Alain Vigneault

[Thesensation19*]

As a New York Ranger fan, I liked Torts as a coach. Thought we had a good chance to win with him. He made us into strong contenders. But hes gone, and I am quite happy with your ex-coach, AV.

I was just wondering... I heard all the major stuff and seen all the small stuff. I am aware hes bringing us sleep science, advanced stats, coordinators in the suites, more assistant coaches, he likes zone line changing, he likes to do his hw. The small stuff, seems like a likeable coach, seems to love NY. Open to media.

Can you guys tell us more about the guy though? The in between stuff. Like what kind of lines does he role with.

Does he like the top 6, bottom 6. Or how does he create lines
What does he look for in his best players. What kind of players does he play the most
I know hes very focused on the offense, and I am aware that the Nucks were very overall strong in the last few years but how is the defense? How is the system

Do the fans get to understand in depth about his line changing system. Do the advanced stats ever get told to the fans?

Just shed some more light on the specifics of his coaching

Click to read more...

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Fire AV!!!

 

[thenextone]

The sleep science and advanced stats are more from Mike Gillis (GM) but I'm sure even a guy like AV can learn a few things

 

[Grub]

As a New York Ranger fan, I liked Torts as a coach. Thought we had a good chance to win with him. He made us into strong contenders. But hes gone, and I am quite happy with your ex-coach, AV.

I was just wondering... I heard all the major stuff and seen all the small stuff. I am aware hes bringing us sleep science, advanced stats, coordinators in the suites, more assistant coaches, he likes zone line changing, he likes to do his hw. The small stuff, seems like a likeable coach, seems to love NY. Open to media.

Can you guys tell us more about the guy though? The in between stuff. Like what kind of lines does he role with.

Does he like the top 6, bottom 6. Or how does he create lines
What does he look for in his best players. What kind of players does he play the most
I know hes very focused on the offense, and I am aware that the Nucks were very overall strong in the last few years but how is the defense? How is the system

Do the fans get to understand in depth about his line changing system. Do the advanced stats ever get told to the fans?

Just shed some more light on the specifics of his coaching

He loves the bottom six, has been outcoached in many playoff rounds. Have lost the ALL playoff home games since 2011. That's about 10-11 games..

So you be the judge.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

if he treats nash anything like he treated the sedins, get ready for nash to:

- stop killing penalties even though he's good at it

- be taken completely out of the rhythm of some games with neurotic line-overmatching and zone start micromanaging even though he's an elite player and doesn't need to be protected

- not see the ice for five-odd minutes at a time when you take multiple consecutive penalties, or even when you have multiple consecutive defensive zone faceoffs

- regress defensively because he won't be participating in any of the defensive sets in practice


on the other hand, he will probably hit career highs in his offensive stats.


to answer another of your questions, AV likes five man units more than most, which drives him further into line matching and micro-managing zone starts. most likely, AV will put nash with your best offensive d pairing, probably del zotto's, and never start them in their own zone if he can help it.

 

[arsmaster*]

He loves the bottom six, has been outcoached in many playoff rounds. Have lost the ALL playoff home games since 2011. That's about 10-11 games..

So you be the judge.

That's 5 home games.


Quit making **** up.

 

[Wisp]

Sleep science was Gillis, and doesn't mean much with the Rangers light travel.

Also the group that provides these services signed an exclusive agreement with the Canucks.

 

[Kirk Mclean]

Fire AV

 

[NuxFan09]

First of all, all the advanced stuff like sleep science was brought on by our GM Mike Gillis, not Vigneault.

Vigneault is quite possibly the exact opposite of Torts, both in how he conducts himself with the media and his players. He has said straight up he likes to give ownership of the room to the players. I've heard - although can't confirm - that sometimes he doesn't say a damn thing to the players after a bad period or loss. He probably talks to the players less than any other coach in the league. When he takes a timeout, more often than not he'll just stand there while the players sit/stand and catch their breath. It's kind of awkward, actually, but I guess it worked with our team for awhile.

Vigneault seemed to like the classic two scoring lines, one checking line and one physical energy line system, although in the seasons when the Canucks were a deeper team - especially when they still had Hodgson - he spread out his scoring more. Think the 07 Cup winning Ducks team.

He's a very stubborn coach. He'll do what he thinks works and he'll keep doing it, as if he's thinking to himself "Someday, I tell you, someday this is going to work and everyone is gonna thank me for it!". If Vigneault likes a certain pair on the point on the powerplay, or if he likes Pyatt on your first line, expect that to stick until he and he alone is convinced it's not working.

