Speculation: Alex Tanguay trade

[De Montreal]

At the times, it was considered a good move by Bob Gainey and with good reasons. The team was heading it's centennial year, coming off a pretty good season in 2008. Expectations were high and it was a good idea to add firepower to an already good offensive team.

Tanguay played to it's expectations, with 41 points in 50 games but then he got injured and played hurt in the playoff. We all know how it ended.

Still, looking back at the day of the trade, on draft day, I cant help but wonder what could have happened if we didnt trade for Tanguay. We gave up a 1st and a 2nd round pick which didnt amount to anything (Greg Nemisz and Stefan Elliott) but lot of good players were picks right at those ranks : John Carlson, Roman Josi, Vyacheslav Voynov in 2008 and Brian Dumoulin, Dimitry Orlov, Tomas Tatar, Tyson Barrie, Bryan McNabb and Reilly Smith in 2009.

We just drafted Subban, McDonagh and Fischer so it's unlikely we would have went for a dman with those picks. With Leblanc drafted in 2009, it's likely we would have went with Nemisz or another centreman in 2008 (Deschamps? Leveille?). In 2009, in the 2nd round, we might have went with the BPA which made me believe we could have gotten Panik or Dumoulin.

All this is under the assumption that we don't trade those picks for another player. Other players made available this summer were Mike Cammalleri (ironically), traded as well for a 1st and a 2nd, Olli Jokinen (traded for a 2nd, Ballard and Boynton), Erik Cole (traded for Pitkanen), Rene Bourque (this is getting weird), and Robert Lang (which we also got anyway).

It's also the summer we traded Grabovski for Pateryn and tried to sign Mats Sundin.

Let say it work differently, that we trade our picks for Cammalleri instead and keep Grabovski. We also keep our 2010 2nd round pick instead of trading for Robert Lang and with that pick we select Tyler Toffoli.

A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - Cammalleri
S. Kostitsyn - Grabovski - Latendresse

I think this help us being a better team in 2008 (Tanguay and Koivu didnt mesh that well except for a stint at the end of the season, and with Cammalleri Koivu finally get a real sniper to play with) and in the future (with Grabovski and Toffoli being 2nd line centre on this team for the next 5-6 years). This is obviously just speculation but it's summer and I have nothing to ponder about some of those what if scenarios and share them with you.

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[Andrei79]

I disagree about Timmins not going for a D. McCagg used to say Carlson was his pick. Timmins confirmed it years later and it didnt stop him from drafting D in '10 and '11.

Whatever. This team traded the picks that would've been Carlson and Girard and traded Subban, Sergachev and McDonagh.

You'd think, at some point, we'd get used to it.

 

[DAChampion]

At the times, it was considered a good move by Bob Gainey and with good reasons. The team was heading it's centennial year, coming off a pretty good season in 2008. Expectations were high and it was a good idea to add firepower to an already good offensive team.

Tanguay played to it's expectations, with 41 points in 50 games but then he got injured and played hurt in the playoff. We all know how it ended.

Still, looking back at the day of the trade, on draft day, I cant help but wonder what could have happened if we didnt trade for Tanguay. We gave up a 1st and a 2nd round pick which didnt amount to anything (Greg Nemisz and Stefan Elliott) but lot of good players were picks right at those ranks : John Carlson, Roman Josi, Vyacheslav Voynov in 2008 and Brian Dumoulin, Dimitry Orlov, Tomas Tatar, Tyson Barrie, Bryan McNabb and Reilly Smith in 2009.

We just drafted Subban, McDonagh and Fischer so it's unlikely we would have went for a dman with those picks. With Leblanc drafted in 2009, it's likely we would have went with Nemisz or another centreman in 2008 (Deschamps? Leveille?). In 2009, in the 2nd round, we might have went with the BPA which made me believe we could have gotten Panik or Dumoulin.

All this is under the assumption that we don't trade those picks for another player. Other players made available this summer were Mike Cammalleri (ironically), traded as well for a 1st and a 2nd, Olli Jokinen (traded for a 2nd, Ballard and Boynton), Erik Cole (traded for Pitkanen), Rene Bourque (this is getting weird), and Robert Lang (which we also got anyway).

It's also the summer we traded Grabovski for Pateryn and tried to sign Mats Sundin.

Let say it work differently, that we trade our picks for Cammalleri instead and keep Grabovski. We also keep our 2010 2nd round pick instead of trading for Robert Lang and with that pick we select Tyler Toffoli.

A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - Cammalleri
S. Kostitsyn - Grabovski - Latendresse

I think this help us being a better team in 2008 (Tanguay and Koivu didnt mesh that well except for a stint at the end of the season, and with Cammalleri Koivu finally get a real sniper to play with) and in the future (with Grabovski and Toffoli being 2nd line centre on this team for the next 5-6 years). This is obviously just speculation but it's summer and I have nothing to ponder about some of those what if scenarios and share them with you.

