Player Discussion Alexander Edler | Pending free agent, possible TDL commodity. What should be done?

[PM]

Edlers current contract was a f***ing steal when it was signed and the cap was way lower back then. If you could still access the old signing thread you would see that literally everyone from every team was calling it an amazing deal.

Any contract with less than $6mil per year Avg is a fantasy. Wouldn’t be surprised if he got $6.5mil or more at 5+ years. We just signed a 33 year old fourth line center to a 4 year deal for comparison.

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

And even then, Benning noted, there is no guarantee that a draft pick near the end of the first round will turn into an NHL player.
“The numbers speak for themselves if you go over the history of the draft,” he said. “If you’re looking at the top five picks, they have a chance more often than not to become impact players over time. But if you look at the bottom five picks in the first round, some of those guys don’t even play."


I have some shocking news for Mr. Benning: Teams with Top 5 picks are not buyers at the deadline.

This is our general manager. My God. We will never be sellers. We will never rebuild. The more I hear this man speak, the more convinced I am that he has a genuine mental disability. I would be sympathetic if he weren't making millions of dollars running the hockey team I follow into the ground with his "re-tools." This NHL old-boys club really doesn't help the cream rise to the top, does it?

No draft pick is a guarantee, but the more picks you have, especially in the first round, the more chances you have to find a real player; the more chances your scouting staff have to strike out. If outcomes were guaranteed, no deal would ever get done in the NHL. In fact, no one would play the sport, and no one would watch it either! This man is an idiot. By his logic, any draft pick beyond the first round is worthless. But didn't he just pull off a blockbuster trade for a 7th round pick a year and a half from now? Restocking the cupboard!

As long as Benning blindly follows his master's instructions his job is safe. Aquilini has pared management down to boot-lickers and yes-men. Anyone who stood up to the dynamic-duos boneheaded ideas, like Gilman, are gone, and much happier for it.

Benning talks as if an extra pick in the first round is worthless because there's no guarantee you'll get a superstar! Unbelievable. We have four lines to fill and only 3 young players who aren't garbage! We need all the draft picks we can get!

 

[hellstick]

If I was GM of this team, getting Edler to waive his NTC with a guaranteed contract offer for July 1st would be my move. I would keep that offer on the table up until the trade deadline while feeding the media answers like, "we'll continue to pursue all avenues to improve this club for now and in the future." I wouldn't talk about signing Edler and not trading any draft picks. Everything would be on lockdown. But a plan must be followed and I'm not convinced Benning has a plan aside from hoping for no injuries and trying to draft real gud.

Which leads me to a discussion of how Benning conducts himself to the media. If I was the agent for Alex Edler, I would be jumping with joy. Just by playing Benning like a fiddle, I bet you he can get another 1M for his client. Remember when Benning acquired Brandon Sutter and immediately claimed he was a "foundational" player before he needed to be signed? Same scenario. He's sorely mistaken if he thinks people aren't listening to his comments regarding his players (or even other teams players, lol).

 

[Phenomenon13]

If I was GM of this team, getting Edler to waive his NTC with a guaranteed contract offer for July 1st would be my move. I would keep that offer on the table up until the trade deadline while feeding the media answers like, "we'll continue to pursue all avenues to improve this club for now and in the future." I wouldn't talk about signing Edler and not trading any draft picks. Everything would be on lockdown. But a plan must be followed and I'm not convinced Benning has a plan aside from hoping for no injuries and trying to draft real gud.

Which leads me to a discussion of how Benning conducts himself to the media. If I was the agent for Alex Edler, I would be jumping with joy. Just by playing Benning like a fiddle, I bet you he can get another 1M for his client. Remember when Benning acquired Brandon Sutter and immediately claimed he was a "foundational" player before he needed to be signed? Same scenario. He's sorely mistaken if he thinks people aren't listening to his comments regarding his players (or even other teams players, lol).

It's part of benning's charm to be "candidly honest". Remember that tampering charge? That's some risky business. We could've lost a pick or two.

Is it legal to trade a guy and then promise him to sign him again in the offseason? Sounds like a grey area and possible tampering ?