Lastly, although Vigneault is a little impatient with youth, he does have a good track record of developing young talent and making them into players you never thought they'd be. This is one area where I've been very impressed with our former coach. If the Rangers' young players can avoid the doghouse and play how Vigneault wants them to play - sometimes way easier said than done, considering some players simply are creative offensive forwards and aren't necessarily two way beasts - he'll make a hell of a player out of all of them.

 

[How Ya Drouin]

Also expect AV to continually sit on one goal leads late in the game. And I don't mean the average sitting on narrow leads, but almost like it is a five minute late-game PK.

 

[Thesensation19*]

The sleep science and advanced stats are more from Mike Gillis (GM) but I'm sure even a guy like AV can learn a few things

I heard Mike Gillis was the guy who brought in the sleep science, but its like you said... AV learned about it and I heard he will now use it.

I mean, all Gillis did was invest into a company right? So I am sure if AV and Sather seem as interested as they are into it then they will do the same.

The advanced stats though I heard was a bit of both. I heard from the beginning that AV was always a student as a coach. Always interested in film sessions and studying the opponent. Maybe the stats wasnt his idea, but he sure benefited from it.


But, any news on this besides some small articles and a video I found on sleep science. I mean, was there any memorable qoutes or other big articles that only Vancouver fans might have seen and witnessed that none of us have cared about so I can see how players truly liked it

 

[Thesensation19*]

He loves the bottom six, has been outcoached in many playoff rounds. Have lost the ALL playoff home games since 2011. That's about 10-11 games..

So you be the judge.

He loves it you say? Okay, I like that in a coach to share lines.

I am shocked to hear he was out coached because of how much I hear he studies before the game and how well hes liked by the players but I am also not as shocked.

I heard the zone matching became predictable and I could see that especially so in a playoff series where u learn of your opponent much more indepth.


Hes lost ALL PLAYOFF HOME GAMES! Wow. idk what to say about that. 8 years and hes never won a single home playoff game. Wow.

 

[Bro Horvat]

He loves it you say? Okay, I like that in a coach to share lines.

I am shocked to hear he was out coached because of how much I hear he studies before the game and how well hes liked by the players but I am also not as shocked.

I heard the zone matching became predictable and I could see that especially so in a playoff series where u learn of your opponent much more indepth.


Hes lost ALL PLAYOFF HOME GAMES! Wow. idk what to say about that. 8 years and hes never won a single home playoff game. Wow.

No, not all, just since end of the 2011 run. So 5 games.

These posters are only bringing up his negatives, because they started to become glaringly obvious right before he was fired. But he does get outcoached often because he is seemingly unwilling to change his systems based upon situations.

His positives:
+ most wins of any Canucks coach in history
+ approachable, good with the media
+ not afraid to try different combinations of players/chemistry
+ solid, smart coach for the most part
+ lots of reg. season success

Now, that being said he does have lots of negatives as well. So we'll see how he does in NY.

Negatives that haven't been mentioned:
+ bad at properly implementing young players (kreider probably won't develop as fast under AV)
+ sits on precarious leads
+ can often be frustrating as hell to watch

 

[thenextone]

I heard Mike Gillis was the guy who brought in the sleep science, but its like you said... AV learned about it and I heard he will now use it.

I mean, all Gillis did was invest into a company right? So I am sure if AV and Sather seem as interested as they are into it then they will do the same.

The advanced stats though I heard was a bit of both. I heard from the beginning that AV was always a student as a coach. Always interested in film sessions and studying the opponent. Maybe the stats wasnt his idea, but he sure benefited from it.


But, any news on this besides some small articles and a video I found on sleep science. I mean, was there any memorable qoutes or other big articles that only Vancouver fans might have seen and witnessed that none of us have cared about so I can see how players truly liked it

The sleep science thing is mostly for our travel schedule. NYR has almost minimal travel so it's not a big deal.

The advanced stats is purely Gillis. It was his philosophy when he came in (and AV predated Gillis). In fact, AV often ignored the advice of the statisticians (overplaying Bieksa, underplaying Sedins etc...) so I think he's still very much a "gut feeling" coach.

As for him being studious, I think he studies game tape as much as every other coach. But he has a very rigid gameplan and in a playoff series where adjustments need to be made, he often fails to do so. The Canucks have played in 12 playoff series under AV and have been outcoached in all but maybe 2 - those were the 4 game sweep of STL and the 5 game win over San Jose. The shorter the series, the more likely AVs gameplan works.

