Player Discussion: Alex Killorn

[Volodya Krutov]

Okay.

...

A career .5ppg player is not even producing at that rate. What more perspective is there?

Look, we're on the same page but you can't brush his 2 past playoffs runs aside because it doesn't fit your narrative. As variable as a playoffs performance can be, it's not that usual to see some guys constantly finding another gear come playoffs time. Maybe Killorn is one of them, maybe he's not, but we can't judge without knowing.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I like Killorn and think he's done a lot for the team in the playoffs but I think we have to expose him to the expansion draft. Vegas will take him too. That money will really come in handy. I would trade a defenseman in Garrison or Coburn and then with the money left over from signing Johnson, Palat and Drouin we should go after a defenseman. Maybe Shattenkirk. Trade Namestnikov. Bring over Gusev. Maybe resign Boyle.

Gusev Stamkos Kucherov
Palat Johnson Drouin
Gourde Point Callahan
Dumont Boyle Erne

Hedman Shattenkirk
Coburn Stralman
Sustr Dotchin
Koekkoek

 

[Rschmitz]

Replace Sustr with Koekkoek and you'd probably have unanimous agreement

 

[HoseEmDown]

Namestnikov > Killorn

 

[Todd1a]

I like Killorn and think he's done a lot for the team in the playoffs but I think we have to expose him to the expansion draft. Vegas will take him too. That money will really come in handy. I would trade a defenseman in Garrison or Coburn and then with the money left over from signing Johnson, Palat and Drouin we should go after a defenseman. Maybe Shattenkirk. Trade Namestnikov. Bring over Gusev. Maybe resign Boyle.

Gusev Stamkos Kucherov
Palat Johnson Drouin
Gourde Point Callahan
Dumont Boyle Erne

Hedman Shattenkirk
Coburn Stralman
Sustr Dotchin
Koekkoek

Why expose killorn ? Yzerman could trade him before the draft and get assets! Then protect vladdy or someone else

 

[CupsOverCash]

Why expose killorn ? Yzerman could trade him before the draft and get assets! Then protect vladdy or someone else

If you could trade him and get something good back great. Either way I think we're a better team without his salary. Also think Vladdy has shown his best here. Which isnt much. Wouldn't mind him gone in the expansion draft. If Killorn, Namestnikov, and Sustr were gone from our team next year I wouldn't cry.

 

[Todd1a]

If you could trade him and get something good back great. Either way I think we're a better team without his salary. Also think Vladdy has shown his best here. Which isnt much. Wouldn't mind him gone in the expansion draft. If Killorn, Namestnikov, and Sustr were gone from our team next year I wouldn't cry.

I don't like the fact we paid killorn! If we didn't we could have extended kucherov longer 5 or 6 years! Now in two years we got to deal with a kucherov extension! And it's going to cost more! Then if we did it this past summer.

 

[CupsOverCash]

I don't like the fact we paid killorn! If we didn't we could have extended kucherov longer 5 or 6 years! Now in two years we got to deal with a kucherov extension! And it's going to cost more! Then if we did it this past summer.

I can see why we did it. We wanted Killorn for another run this year. He also deserved it after his two playoff performances. What I am happy with is that we aren't stuck with his contract. We could easily expose him to the draft and he does have value in a trade. I just wish he was a more consistent player and if he was he would be worth his salary. But salary is the most important thing for this team right now and if your not living up to it you are vulnerable to trade. Palat and Johnson will have a chance to prove themselves down the stretch here and will make one last statement on why they should be paid more than 5 mil a year. They haven't been great regular season players the last couple of seasons.

 

[DFC]

I like Killorn. But that contract was kind of shocking, both in term and money.

 

[These Are The Days]

We don't really have anyone that can replace Killorn right now. If we're gonna **** can anyone it needs to be Namestnikov -who has been effectively displaced by Brayden Point for weeks now. Assume that Callahan comes back 100% next year and you can slot him with Palat and Johnson.

Drouin-Stamkos-Kucherov
Palat-Johnson-Callahan
Erne-Point-Killorn
Paquette-(Boyle)-Brown

This is probably the best lineup we will have ever had. The roles of the players are clearly defined. There's less pressure on Cooper to mix his lines up because the amount of useless floaters who don't do anything will be cut down and he won't have to worry about getting them going. And we'll have sufficient enough center depth to roll 4 scoring lines if we can make the play for Brian Boyle in the offseason.

