Prospect Info: Alexander Holtz (Part II)
- Thread starter Zajacs Bowl Cut
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glenwo2
LINDY RUFF NEEDS VIAGRA!!
Goomba
Mario is a Devils fan
- May 7, 2021
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Is that picture from Star Trek with an edit? Or is it literally top gun?
"Moonshine? At 14? How Peculiar, Number One."
aboriginal
lou ****ing sucks
My point is valid no? I am not trying to compare the two players because they are very different but I am so sick and tired of people flip flopping patience if "they like the player".
I am not saying we need to because he doesn't need to develop into a shot first player to be who we drafted him to be. Zacha had to reinvent himself into the player he already was in Sarnia as well as be used properly. I am not worried about any of this with Holtz.
Billdo
Registered User
Well it's par for the course around here. You can question certain guys but not the others. Take Jim for example. He questioned Hughes so far. Aside from calling him a disgrace which was asinine, I think some of his concerns were/are valid. Feeling like Holtz may bust is fine, it's wayyyy too early to say that but it's fine to feel that way after a "down year". I also feel like I'm going to hit the lottery today. I'm probably wrong but it's ok to feel something one way or another despite what this board says.
TrufleShufle
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2012
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The difference with Zacha and every other player people gave up on is Zacha kept showing he could do it. It wasn't just Tedenby or Yayo style "flashes," he had games and stretches where he lived up to exactly what he was suppose to be. It showed everyone that he could play at this level and very effectively, but just needed to start doing it.
If Hotlz has off nights, but also dominate nights for the next 5 years where he looks like a legit NHL player for stretches, he will get the same treatment.
Tao Jersey Jones
Registered User
Probably had something to do with being crosschecked in the mouth in the previous game against Hershey.
Lou is God
Registered User
Who is stopping anyone from questioning prospects?
Oneiro
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2013
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If you put an opinion out there, it's going to get criticized either way. Shouldn't stop you from posting but expect to take heat if there's a shred of reason against it.
This is such a colossal misreading or misremembering of the constant gaslighting, goalpost-shifting, and data snooping that Jim called 'questioning'. I think it's fine to question anything, go ahead, but be prepared to face pushback.
Billdo
Registered User
not necessarily stopping but if you question certain players people sometimes have to deal with backlash.
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
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A lot of it is also WHEN you start questioning guys. Doing it before they turn 20 should get more pushback than doing it with a guy like Zacha before this year. In the case of Holtz or Muhk it comes off like draft confirmation bias.
Lou is God
Registered User
Well yeah, it is a message board after all, if someone is going to make a strong opinion about a player they should expect pushback and be challenged. I know I've defended Hughes but that's because some of the takes on him were, well, bad.
- Dec 20, 2018
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That’s not it though. I criticized the specific argument in post, which was based on raw point totals from a truncated stint in a very odd AHL season at the end of a very odd D+1 year.
And they said bust, which is a basically a useless call this early. And that’s true even if he busts later on. Your mileage may vary.
Are people touchy about top prospects? Sure. Could someone want a different guy at 7th then and/or now? Sure. Can you be down on prospects? Sure but I don’t personally don’t have a lot of patience for whining and that’s what it felt like. (That might not be fair of me and that might be own flaw.)
Jim has had terrible takes on Hughes forever though. After last season he said Hughes’s biggest issue was not his shot or size or adjustment to the NHL competition, it was really his hockey IQ. Jim argued that Jack looked completely lost on the ice and literally didn’t know what he was doing, then expressed bushels of concern over the idea that he couldn’t ever get any better. I can can dig up the post, it wasn’t as punchy and melodramatic as the “disgrace” one but it was just as over the top as he argued that Jack didn’t do well in any part of the game. It’s one thing to point out Hughes’ limitations but even last year “debilitating lack of hockey IQ” wasn’t one of them.
We can’t debate our feelings about these players even though that’s what probably drives a lot of these discussion. You don’t just get points for not liking a player though without a specific argument why and then that specific argument has to be reasonable.
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MauDevils
Registered User
Aside from his hot start, Holtz looked pretty mediocre in three different levels of hockey this year.
Regardless of what this board seems to think, it is actually possible for a young prospect to produce.
Regardless of what this board seems to think, it is actually possible for a young prospect to produce.
- Dec 20, 2018
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MauDevils
Registered User
You wouldn't around here. Just a lot of age and circumstancial excuses.
Devils731
Registered User
- Jun 23, 2008
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Take away the part where he played well and it was all bad. Who knew?
Regardless of what this board seems to think, it’s quite possible to be a good prospect and struggle for extended periods.
Darkauron
Registered User
STI has noted multiple times that Holtz is talented but is not a line driver and needs to be paired properly to maximize his ability. He just didn't connect again after his early stint in the SHL. Hopefully NJ finds a good match for hi in Utica where he can settle in.
But anyone who has seen him play even a little bit has seen him have stretches of pure domination. The kid was an animal to start the year lol.
TrufleShufle
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2012
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That's fair, but not everyone watches every non NHL game and just glance at stats. All I was saying was Zacha was an anomaly in the "giving up on players" game, that's why he got so long and so many chances from so many posters. I agree it's crazy to write off Holtz now, but you can't compare him to the extreme case who is Pavel "I wait until the last person has finally lost faith and turn it on" Zacha.
But it's not an extreme case nor very different at all. Zacha got drafted high after having a good draft year then slumped literally until this seasons, while having every excuse made possible for why his game has struggled and he hasn't progressed to what we should have realistically expected from a 6oa pick.
Holtz had a great draft year, started off hot then slumped while also having legitimate excuses for why he slumped. It is as close of a fair comparable as you could possibly make. Wanting say Rossi over Holtz is fine, the same way wanting Barzal over Zacha would have been fine too!
My point in all of this is how ironic it is that many of the posters that have pumped Zacha and given every excuse and been very patient with him are the same ones bashing Holtz. Now I have been a critic of Zacha while also wanting him to succeed. I wanted Holtz and I did not expect him to come out close to finished product besides scoring the most random of goals because his shot is sensational. Every prospect should be given a fair shake and the fact that it is pick and choose is getting exhausting.