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I honestly don’t understand the reason ppl are mad at JB on this Edler situation.
From all the reports, Edler clearly doesn’t care about winning a cup enough to waive his NTC.

So...are we mad at JB because he’s too much of a “nice guy” that he won’t force/threat Edler to waive???

I thought most of us agree that threatening Edler is a bad idea.

Or are we mad at him because he straight up saying “ we will resign Edler”, which kills off all the glimps of hope of an Eder trade.

Or are we mad at his comments on late first round picks, which was obviously a naive way to justify not trading Edler. I am surprise that ppl actually believe those non sense.

 

[Phenomenon13]

I honestly don’t understand the reason ppl are mad at JB on this Edler situation.
From all the reports, Edler clearly doesn’t care about winning a cup enough to waive his NTC.

So...are we mad at JB because he’s too much of a “nice guy” that he won’t force/threat Edler to waive???

I thought most of us agree that threatening Edler is a bad idea.

Or are we mad at him because he straight up saying “ we will resign Edler”, which kills off all the glimps of hope of an Eder trade.

Or are we mad at his comments on late first round picks, which was obviously a naive way to justify not trading Edler. I am surprise that ppl actually believe those non sense.

Lol re-sign Edler without NTC and move him

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Not many teams, even rebuilding ones, trade their best defenseman for picks.
I’d look at trading Tanev if a good offer came along but it would have to be a very good one.

 

[Var]

I honestly don’t understand the reason ppl are mad at JB on this Edler situation.
From all the reports, Edler clearly doesn’t care about winning a cup enough to waive his NTC.

So...are we mad at JB because he’s too much of a “nice guy” that he won’t force/threat Edler to waive???

I thought most of us agree that threatening Edler is a bad idea.

Or are we mad at him because he straight up saying “ we will resign Edler”, which kills off all the glimps of hope of an Eder trade.

Or are we mad at his comments on late first round picks, which was obviously a naive way to justify not trading Edler. I am surprise that ppl actually believe those non sense.

Ya exactly. My feeling is that those late first round picks comments were just his way of downplaying a bad situation. It doesn't sound like he had the option to trade Edler so why not trash talk the picks. Now I don't believe he really thinks that they're not extremely valuable, but what the hell is he going to do if he doesn't have that option available to him?

And this "force him out" nonsense, I tell ya. The only person with cards to play is Edler. If they don't want to resign him in the summer, so be it. But you can't force him to do anything. This implied threat of "he'll be benched if he doesn't move" shows some real character. He can ride pine for two months and all you'll have accomplished is demonstrated what a prick you are to the team and the rest of the league. On top of that, you'll have snubbed a fantastic defenseman who should be a slam dunk to sign.

 

[Bleach Clean]

And this "force him out" nonsense, I tell ya. The only person with cards to play is Edler. If they don't want to resign him in the summer, so be it. But you can't force him to do anything. This implied threat of "he'll be benched if he doesn't move" shows some real character. He can ride pine for two months and all you'll have accomplished is demonstrated what a prick you are to the team and the rest of the league. On top of that, you'll have snubbed a fantastic defenseman who should be a slam dunk to sign.

You're wrong. They absolutely can force him out. They did this same thing with Hamhuis and Garrison. Neither one wanted to leave. What cards did they play?

They should let Edler walk. They should prove to Edler and the rest of the guys in the locker room that no one player is bigger than the franchise, unless you are the franchise.

 

[Var]

You're wrong. They absolutely can force him out. They did this same thing with Hamhuis and Garrison. Neither one wanted to leave.

They should let Edler walk. They should prove to Edler and the rest of the guys in the locker room that no one player is bigger than the franchise, unless you are the franchise.

They can't force him out. They can choose to treat him like garbage but the way the contract is written with Edler, it's up to him. You can try to tell people treating him poorly is a good idea because he may decide to waive if you do, but there's still no guarantee he'll waive.

