Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI
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Chimpradamus
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He doesn't coach offense, there's his secret. The part he never touches, works like a charm. The part he puts focus on, works like a fire in an ammunition factory. I bet NYR could let the janitor coach (from the janitor room) and they would have more success coaching themselves than if Vigneault gets involved.
Mac n Gs
Gorton plz
- Jan 17, 2014
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C’mon now, this isn’t true. We’re so tactically different over the past five years than we were under Torts and Renney, and it’s the one area I’ll always give AV credit.
He coaches really good lateral passing, and our guys know how to attack across seams and off the rush and get goalies moving. We’ve been consistently on the of the best scoring teams under AV, even with the roster turnover. Giving on D to lead to offense is what worked so well 4-5 years ago when we didn’t have to worry about Hank/Cam/Raanta. The biggest issue has been not adjusting this defensive style when it’s been figured out and countered countless times. No good team defense in this league plays man-to-man. I mean the Isles switched to it under Weight and they’re the worst defensive team in hockey. The hilarious part is that they’re actually trying to he good.
Chimpradamus
Registered User
Now when you say it, I retract my statement. It was Tortorella that stated he doesn't coach offense. Sorry about that.
Mac n Gs
Gorton plz
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It’s kinda funny how we need to swing back a little on that spectrum now with a more defensive coach. Maybe AV offensive hockey habits + a new defensive system will catch lightning in a bottle?
Sorry, but I do not see the brilliance. The whole offensive game plan seems to be hit a home run stretch pass and pray that you have an odd man situation off the rush. That's it.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
And Hank has been bought-in with AV nearly the entire time. Not only would his performance would have suffered, if he wasn’t bought-in, but AV would’ve been fired a long time ago because Lundqvist doesn’t keep quiet.
Only like half of a coach’s job is system and tactics.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Seriously? That’s not all the offensive system is based on. Yes, it’s designed to score on the rush, but usually they do it by highly coordinated breakouts.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
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Ironically, the last three seasons are also the seasons where the Rangers have surrendered the most shots on goal in the entire league. There's a trend there.
The 13-14 and 14-15 teams knew how to score, but also how to defend, they also had guys that played a very good hybrid of man-man and zone in their own end. The more AV got his hands on the roster--the more he got "his guys", the more the team became this stale counter-attack team that fed off insane goaltending...
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Maybe he's not a brilliant offensive mind. Maybe our talent is a lot better than we give it credit for.
Sure, he has some impressive rush schemes, but this team is completely incapable of executing zone entries without numbers, they don't cycle, they don't get shots to the net, and we've seen how easy it is to completely shut this team down in a series because the system does one thing.
Our offense isn't as much of a mess as our defense, but it has a ton of flaws, despite our ability to compete on the scoreboard.
Seriously. It looks like there is nothing beside the rush. If the other teams are not granting the center of the ice to them, there does not seem to be any ability or thought as to what else can be done.
The reasons for the Rangers downfall in the last couple of years is a combination of deteriorating depth/talent, and AV's stubborness in not adjusting the defensive game plan. Im open for an intense debate about what % of blame can be tied to those 2 factors.
What I won't stand for are two schools of thought that are prominent around here and, quite simply wrong.
1. AV is some coaching dolt who totally lucked into the success he had in his first 2 seasons.
2. The talent level the last couple of years is still just as high, but AV is stifling it.
Both of these things are BS, to put it simply.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Nobody “grants the center of the ice to them.” They take the center of the ice because that’s what the system is designed for them to do.
Sorry. I'm confused, is this supposed to prove he's good developing young talent?J.T. Miller is one player drafted by the Rangers @shinchanyo . And he was up & down in the minors for a while under his development, but there are many who pointed fingers to AV who meant he was too strict at the time, but he is a good player now even though they moved him to Tampa Bay.
You mentioned that Lias & chytil they were too small sample size just after 1 NHL game, and often player development happens in the minors before they are NHL ready, and AV need to decide when a player is NHL ready or not concerning the topic the recent years since he was and still is the main coach. I believe that AV main strength is coaching a national team like Canada with many veteran players, so I`m not saying he is a great coach who need to work with newly drafted players since it`s highly unknown and a new situation for us. But I`m just saying too many the recent years usually point fingers at AV for his decisions, and maybe sometimes not always well deserved critics and that include me as well.
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East Coast Bias
Registered User
I think people conflate this point with his roster selections and personel management.
They’re not the same thing, but one compounds the other.
I agree your point #2. We have gradually decreased in talent. And he’s compounded it with bad decisions and playing time allocation.
Agreed. But one caveat absolutely has to come with the other. There were people that thought this was still a Stanley Cup contending team right up until the fire sale.
The 2014 finals team had a 3rd line of Zuccarello-Brassard-Pouliot.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
As if that’s a one-way street. Opponents just say “oh hey, all we need to do is clog the neutral zone.” Meanwhile, the entire point of attempting so many stretch passes is to get them to loosen up...
Teams usually fail to clog the neutral zone effectively against the Rangers for more than a period. Not saying that failure is a big majority of the time anymore. At the peak of this team under AV, though, teams were rarely successful at clogging the neutral zone against us. Hell, teams haven’t even been all that successful at it even this season when the Rangers have been healthy.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
Shut up Alain.
If you don't like it, go coach somewhere else next year.
If you don't like it, go coach somewhere else next year.
YoSoyLalo
me reading HF
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
Less than a week until the end of the season. Media breakup day will probably be early next week (Monday or Tuesday?), since the final game is on Saturday.
This could be the final week of Vigneault's Rangers tenure.
This could be the final week of Vigneault's Rangers tenure.
Amazing Kreiderman
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