Alain Vigneault Named Head Coach Part 2

[Curufinwe]

Niskanen, Braun and Hayes aren't depth players. They cost between $3.8m and $7.14m against the cap and had major roles on the team. The only time Hextall had cap space to acquire players of that price tag he got JVR.

Pitlick and Stewart were Fletcher's summer depth acquisitions. Pitlick was a nice pick up, but so was Bellemare who barely made more than the minimum salary while he was here, and showed how good he really was once freed from Hak's suffocating yoke. Stewart was literally the worst player in the league.

It's also a bit strange to blame Hextall for Hagg when that was a Homer draft pick and he's still around and being used under the new regime. Even stranger to bring up Lehtera without mentioning that he came with the picks Hextall used to take Frost and Farabee. Jori wasn't a free agent signing designed to improve the team.

MDZ and Gudas were at least as good as Braun when it comes to dman acquisitions. And they were cheaper.

 

[Rebels57]

Niskanen, Braun and Hayes aren't depth players. They cost between $3.8m and $7.14m against the cap and had major roles on the team. The only time Hextall had cap space to acquire players of that price tag he got JVR.

Pitlick and Stewart were Fletcher's summer depth acquisitions. Pitlick was a nice pick up, but so was Bellemare who barely made more than the minimum salary while he was here, and showed how good he really was once freed from Hak's suffocating yoke. Stewart was literally the worst player in the league.

It's also a bit strange to blame Hextall for Hagg when that was a Homer draft pick and he's still around and being used under the new regime. Even stranger to bring up Lehtera without mentioning that he came with the picks Hextall used to take Frost and Farabee. Jori wasn't a free agent signing designed to improve the team.

MDZ and Gudas were at least as good as Braun when it comes to dman acquisitions. And they were cheaper.

I do think Hexy deserves SOME blame for the Hagg debacle. He was the one that wrongly gifted him a spot over Morin and Sanheim after the 2017 camp. He allowed him to play on his roster for 1 1/2 seasons up until when he was fired, when he could have sent him to the AHL where he belongs.

 

[dragonoffrost]

It's time for AV to show why he's the coach. Coaching will be big in these games. No crowd takes that factor out so it will be matchup and skill that win out.

 

[Curufinwe]

Hagg still isn't in the AHL or traded despite Hextall leaving 18 months ago.

 

[Rebels57]

Hagg still isn't in the AHL or traded despite Hextall leaving 18 months ago.

Yeah but he has at least been relegated to 6/7 defensemen. With a healthy Morin, he may have been 7/8. AV came in with no pre-conceived notions.

 

[Curufinwe]

That happened under Gordon as soon as Hak left. It's Hextall's fault in that he didn't fire Hak.

NHL.com Stats

 

[Striiker]

I do think Hexy deserves SOME blame for the Hagg debacle. He was the one that wrongly gifted him a spot over Morin and Sanheim after the 2017 camp. He allowed him to play on his roster for 1 1/2 seasons up until when he was fired, when he could have sent him to the AHL where he belongs.

Of course he deserves blame. He shouldn't have left him on the team after he showed he didn't belong.

Bringing him up initially was fine, keeping him up while he sucked was not, and then re-signing him after he proved to be a bad player was terrible. I said it at the time, signing Hagg was Hextall's worse contract mistake as a GM and I meant it.

Other than blind loyalty to Hakstol and allowing him to get what he wanted, I don't get why Hextall was able to see that Grossmann was trash that needed to go but then not realize that Hagg is the same player.

If Hextall had done the right thing then Fletcher wouldn't have had the opportunity to be an idiot and continue the mistake.

 

[Rebels57]

Of course he deserves blame. He shouldn't have left him on the team after he showed he didn't belong.

Bringing him up initially was fine, keeping him up while he sucked was not, and then re-signing him after he proved to be a bad player was terrible. I said it at the time, signing Hagg was Hextall's worse contract mistake as a GM and I mean.