Acquiring Tanguay was the right move. The 2008 team had been very good, but was undermined by Price being a rookie, and by having a small shortage of offensive firepower. Gainey tried and failed to get Lecavalier, Hossa, Sundin. If Sundin had not been a douchebag to Toronto management, he could have helped lead the Habs to a Stanley Cup in 2008:

S.Kostitsyn-Sundin-Kovalev
A.Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Higgins
Grabovsky-Koivu-Latendresse
Metropolit, Begin, Lapierre, Smolinski, Chipchura, etc.

That roster would have had no issue scoring on Martin Biron in the 2nd round.

The 2009 team was arguably a good team that was severely undermined for injuries. It is easy to say that with hindsight, but I don't know if it would have been that obvious at the time. By the time it lost in the playoffs it had lost each of Markov, Schneider, Tanguay, Koivu, Higgins, Latendresse, Lang, and whoever else for significant lengths of time. With hindsight, we can argue that Gainey should have sold off at the 2009 deadline, or made fewer deals in the summer of 2009.

 

[jaffy27]

Opening up old wounds......not a good idea

 

[DAChampion]

McCagg used to say Carlson was his pick. Timmins confirmed it years later and it didnt stop him from drafting D in '10 and '11.

Should we consider them reliable?

Timmins makes a lot of excuses. Didn't he also claim that he was made to draft Leblanc, but really wanted Kreider?

Here's two claims that I consider reliable:
1) Marc Staal was his 2nd choice in 2005;
2) They considered Terevainen in 2012;

 

[DAChampion]

Opening up old wounds......not a good idea

Would you rather we keep perseverating on active wounds?

 

[Andrei79]

Should we consider them reliable?

Timmins makes a lot of excuses. Didn't he also claim that he was made to draft Leblanc, but really wanted Kreider?

Here's two claims that I consider reliable:
1) Marc Staal was his 2nd choice in 2005;
2) They considered Terevainen in 2012;

When it comes to Timmins, McCagg is reliable from years reading him. He's always had legitimate inside info there. I dont have percect memory here, but I do recall this being said before Carlson even stepped on NHL ice.

Girard,it came from multiple sources including Timmins himself right after the draft.

Those two I tend to believe. Dont believe what he said about Getzlaf or Kreider however.

 

[jaffy27]

Would you rather we keep perseverating on active wounds?

I’m speechless......I stand corrected.

 

[De Montreal]

Should we consider them reliable?

Timmins makes a lot of excuses. Didn't he also claim that he was made to draft Leblanc, but really wanted Kreider?

Here's two claims that I consider reliable:
1) Marc Staal was his 2nd choice in 2005;
2) They considered Terevainen in 2012;

Yeah I mean, Timmins has an unlimited reserve of get out of jail cards with those excuses. No one know for sure, so he's free to say he wanted X player 5 years after the pick. Could you imagine him being asked ''Who did you wanted with that 25th pick in 2008'' and him admitting ''I was so high on that Corey Trivino kid! I thought he was a sure bet for sure!'' He'd lost all credibility. But fun to look back and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[FloJack]

Tanguay blew and got mostly secondary assists, probably the softest Hab I've ever seen too.

Revisionist history on his one season here really annoys me. People look at the numbers and conclude he was good, he drove less plays than Pacioretty.

 

[De Montreal]

Tanguay blew and got mostly secondary assists, probably the softest Hab I've ever seen too.

Revisionist history on his one season here really annoys me. People look at the numbers and conclude he was good, he drove less plays than Pacioretty.

He was a pretty good complimentary winger. We would have had more success with a guys like Cammalleri. I really wonder if he was at all under Gainey radar, both had the same profile of being former high pick and undersized/skilled winger but one being more of a shooter. I think that really what was missing on this team, with Kovalev being the only sniper

 

[lamp9post]

Trading for Tanguay was fine.

The real blunder that offseason was not retaining Streit. The guy ended up a top pairing D for the next 6 years and we lost him for nothing. Not only that, but we then bled draft picks for bandaid solutions like Wizniewski and Schneider to replace Markov when he got injured.

 

[le_sean]

f*** Tanguay. When they were playing Game 4 against the Bruins he decided to stay out even though he was able to play. I never respected him after that.

Friggin Saku suited up with broken ribs and a collapsed lung one season and this loser had a hurt shoulder.

 

[scrubadam]

Gainey wanted to go for it and traded for an offensive winger.