 

[skywarp75]

personally I think all of MG's so called mistakes are to be blamed on keeping AV for so long. AV's method of holding down some players while force feeding others, and never adapting to changes in playoff games was annoying and played out 4 years ago, but we had to stick with it. IMO the nucks success is due to a quality core of players, and their lack of real success is due to a coach that didn't push and utilize his toolbox properly.

That being said, NYR has some great young players, and a top goalie, AV knows how to make that team into a regular season juggernaut.

 

[Thesensation19*]

First of all, all the advanced stuff like sleep science was brought on by our GM Mike Gillis, not Vigneault.

Vigneault is quite possibly the exact opposite of Torts, both in how he conducts himself with the media and his players. He has said straight up he likes to give ownership of the room to the players. I've heard - although can't confirm - that sometimes he doesn't say a damn thing to the players after a bad period or loss. He probably talks to the players less than any other coach in the league. When he takes a timeout, more often than not he'll just stand there while the players sit/stand and catch their breath. It's kind of awkward, actually, but I guess it worked with our team for awhile.

Vigneault seemed to like the classic two scoring lines, one checking line and one physical energy line system, although in the seasons when the Canucks were a deeper team - especially when they still had Hodgson - he spread out his scoring more. Think the 07 Cup winning Ducks team.

He's a very stubborn coach. He'll do what he thinks works and he'll keep doing it, as if he's thinking to himself "Someday, I tell you, someday this is going to work and everyone is gonna thank me for it!". If Vigneault likes a certain pair on the point on the powerplay, or if he likes Pyatt on your first line, expect that to stick until he and he alone is convinced it's not working.

Lastly, although Vigneault is a little impatient with youth, he does have a good track record of developing young talent and making them into players you never thought they'd be. This is one area where I've been very impressed with our former coach. If the Rangers' young players can avoid the doghouse and play how Vigneault wants them to play - sometimes way easier said than done, considering some players simply are creative offensive forwards and aren't necessarily two way beasts - he'll make a hell of a player out of all of them.

I heard Torts would sometimes do that too. He took pride in the leadership qualities of Cally and Lundqvist and expected them to say something most times. Though it seems AV is a bit quieter, a bit. Which is fine. We have a lot of big leaders in our locker room.

Torts was more about deserving players getting deserving minutes and with that said he would often play only 2 lines with a 3rd line break every so often and one shift for a 4th line in a period lol. If that. AV seems to be more classic approach from what I hear, like you said, but he spreads out time a bit more. With depth though, Torts loved playing 3 lines consistently and 4th line every so often. But I guess, any coach would.

Torts is the exact way with stubborn. Yet shockingly, at the same time if sometime works he will pick at something else wrong with the play. Boyle would score in the slot on a PP. Wow, so we need to screen their goalie. As you can tell by our PP stats, Torts rarely went with that play. Yet he continued to give Del Zotto and Richards more time until too late often.

I heard the opposite about his youth development. That he isnt that impatient. Very open minded and lenient. Which is fine, Torts gave many chances to our young guys but very picky in many aspects. People will give him a hard time for Kreider... but truthfully Kreider was inexperienced, shaky and defensive liability.

He did give time too Stepan, McDonagh, Moore, Miller, Moore, Del Zotto and people forget that. Hagelin too!
Good news, is for the most part I think our youth is comprised of some good skaters and some overall good players. I think Torts system though made them stiff and play in one role

Where it seems AV will let them be creative on the offense so long as they are reliable on the defense. I can see a few guys really benefiting from AV

 

[Al Swearengen]

One thing I think you'll find maddening is how Vigneault will move players off lines that are working to supplement lines that aren't working. He's so interested in match-up switches and chemistry experiments that he often won't stick with what's working or give things a chance to work if they payoffs aren't immediate and continuous.

 

[Seattle Totems]

As a New York Ranger fan, I liked Torts as a coach. Thought we had a good chance to win with him. He made us into strong contenders. But hes gone, and I am quite happy with your ex-coach, AV.

I was just wondering... I heard all the major stuff and seen all the small stuff. I am aware hes bringing us sleep science, advanced stats, coordinators in the suites, more assistant coaches, he likes zone line changing, he likes to do his hw. The small stuff, seems like a likeable coach, seems to love NY. Open to media.

Can you guys tell us more about the guy though? The in between stuff. Like what kind of lines does he role with.