All said that's a lineup with multiple 30 goal scorers (Stamkos/Kucherov) another who can score 20 in Johnson and no less than 5 or 6 guys who can score 15 goals in Drouin, Palat, Callahan, Killorn, Point and Hedman.

I would like to see the Lightning make a play for an offensive defenseman because a combined 6 goals and 33 points between Garrison, Stralman and Coburn is simply not acceptable. Especially when Hedman is more productive than all of them put together. I'm not even gonna talk about Sustr. I've washed my hands of that trainwreck.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Why expose killorn ? Yzerman could trade him before the draft and get assets! Then protect vladdy or someone else

You trade Killorn to protect Namestnikov and we lose Dotchin or Koekkoek. We could possibly get a Dotchin or Koekkoek type player for Killorn so it's a wash. So there's not really any benefit of trading Killorn unless the return is better than what we would lose in a Dotchin or Koekkoek and with his play and salary is don't think we'll come out ahead in a trade. We also free up more money losing Killorn which is an added bonus.

The best we can do is talk to Vegas and see who they like more of between Killorn and Namestnikov and try to work out some other deals if we expose the one they want the most. Use their interest in one of them to rid ourselves of Garrison or Condra in a trade or pick up another teams exposed player in a deal.

 

[HoseEmDown]

We don't really have anyone that can replace Killorn right now. If we're gonna **** can anyone it needs to be Namestnikov -who has been effectively displaced by Brayden Point for weeks now. Assume that Callahan comes back 100% next year and you can slot him with Palat and Johnson.

Drouin-Stamkos-Kucherov
Palat-Johnson-Callahan
Erne-Point-Killorn
Paquette-(Boyle)-Brown

This is probably the best lineup we will have ever had. The roles of the players are clearly defined. There's less pressure on Cooper to mix his lines up because the amount of useless floaters who don't do anything will be cut down and he won't have to worry about getting them going. And we'll have sufficient enough center depth to roll 4 scoring lines if we can make the play for Brian Boyle in the offseason.

All said that's a lineup with multiple 30 goal scorers (Stamkos/Kucherov) another who can score 20 in Johnson and no less than 5 or 6 guys who can score 15 goals in Drouin, Palat, Callahan, Killorn, Point and Hedman.

I would like to see the Lightning make a play for an offensive defenseman because a combined 6 goals and 33 points between Garrison, Stralman and Coburn is simply not acceptable. Especially when Hedman is more productive than all of them put together. I'm not even gonna talk about Sustr. I've washed my hands of that trainwreck.

We have Erne, Gourde and then a bunch of kids coming up who can replace Killorn soon. Keeping Killorn hurts us capwise going forward and he's not enough of a difference maker that we need him in the lineup. Callahan has a contract that is far worse that's not moveable, Killorn is at the point where we need to move it before his NTC kicks in and his play deteriorates.

Putting Point at 3C is great but it stymie his offensive growth. The top 3C's are around 30 points players which is close to what Point is now. You keep him there and he doesn't take the next step offensively, it's better to get him in the top 6 where you get the most out of his talent.

Namestnikov is what he is, he's a 30 points 3C which is league average but is also much cheaper to keep than Killorn. If Killorn is just going to be a 35 point winger and Namestnikov a 30 point center yet be more than half the price it's an easy decision. Erne might not hit 30 next year and I'm not sure what Callahan will look like so the 3rd line might dip next year but the top 6 should be even more deadly with Point there instead of Callahan or Killorn.

 

[Sky04]

We don't have anyone who can replace a streaky winger who goes on 20 game cold streaks?

Rather save 5-10 points and 3m in salary for a replacement and sign some ufa looking for a bounce back season. 4.45m off the books is worth more than killorns actual play eapecially since its locked in for 6 more years

 

[Rschmitz]

Just too many other good options to lock onto him for that price. Even if he was playing at a .5 ppg clip instead of this horrible run he's on, it's a contract that handcuffs Yzerman almost as much as Callahan. You can't pay two players over $10 million to play on the third line

 

[Todd1a]

You trade Killorn to protect Namestnikov and we lose Dotchin or Koekkoek. We could possibly get a Dotchin or Koekkoek type player for Killorn so it's a wash. So there's not really any benefit of trading Killorn unless the return is better than what we would lose in a Dotchin or Koekkoek and with his play and salary is don't think we'll come out ahead in a trade. We also free up more money losing Killorn which is an added bonus.