It didn't turn out the right way, but if we won a cup then it would be a different story. Can't fault him for using a pick to try and turn this team into a cup favorite.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

The real disaster in 2008 was trading Huet, that single move cost the habs their best shot at a cup.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

We traded a first and second rounder for Tanguay then ended up having Georges Laraque playing on our top line in the playoffs lol.

 

[No More Subban]

I actually loved that offseason. Tanguay and Lang really made the team deeper. Add Schneider too.

Injuries ****ed everything up for us.

 

[le_sean]

The real disaster in 2008 was trading Huet, that single move cost the habs their best shot at a cup.

I don’t believe that for a second. Both Price and Halak were better than him.

 

[scrubadam]

Trading for Tanguay was fine.

The real blunder that offseason was not retaining Streit. The guy ended up a top pairing D for the next 6 years and we lost him for nothing. Not only that, but we then bled draft picks for bandaid solutions like Wizniewski and Schneider to replace Markov when he got injured.

Thats basically the story of Gainey.

Lost Kovalev/Komi/Koivu for nothing. Lost Beachimen for nothing. Lost Hainsey for nothing. Ribs for Ninima might as well say nothing.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Trading for Tanguay was fine.

The real blunder that offseason was not retaining Streit. The guy ended up a top pairing D for the next 6 years and we lost him for nothing. Not only that, but we then bled draft picks for bandaid solutions like Wizniewski and Schneider to replace Markov when he got injured.

We should've traded Komi instead to have the cap space.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

That season fell apart when Robert Lang went down for the season. So sad, we looked like a cup favorite and he was the perfect fit for 3c. That was the last year I really loved this team. Such a fun group of players.

 

[scrubadam]

We should've traded Komi instead to have the cap space.

Gainy wasn't thinking like MB to make CAPSPACE our number 1 player

 

[DAChampion]

I don’t believe that for a second. Both Price and Halak were better than him.

Price wet the bed in the 2008 playoffs.

 

[Scintillating10]

At the times, it was considered a good move by Bob Gainey and with good reasons. The team was heading it's centennial year, coming off a pretty good season in 2008. Expectations were high and it was a good idea to add firepower to an already good offensive team.

Tanguay played to it's expectations, with 41 points in 50 games but then he got injured and played hurt in the playoff. We all know how it ended.

Still, looking back at the day of the trade, on draft day, I cant help but wonder what could have happened if we didnt trade for Tanguay. We gave up a 1st and a 2nd round pick which didnt amount to anything (Greg Nemisz and Stefan Elliott) but lot of good players were picks right at those ranks : John Carlson, Roman Josi, Vyacheslav Voynov in 2008 and Brian Dumoulin, Dimitry Orlov, Tomas Tatar, Tyson Barrie, Bryan McNabb and Reilly Smith in 2009.

We just drafted Subban, McDonagh and Fischer so it's unlikely we would have went for a dman with those picks. With Leblanc drafted in 2009, it's likely we would have went with Nemisz or another centreman in 2008 (Deschamps? Leveille?). In 2009, in the 2nd round, we might have went with the BPA which made me believe we could have gotten Panik or Dumoulin.

All this is under the assumption that we don't trade those picks for another player. Other players made available this summer were Mike Cammalleri (ironically), traded as well for a 1st and a 2nd, Olli Jokinen (traded for a 2nd, Ballard and Boynton), Erik Cole (traded for Pitkanen), Rene Bourque (this is getting weird), and Robert Lang (which we also got anyway).

It's also the summer we traded Grabovski for Pateryn and tried to sign Mats Sundin.

Let say it work differently, that we trade our picks for Cammalleri instead and keep Grabovski. We also keep our 2010 2nd round pick instead of trading for Robert Lang and with that pick we select Tyler Toffoli.

A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - Cammalleri
S. Kostitsyn - Grabovski - Latendresse

I think this help us being a better team in 2008 (Tanguay and Koivu didnt mesh that well except for a stint at the end of the season, and with Cammalleri Koivu finally get a real sniper to play with) and in the future (with Grabovski and Toffoli being 2nd line centre on this team for the next 5-6 years). This is obviously just speculation but it's summer and I have nothing to ponder about some of those what if scenarios and share them with you.

Tanguay was one of our first failed center attempts. Sundin refused to sign here. We got a decent one from the Wings then he took his ACL first month of season. Then Gomez....never ending sage

 

[OneSharpMarble]

I don’t believe that for a second. Both Price and Halak were better than him.

Do I need to go into how Price looked like shit and had his confidence ruined in those playoffs? Or maybe how Huet played excellent all season and then even better in his short playoff run? Or maybe I should mention how Gainey traded Huet for NOTHING USEFUL, essentially gambling the entire season for the amazing reward of a 2nd round pick. Doesn't matter if you believe or not, it happened.