeline including when he was drafted and did not include that so that is my bad, sorry lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: trufleshufle13

Billdo

Registered User
Oct 28, 2008
19,358
16,185
Ocean County
But it's not an extreme case nor very different at all. Zacha got drafted high after having a good draft year then slumped literally until this seasons, while having every excuse made possible for why his game has struggled and he hasn't progressed to what we should have realistically expected from a 6oa pick.

Holtz had a great draft year, started off hot then slumped while also having legitimate excuses for why he slumped. It is as close of a fair comparable as you could possibly make. Wanting say Rossi over Holtz is fine, the same way wanting Barzal over Zacha would have been fine too!

My point in all of this is how ironic it is that many of the posters that have pumped Zacha and given every excuse and been very patient with him are the same ones bashing Holtz. Now I have been a critic of Zacha while also wanting him to succeed. I wanted Holtz and I did not expect him to come out close to finished product besides scoring the most random of goals because his shot is sensational. Every prospect should be given a fair shake and the fact that it is pick and choose is getting exhausting.
I'm going to be honest. I don't get the "slumped every year" part. His point total increased from year 1 into year 2. Year 2 into year 3 his point total remained the same but he scored 5 more goals. 3 into 4 he increased his point total by 7. We all know this years stats for him. So he didn't "slump" every year. Sure he may have been disappointing to some based off his draft position but I don't get this viewpoint tbh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tretyak 20

TheDuke93

Registered User
May 29, 2017
2,832
2,386
NJ
I'm going to be honest. I don't get the "slumped every year" part. His point total increased from year 1 into year 2. Year 2 into year 3 his point total remained the same but he scored 5 more goals. 3 into 4 he increased his point total by 7. We all know this years stats for him. So he didn't "slump" every year. Sure he may have been disappointing to some based off his draft position but I don't get this viewpoint tbh.
Sorry you are right I can't say he statistically slumped. I do not think he got any better from year 1-5. He showed no actual signs of improvement in any meaningful way besides increasing his point totals which are random to some extent. I should have said spun tires which I do believe is totally fair to say about Zacha. So my bad on not saying what I actually meant to say.

This year he took a tangible step forward which led to more promising production that I think can be built upon. He shot the puck way more, 22 times more in 15 less games 1.49s/g to 2.06s/g.

I don't think his defense has improved by any tangible margin, although the last 5 games or so he did seem to find another gear compete wise.
 

mdj12784

Registered User
Sep 19, 2006
2,617
1,654
Sayreville, N.J
Zacha never slumped. He just didn’t put the work/effort in. He looked dominant, and then disappeared. Hopefully these last two seasons are the “new” Zacha that wants it. God I hope so...
 
  • Like
Reactions: nugg

PKs Broken Stick

Registered User
Oct 9, 2008
8,890
4,409
Zacha never slumped. He just didn’t put the work/effort in. He looked dominant, and then disappeared. Hopefully these last two seasons are the “new” Zacha that wants it. God I hope so...

we just need him to miss a wide open net again in game 1 next season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdj12784

Goomba

Mario is a Devils fan
May 7, 2021
730
491
Sorry you are right I can't say he statistically slumped. I do not think he got any better from year 1-5. He showed no actual signs of improvement in any meaningful way besides increasing his point totals which are random to some extent. I should have said spun tires which I do believe is totally fair to say about Zacha. So my bad on not saying what I actually meant to say.

This year he took a tangible step forward which led to more promising production that I think can be built upon. He shot the puck way more, 22 times more in 15 less games 1.49s/g to 2.06s/g.

I don't think his defense has improved by any tangible margin, although the last 5 games or so he did seem to find another gear compete wise.
Thats just not true and unfair to Pavel; to claim he hasnt gotten any better since year one.

In fact Im not sure I even think you meant what you said since its suggesting hes had absolutely no player development since nineteen years okd
 

TrufleShufle

Registered User
Aug 31, 2012
7,742
12,030
I never remember him looking dominant at any point in time besides last seasons pre season.
Don't take this the wrong way, because even though we disagree I enjoy talking/disagreeing with you about whatever, but with statements like this it seems you are doing exactly what you are accusing others of, but the inverse.
 

TheDuke93

Registered User
May 29, 2017
2,832
2,386
NJ
Don't take this the wrong way, because even though we disagree I enjoy talking/disagreeing with you about whatever, but with statements like this it seems you are doing exactly what you are accusing others of, but the inverse.
I am genuinely curious as when he has looked dominant. Has he had stretches of play were he looked good, absolutely. But to say he has been dominant is a massive stretch at any point prior to this season. Please I would love to know when.
 

TheDuke93

Registered User
May 29, 2017
2,832
2,386
NJ
Thats just not true and unfair to Pavel; to claim he hasnt gotten any better since year one.

In fact Im not sure I even think you meant what you said since its suggesting hes had absolutely no player development since nineteen years okd
Thats not what I said.
 

Setec Astronomy

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
2,626
1,786
He’s Alex Nylander. Hopefully he can be packaged in a deal for someone good before the rest of the league figures it out.
 

Billdo

Registered User
Oct 28, 2008
19,358
16,185
Ocean County
He’s Alex Nylander. Hopefully he can be packaged in a deal for someone good before the rest of the league figures it out.
giphy.gif
 

Setec Astronomy

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
2,626
1,786
I don't think they are very similar as players, maybe others feel differently, but they are both swedish, so I guess there's that?

The Swedish part has nothing to do with it. They’re top ten drafted forwards who had poor production in their D+1 years.
 

Setec Astronomy

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
2,626
1,786
tell me you've never watched Holtz play without TELLING me you've never watched Holtz play.

He was drafted to score goals at the NHL level, and has yet to show he can do that particularly well in the SHL or AHL. Can you show me a list of players drafted where he was with that kind of production that turned into really good NHL players?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unknown Caller

Devils731

Registered User
Jun 23, 2008
12,202
16,120
He was drafted to score goals at the NHL level, and has yet to show he can do that particularly well in the SHL or AHL. Can you show me a list of players drafted where he was with that kind of production that turned into really good NHL players?

He had similar production at his age to Jacob Josefson, Zibanejad, and Anze Kopitar. Significantly better than Patrick Hornqvist, who has a nice career.

Production may not tell the whole story for 18/19 year olds playing in a men’s league. Player development and drafting would be easy otherwise. I’ll cut you off on using his 10 AHL games as a significant barometer.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->