The best we can do is talk to Vegas and see who they like more of between Killorn and Namestnikov and try to work out some other deals if we expose the one they want the most. Use their interest in one of them to rid ourselves of Garrison or Condra in a trade or pick up another teams exposed player in a deal.

Sure I agree but that contract stopped us from signing kucherov for 6 years vs 3 years! And still does not make sense? We got tons of good forwards in our system!

 

[HoseEmDown]

Sure I agree but that contract stopped us from signing kucherov for 6 years vs 3 years! And still does not make sense? We got tons of good forwards in our system!

How? Kucherov didn't get 3 years because of the Killorn contract. Kucherov got 3 so that he's only an RFA at the end and not a UFA like he would be in 6. It allows us to keep Kucherov for as long as we want to. If we wanted to pay him more for more years we could've made moves to do that, Yzerman wants to keep the best players under control for as long as possible and bridge deals so that.

 

[Rschmitz]

How? Kucherov didn't get 3 years because of the Killorn contract. Kucherov got 3 so that he's only an RFA at the end and not a UFA like he would be in 6. It allows us to keep Kucherov for as long as we want to. If we wanted to pay him more for more years we could've made moves to do that, Yzerman wants to keep the best players under control for as long as possible and bridge deals so that.

Yzerman may favor bridge deals, but your reasoning is wrong to support this theory you came up with. No offense, but don't know what you are talking about.

If Kucherov signs for 6 years, he's guaranteed 6 years. Instead, by signing a bridge deal, he'll have arbitration rights at the end of his contract. Now instead of being able to negotiate a team friendly, long term contract, he can refuse to sign, go to arbitration, and after a season leave if he doesn't like his offer.

Yzerman had all of the leverage on the last deal, which is why his cap hit was so low. The reason long term contracts have been trending ahead of bridge deals is because the average cost can be driven down since the team is giving the player years and security in exchange for buying free agent years. This is why it's fair to think that the Killorn contract is to blame for the bridge deal. Especially if you consider how long it took to sign Kucherov, one has to assume they discussed a long term deal first.

 

[Todd1a]

Yzerman may favor bridge deals, but your reasoning is wrong to support this theory you came up with. No offense, but don't know what you are talking about.

If Kucherov signs for 6 years, he's guaranteed 6 years. Instead, by signing a bridge deal, he'll have arbitration rights at the end of his contract. Now instead of being able to negotiate a team friendly, long term contract, he can refuse to sign, go to arbitration, and after a season leave if he doesn't like his offer.

Yzerman had all of the leverage on the last deal, which is why his cap hit was so low. The reason long term contracts have been trending ahead of bridge deals is because the average cost can be driven down since the team is giving the player years and security in exchange for buying free agent years. This is why it's fair to think that the Killorn contract is to blame for the bridge deal. Especially if you consider how long it took to sign Kucherov, one has to assume they discussed a long term deal first.

yes 100 percent agree! right now kucherov is by far our best forward and in two years it's going to be a showdown! 6 per year for 5 more years for kucherov would be great right now instead of two years left!

 

[HoseEmDown]

Yzerman may favor bridge deals, but your reasoning is wrong to support this theory you came up with. No offense, but don't know what you are talking about.

If Kucherov signs for 6 years, he's guaranteed 6 years. Instead, by signing a bridge deal, he'll have arbitration rights at the end of his contract. Now instead of being able to negotiate a team friendly, long term contract, he can refuse to sign, go to arbitration, and after a season leave if he doesn't like his offer.

Yzerman had all of the leverage on the last deal, which is why his cap hit was so low. The reason long term contracts have been trending ahead of bridge deals is because the average cost can be driven down since the team is giving the player years and security in exchange for buying free agent years. This is why it's fair to think that the Killorn contract is to blame for the bridge deal. Especially if you consider how long it took to sign Kucherov, one has to assume they discussed a long term deal first.

He could've signed a 1 year deal then had arbitration rights next year. He could've did the same the following year all while making more money each year until he got the big money deal he wanted.