But let's be clear - if he doesn't waive, he's not "bigger than the franchise", he is afforded the option to remain here because he fought for it while negotiating. If a franchise doesn't want this problem, then don't offer people NTC's. It's that easy. But to sit here and pretend that there are trade options that are within the control of JB, you're 100% mistaken. And even begrudging Edler's power to stay is basically being a poor sport. He earned it, that's how it goes.

Now I understand that you're frustrated by it because without the NTC, it would be a case of the franchise leaving value on the table by not trading him. We get it, and sure, we're still rebuilding and the prospect of getting more draft value is very appealing. But that's not where we are.

 

[Bleach Clean]

They can't force him out. They can choose to treat him like garbage but the way the contract is written with Edler, it's up to him. You can try to tell people treating him poorly is a good idea because he may decide to waive if you do, but there's still no guarantee he'll waive.

But let's be clear - if he doesn't waive, he's not "bigger than the franchise", he is afforded the option to remain here because he fought for it while negotiating. If a franchise doesn't want this problem, then don't offer people NTC's. It's that easy. But to sit here and pretend that there are trade options that are within the control of JB, you're 100% mistaken. And even begrudging Edler's power to stay is basically being a poor sport. He earned it, that's how it goes.

Now I understand that you're frustrated by it because without the NTC, it would be a case of the franchise leaving value on the table by not trading him. We get it, and sure, we're still rebuilding and the prospect of getting more draft value is very appealing. But that's not where we are.

How are the contracts written for Hamhuis and Garrison again? How about Burrows?

I never said there was a guarantee he will waive. It's a possibility though, and with the right GM, even a probability. This is not that GM.

Benning's biggest mistake was in relaying that there was a possibility to re-sign Edler at all. To Edler and his agent, this means that they can lean on their NTC until Benning caves and re-signs him. It's either a trade or re-signing at that point. Benning faces the dilemma. That said, if he chooses to let Edler walk, does Edler get what he wants? Nope.

Once the decision is made to let Edler walk, then Edler is put to a dilemma: Either waste 2 extra months here, or give his career a shot elsewhere (likely playoff team). At that point, as a business person, he must consider waiving. If he doesn't consider waiving, he's hurting his future potential earnings.

That was the way to get Edler to waive. Now, it's all academic.

 

[Intangibos]

This is not about management's incompetence forcing them to re-sign a decent-good player. This is about the GM's ability to push someone out of the organization if he wants to, and what is in the player's best interest to do at that point.

Benning wanted Hamhuis out, even though Hamhuis wanted to stay. Hamhuis had an NTC and it was waived. Benning then botched the deadline.

Benning wanted Garrison out, even though Garrison wanted to stay. Garrison had an NTC and it was waived. Benning botched the sequence of the first deal to STL, and then Garrison was eventually traded to TBay.

Disgruntled players waive NTCs. Even this low-level manager has gotten 2 players to do exactly this in the past. Two hometown players no less!

Edler is not a special snowflake. I have no doubt in my mind that a competent GM could get him to waive. Benning? Probably not. That's what I think of Benning's ability to get things done.

You're wrong. They absolutely can force him out. They did this same thing with Hamhuis and Garrison. Neither one wanted to leave. What cards did they play?

They should let Edler walk. They should prove to Edler and the rest of the guys in the locker room that no one player is bigger than the franchise, unless you are the franchise.

I think the issue is that you're confusing the capability of an action with the viability of it.

Obviously both Garrison and Hamhuis were mishandled in different ways, but they were "forced" out. Bieksa should be included as well. The thing is that they were forced out because, in the eyes of management and the fans, "we didn't need them". We have Gudbranson and Sbisa, after all. Unfortunately this team is so bad that it's clear to everyone, even management, that Edler is not a player we can afford to lose as there is no hope of replacing him.

It's fine to send a message to players that you can't be above the franchise, but Edler actually has more leverage. While Edler isn't "the franchise", this franchise is significantly worse without him. In fact, even if Edler was willing to go I would not move him unless there was a conditional pick coming back that if he signs there we get more, and I would want there to be some type of "understanding" with Edler and his agent that we want to sign him July 1.