Does he like the top 6, bottom 6. Or how does he create lines
What does he look for in his best players. What kind of players does he play the most
I know hes very focused on the offense, and I am aware that the Nucks were very overall strong in the last few years but how is the defense? How is the system

Do the fans get to understand in depth about his line changing system. Do the advanced stats ever get told to the fans?

Just shed some more light on the specifics of his coaching

The Canucks have a confidential and exclusive agreement with the sleep science company - so AV will not be bringing the Rangers wristwatches etc. That said it's basically something any first year psychology student could devise and other teams are using similar programs.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Where it seems AV will let them be creative on the offense so long as they are reliable on the defense. I can see a few guys really benefiting from AV

that sort of depends. i always felt like AV was a very smart coach who was a little too in love with how smart he was.

the sedins became predictable not because the sedins are predictable or uncreative players, but because they were forced to always drop the puck at the blueline. by last season, even edmonton's coach knew this.

so many set plays, and some really good ones too. but i think as time went on, AV lost sight of the fact that a clutch of clever tricks that catch an opponent off guard once in a while when you have the opening (bank pass off the end boards, e.g.) isn't actually an offensive game plan. but the only room for creativity AV's game plan did allow was for those clever tricks. the difference between derek roy when he first got here and derek roy after a couple of weeks was night and day. he went from an unpredictable offensive threat to higgins at center.

 

[Thesensation19*]

No, not all, just since end of the 2011 run. So 5 games.

These posters are only bringing up his negatives, because they started to become glaringly obvious right before he was fired. But he does get outcoached often because he is seemingly unwilling to change his systems based upon situations.

His positives:
+ most wins of any Canucks coach in history
+ approachable, good with the media
+ not afraid to try different combinations of players/chemistry
+ solid, smart coach for the most part
+ lots of reg. season success

Now, that being said he does have lots of negatives as well. So we'll see how he does in NY.

Negatives that haven't been mentioned:
+ bad at properly implementing young players (kreider probably won't develop as fast under AV)
+ sits on precarious leads
+ can often be frustrating as hell to watch

I dont find being able to talk to the media a good thing. Nor a bad thing. Its an irrelevant thing in terms of coaching and is basically for the fans.

So i like that about HIM, but for the most part his positives and negatives are so vague. (not just you)

I mean, give me an example of some young guys he would have sit on the bench for the entire game rather than send him down to the AHL. Give me an example of young guys he would sit for an entire game after 1 or 2 bad defensive plays. NOT BAD, like u got scored on and its your fault. Like, you were in a bad position... and though you almost scored a goal for us, you almost let one in too. You can sit for 20 minutes now.


What do you mean he sits on leads? Up a goal and he chooses to sit back and play a trap? or something


and what do u mean hes a fursterating coach?

 

[Thesensation19*]

The sleep science thing is mostly for our travel schedule. NYR has almost minimal travel so it's not a big deal.

The advanced stats is purely Gillis. It was his philosophy when he came in (and AV predated Gillis). In fact, AV often ignored the advice of the statisticians (overplaying Bieksa, underplaying Sedins etc...) so I think he's still very much a "gut feeling" coach.

As for him being studious, I think he studies game tape as much as every other coach. But he has a very rigid gameplan and in a playoff series where adjustments need to be made, he often fails to do so. The Canucks have played in 12 playoff series under AV and have been outcoached in all but maybe 2 - those were the 4 game sweep of STL and the 5 game win over San Jose. The shorter the series, the more likely AVs gameplan works.

I know the sleep science was by Gillis, and I am aware that Vancouver started it because of their terrible traveling. BUTTT, since Gillis brought it in, several other teams adapted it and the advanced stats.

Travel is bad for any of these guys. Whether its always changing time zones, always in the air, a back to back game night or a playoff series in a week and a half. Or AHL players being back and forth bewteen the big leagues, which we should have a lot.

Any bit of recovery especially in terms of sleep. Is great and I am glad AV could come in and reccomend it to us and bring us his experience with it as well as other things. Even if it slightly helps the players and the team.



I am glad to hear AV isnt all about stats. I dont want any coach to come in and pretend like stats is made up of laws and physics. Its percentages, though I did like to hear that the Sedin twins did a great job with it by always being put in the right position.

Though, I heard it gets predictable.

 

[Thesensation19*]

Im not really shocked by any of this...

I hope that AV system will limit the amount of shots on net. Torts system for some reason allowed far too many shots to be taken on Lundqvist in a given night and the whole season.

Sometimes, I didnt like his decision to put in Biron in games against the Caps or Lightning. Teams that love to shoot, and play offense and you have our worse goalie in but rather save Henrik for a game in Carolina.