Yzerman had the leverage because Kucherov was an RFA but he could've signed an offersheet if he wanted a long term deal. I don't think he took a bridge because of Killorn, every player coming off their ELC with Yzerman has signed for 5 years or less, he wasn't getting that 6 year deal.

Kucherov AAV might seem low but he's making 3.5+ million more a year than off his ELC. He also will be 26 and in his prime when his next deal is up and can get that massive contract then. Kucherov is betting on himself with the 3 year deal. He wasn't going to get more than Stamkos last year, a 1 year deal and maybe he gets closer to Stamkos, 2 years and he's more than Stamkos close to Ovechkin, 3 years and he might be highest paid in the league. If he continues this trend he could be the top earner, the top 10 now will still be locked in, McDavid will be paid but not sure he goes to the top right away, Kucherov has a chance in 3 years to be in position to be the highest paid player at least for 1 year.

 

[Todd1a]

He could've signed a 1 year deal then had arbitration rights next year. He could've did the same the following year all while making more money each year until he got the big money deal he wanted.

Yzerman had the leverage because Kucherov was an RFA but he could've signed an offersheet if he wanted a long term deal. I don't think he took a bridge because of Killorn, every player coming off their ELC with Yzerman has signed for 5 years or less, he wasn't getting that 6 year deal.

Kucherov AAV might seem low but he's making 3.5+ million more a year than off his ELC. He also will be 26 and in his prime when his next deal is up and can get that massive contract then. Kucherov is betting on himself with the 3 year deal. He wasn't going to get more than Stamkos last year, a 1 year deal and maybe he gets closer to Stamkos, 2 years and he's more than Stamkos close to Ovechkin, 3 years and he might be highest paid in the league. If he continues this trend he could be the top earner, the top 10 now will still be locked in, McDavid will be paid but not sure he goes to the top right away, Kucherov has a chance in 3 years to be in position to be the highest paid player at least for 1 year.

you also have to be very careful now! do you sign palat and Johnson long term deals ? because that will affect us being able to pay kucherov two years from now! I say you can do one deal for palat and johnson not both for 5 plus per season.

 

[gg720fla]

Keep Johnson and trade Palat if that is possible. Also, as to Always Sunny's lineup, Gourde and Dumont should be on the starting team next year before Paquette and Brown ever play again for us. Also if Killorn can be traded, better to lose another 5 mil a year since we are stuck with Callaghan's salary!

 

[CupsOverCash]

Keep Johnson and trade Palat if that is possible. Also, as to Always Sunny's lineup, Gourde and Dumont should be on the starting team next year before Paquette and Brown ever play again for us. Also if Killorn can be traded, better to lose another 5 mil a year since we are stuck with Callaghan's salary!

I would keep Killorn if we didn't have Callahans contract.

 

[Leonardo87]

I would keep Killorn if we didn't have Callahans contract.

I am Hopeful Callahan can bounce back next year after having a full preseason and camp under him. Does not need to put up 50 points but see him being an upgrade to most of the current bottom 6 if healthy.

 

[NatoGhost]

Callahan should just stay on LTIR aka Ohlund and give us the cap space while collecting his checks and keeping what remains of his health.

 

[Rschmitz]

He could've signed a 1 year deal then had arbitration rights next year. He could've did the same the following year all while making more money each year until he got the big money deal he wanted.

Yzerman had the leverage because Kucherov was an RFA but he could've signed an offersheet if he wanted a long term deal. I don't think he took a bridge because of Killorn, every player coming off their ELC with Yzerman has signed for 5 years or less, he wasn't getting that 6 year deal.

Kucherov AAV might seem low but he's making 3.5+ million more a year than off his ELC. He also will be 26 and in his prime when his next deal is up and can get that massive contract then. Kucherov is betting on himself with the 3 year deal. He wasn't going to get more than Stamkos last year, a 1 year deal and maybe he gets closer to Stamkos, 2 years and he's more than Stamkos close to Ovechkin, 3 years and he might be highest paid in the league. If he continues this trend he could be the top earner, the top 10 now will still be locked in, McDavid will be paid but not sure he goes to the top right away, Kucherov has a chance in 3 years to be in position to be the highest paid player at least for 1 year.

I agree with all of this, but it doesn't support what you said about it guaranteeing Kucherov stays longer.