While in retrospect losing Hamhuis and even Garrison were pretty damaging to this team, they wouldn't have been under good management and with other quality D on the roster like Edler and Tanev with Hamhuis, and Hamhuis with Garrison, it seemed reasonable to ship them out and bring in more youth. Now if we lose Edler our de facto #1 veteran LD is Hutton and our depth is Juolevi, Pouliot and Hughes (and we should not be counting on a rookie to replace a player like Edler, even if that rookie is Hughes).

We are capable of forcing Edler out, but it just isn't a viable option. I'm also capable of running across the highway in traffic but it still isn't a good idea.

Edler can only be moved if we have a realistic chance of signing him July 1, he is by far the most important defenceman on this team.

 

[DarrenX]

And this "force him out" nonsense, I tell ya. The only person with cards to play is Edler. If they don't want to resign him in the summer, so be it. But you can't force him to do anything. This implied threat of "he'll be benched if he doesn't move" shows some real character. He can ride pine for two months and all you'll have accomplished is demonstrated what a prick you are to the team and the rest of the league. On top of that, you'll have snubbed a fantastic defenseman who should be a slam dunk to sign.

Yep. This is a ridiculous threat, for the simple reason that it's not credible. We say: "waive your NTC or we'll bench you", Edler says "no", the TDL passes... and what? We're actually going to put a healthy Edler in the press box? Suuuure we are... if we don't want to sell tickets.

The player has an NTC. It's up to him whether he goes. Deal with it.

(not to mention the fact that this crappy team actually has a shot at the playoffs, and as long as that is the case then ownership will never, not ever, sign off on trading Edler. Unless one of you buys the team in the next three weeks it isn't happening so there's little point in speculating about it).

 

[Bleach Clean]

I think the issue is that you're confusing the capability of an action with the viability of it.

Obviously both Garrison and Hamhuis were mishandled in different ways, but they were "forced" out. Bieksa should be included as well. The thing is that they were forced out because, in the eyes of management and the fans, "we didn't need them". We have Gudbranson and Sbisa, after all. Unfortunately this team is so bad that it's clear to everyone, even management, that Edler is not a player we can afford to lose as there is no hope of replacing him.

It's fine to send a message to players that you can't be above the franchise, but Edler actually has more leverage. While Edler isn't "the franchise", this franchise is significantly worse without him. In fact, even if Edler was willing to go I would not move him unless there was a conditional pick coming back that if he signs there we get more, and I would want there to be some type of "understanding" with Edler and his agent that we want to sign him July 1.

While in retrospect losing Hamhuis and even Garrison were pretty damaging to this team, they wouldn't have been under good management and with other quality D on the roster like Edler and Tanev with Hamhuis, and Hamhuis with Garrison, it seemed reasonable to ship them out and bring in more youth. Now if we lose Edler our de facto #1 veteran LD is Hutton and our depth is Juolevi, Pouliot and Hughes (and we should not be counting on a rookie to replace a player like Edler, even if that rookie is Hughes).

We are capable of forcing Edler out, but it just isn't a viable option. I'm also capable of running across the highway in traffic but it still isn't a good idea.

Edler can only be moved if we have a realistic chance of signing him July 1, he is by far the most important defenceman on this team.

First, I’m glad you understand that players can be forced out. This is the main thrust of my argument. Now that this is out of the way, we can move onto the other part of the argument which is: The viability of moving Edler from this D corps.

Should they move him? Probably not. While it’s not a good idea to sign a 33 year old to a long-term deal, Benning is so inept at building the defense outside of Edler that Edler himself becomes irreplaceable. The same is true of Tanev.

Then again, I would argue that under good management even Edler would not have been a need, like your examples of Hamhuis and Garrison. So while I understand that it is not viable for this management team to let Edler walk, I reject the paradigm by which this decision was made. Edler isn’t critical in isolation, he’s critical with Benning as GM.

 

[Superlative Soup]

Edler likely left money on the table to make sure he had a NTC negotiated in. It's obviously something he prioritizes highly. All Benning can do is ask him to waive it which he has done several times.