Other than that... quite similar. Torts had one game plan. Dump it in, cycle... dump it in, even if your changing. The issues was possession. We never seemed to have quantity or quality of it.

I see the Rangers and the Canucks being very similar teams in many ways. For some reason, I also see Torts adapting much quicker than AV in their new positions and I could even see Canucks winning it with Torts. I can also see that being an interesting topic for next year.

 

[MS]

I dont find being able to talk to the media a good thing. Nor a bad thing. Its an irrelevant thing in terms of coaching and is basically for the fans.

So i like that about HIM, but for the most part his positives and negatives are so vague. (not just you)

I mean, give me an example of some young guys he would have sit on the bench for the entire game rather than send him down to the AHL. Give me an example of young guys he would sit for an entire game after 1 or 2 bad defensive plays. NOT BAD, like u got scored on and its your fault. Like, you were in a bad position... and though you almost scored a goal for us, you almost let one in too. You can sit for 20 minutes now.


What do you mean he sits on leads? Up a goal and he chooses to sit back and play a trap? or something


and what do u mean hes a fursterating coach?

The perception here (as you can see in above posts) is that Vigneault sucked with young players. That perception is totally wrong.

Every young defender of any real quality he was given developed extremely well. From Bieksa and Edler through to Tanev. He rushed Frank Corrado into the playoffs this year over a veteran in Keith Ballard, and Corrado played well.

Likewise he developed Schneider perfectly in net.

Up front, he demanded that young players play a three-zone game. And most developed well. Cody Hodgson was being developed correctly - sheltered minutes because he really struggled defensively - but had a pout about it and demanded a trade. I don't blame Vigneault at all for that.

The vast majority of quality forwards he was given developed perfectly. Kesler, Raymond, Hansen all turned into excellent three-zone players.

Last season, he kept giving Schroeder and Kassian substantial minutes for most of the year despite the fact that both were liabilities for the most part.

You ask for examples of Vigneault treating a young player poorly, and they're difficult to find. Sergei Shirokov, maybe. But that's about it, and he wasn't very good anyway.

Oh, and he doesn't sit on leads more than any other coach. Until this year, when we did struggle when leading after 2 periods, we'd been one of the best in the league for several years running at winning from in front.

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

I swear AV made guys pass up open shots to instead shoot for a rebound or right into the goalies' mid-section for a offensive-zone faceoff. When the defense gets to every one of those rebounds or you aren't winning the draws, it gets really frustrating to watch.

He has failed with certain players that were brought in. Roy looked really good right away, but as he got used to the system, he became useless - like all the creativeness was sucked out of him. Garrison gets signed as the 3rd highest goal-scoring d-man in the league with a rocket slapper, and does AV use this on the PP? Not all that much, and not for like the 1st 20 games or something. Ballard was a top shot-blocker when he first came to Van. I remember his first game, dying seconds, and he looked like a 2nd goalie out there. Soon enough, the guy became a defensive liability and it was like he forgot how to block shots.

AV does lots of questionable things. Sometimes you think he's gone crazy, but sometimes it actually works out. Lappiere on the 1st line down the stretch for like 9 games? Yup - and it worked.

Maybe the biggest knock on AV is how mentally fragile his team was. When there was a momentum swing in the other teams' favour, we would fold like an accordion and the flood-gates would be wide-open. Don't be shocked if Lundqvist gets absolutely hung out to dry with no mercy-pull. AV rolls like that.

 

[Dirkph]

if he treats nash anything like he treated the sedins, get ready for nash to:

- stop killing penalties even though he's good at it

- be taken completely out of the rhythm of some games with neurotic line-overmatching and zone start micromanaging even though he's an elite player and doesn't need to be protected

- not see the ice for five-odd minutes at a time when you take multiple consecutive penalties, or even when you have multiple consecutive defensive zone faceoffs

- regress defensively because he won't be participating in any of the defensive sets in practice


on the other hand, he will probably hit career highs in his offensive stats.


to answer another of your questions, AV likes five man units more than most, which drives him further into line matching and micro-managing zone starts. most likely, AV will put nash with your best offensive d pairing, probably del zotto's, and never start them in their own zone if he can help it.

You say it like it's almost a bad thing.

Personally, I loved how AV did this. The micromanagement aspect to him made him very successful. I mean, put it this way... in a game, you only have x amount of chances to score goals. Why wouldn't you want your best offensive players to take as many chances as possible in that x amount of time?