When it's all said and done Edler is going to be the franchise leader for almost every category on defense. He's been good and faithful soldier, he's earned the right to stay here.

 

[racerjoe]

For some here I feel like we are beating a dead horse. Edler himself said he would move on if he felt he wasn’t wanted. Therefore what ROE says is 100% right.

Is it the best move for the team? That could be debated. Is it a possibility if Jim talks about maybe keeping him, Edler probably doesn’t feel unwanted now does he?

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Lol re-sign Edler without NTC and move him

Well at least only re-sign him with a limited NTC, where he has to give a list of teams he would be ok moving to... I’ve heard some rumours that they many ask for that on the last year or 2 of his contract.

I’d rather the NHL do away with these NTC/NMC... for those players who are worthy than they should have to give a list of teams they’d accept a trade to... 6-10ish team list.

 

[4Twenty]

Anyone thinking he's going to sign here without full protection is just fooling themselves.

 

[vancityluongo]

Report: Blackhawks Will Ask Keith About Deadline Trade

So while the 3 time (in the last 7 years) Cup champion Chicago Blackhawks are about to ask their TOP-100 PLAYER OF ALL TIME* to waive his NTC for the purposes of a re-build, following their first f***ing losing season in a decade last year, (with their two other TOP-100 ALL TIME PLAYERS at the ripe old age of 30), the Vancouver Canucks are remiss to ask 32 year old Alexander Edler to do the same. Neat.

That also despite Keith having 4 years left on his contract.

I would legitimately quit watching hockey if Toews won another Cup after the Blackhawks rebuilt their team before the Canucks.

*Obviously not actually a top-100 player of all time, but jfc

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Report: Blackhawks Will Ask Keith About Deadline Trade

So while the 3 time (in the last 7 years) Cup champion Chicago Blackhawks are about to ask their TOP-100 PLAYER OF ALL TIME* to waive his NTC for the purposes of a re-build, following their first ****ing losing season in a decade last year, (with their two other TOP-100 ALL TIME PLAYERS at the ripe old age of 30), the Vancouver Canucks are remiss to ask 32 year old Alexander Edler to do the same. Neat.

That also despite Keith having 4 years left on his contract.

I would legitimately quit watching hockey if Toews won another Cup after the Blackhawks rebuilt their team before the Canucks.

*Obviously not actually a top-100 player of all time, but jfc

Dont think how can they move the contract but that's another story

 

[ChilliBilly]

Chicago is not Vancouver. We have no idea if Keith likes living there, but his contract is horrible.

Edler likes VCR. Assuming he plans to continue playing hockey, as I have previously stated, give him his choice of no NTC, a NTC and a NMC. Put a big number on the protection. Like close to a million for each.

He has been our best D man this year, and for pretty much for the last decade. We will not be able to replace him for less than we are paying him. Personally I want to sign him for 2 years @ $4M (+/-) and give him a NMC.

I suspect if all he cares about is money, he can sign with someone for $ 6 - 6.5 M for 5 years.

But at some point you stop caring only about money. I quit working when I was 53. Cost me lots of money, but screw it, life is good.

 

[Szechwan]

Calgary looking for a veteran LHD at the deadline, seems like a good fit. Not far from home for him, and they have a nice pipeline of young defense to send back the other way.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Calgary looking for a veteran LHD at the deadline, seems like a good fit. Not far from home for him, and they have a nice pipeline of young defense to send back the other way.

No chance, JB straight up said that he’s resigning Edler, the dude is the most honest person on this planet

 

[Josepho]

For some here I feel like we are beating a dead horse. Edler himself said he would move on if he felt he wasn’t wanted. Therefore what ROE says is 100% right.

Is it the best move for the team? That could be debated. Is it a possibility if Jim talks about maybe keeping him, Edler probably doesn’t feel unwanted now does he?

Do you have the exact quote on this? "Move on" doesn't necessarily mean "go to another team". There's a good chance it means he'd retire.

 

[Szechwan]

No chance, JB straight up said that he’s resigning Edler, the dude is the most honest person on this planet

That... is very true. Touche.

No 4D chess when it comes to Jim.