Other than blind loyalty to Hakstol and allowing him to get what he wanted, I don't get why Hextall was able to see that Grossmann was trash that needed to go but then not realize that Hagg is the same player.

If Hextall had done the right thing then Fletcher wouldn't have had the opportunity to be an idiot and continue the mistake.

 

[Hexxxy]

Cans
Build prospect pool
Handle cap situation
Trade
RFA Signings

Can NOTs
Assemble anything close to a competent coaching staff
Modify previously established timeline

Also can not establish healthy culture

 

[deadhead]

Other than blind loyalty to Hakstol and allowing him to get what he wanted, I don't get why Hextall was able to see that Grossmann was trash that needed to go but then not realize that Hagg is the same player.

Maybe because he managed to get Gagner and a 3rd rd pick for Grossman (and dump Pronger's salary), and replace him with a guy making the league minimum?

 

[Curufinwe]

 

[TCTC]

So, it's either him, Cassidy or Tortorella.

I guess it's impressive what Tortorella got out of that Blue Jackets roster, but they're still mediocre at best.
Bruins are a powerhouse, but they were before Cassidy too.

AV should win.

 

[deadhead]

Niskanen, Braun and Hayes aren't depth players. They cost between $3.8m and $7.14m against the cap and had major roles on the team. The only time Hextall had cap space to acquire players of that price tag he got JVR.

Pitlick and Stewart were Fletcher's summer depth acquisitions. Pitlick was a nice pick up, but so was Bellemare who barely made more than the minimum salary while he was here, and showed how good he really was once freed from Hak's suffocating yoke. Stewart was literally the worst player in the league.

It's also a bit strange to blame Hextall for Hagg when that was a Homer draft pick and he's still around and being used under the new regime. Even stranger to bring up Lehtera without mentioning that he came with the picks Hextall used to take Frost and Farabee. Jori wasn't a free agent signing designed to improve the team.

MDZ and Gudas were at least as good as Braun when it comes to dman acquisitions. And they were cheaper.

Braun > Gudas.

Braun v MDZ? Which season, MDZ was one of the most inconsistent players of the decade, a couple season a top 4 guy, most of the top a third pair talent, sometimes even worse.

 

[Here4ThaLids]

That man looks like he knows how to have a good time!

 

[BritainStix]

AV is awesome.

 

[Jettany]

Niskanen, Braun and Hayes aren't depth players. They cost between $3.8m and $7.14m against the cap and had major roles on the team. The only time Hextall had cap space to acquire players of that price tag he got JVR.

Pitlick and Stewart were Fletcher's summer depth acquisitions. Pitlick was a nice pick up, but so was Bellemare who barely made more than the minimum salary while he was here, and showed how good he really was once freed from Hak's suffocating yoke. Stewart was literally the worst player in the league.

It's also a bit strange to blame Hextall for Hagg when that was a Homer draft pick and he's still around and being used under the new regime. Even stranger to bring up Lehtera without mentioning that he came with the picks Hextall used to take Frost and Farabee. Jori wasn't a free agent signing designed to improve the team.

MDZ and Gudas were at least as good as Braun when it comes to dman acquisitions. And they were cheaper.[/QUOTE

Hexy should of buried lehtera in Lehigh. That’s a fact. That was his fault. He could have made that trade and bought him out or buried him. He saw value in Jori as did hakstol obviously.

 

[Jettany]

What the heck happened here? Can anyone help me out. Lol.

 

[Willis88]

AV is my favorite coach since Laviolette. I think I might like his coaching style and personality even more.

 

[skagittarius]

I do think Hexy deserves SOME blame for the Hagg debacle.

Not sure I'd call it a debacle. I haven't seen anything from Morin at the NHL level that makes me think he's any better than Hagg, and in the case of Sanheim being a draft year younger, I'm guessing they wanted him to mature more and I don't think Hextall felt the team was a contender anyway. In retrospect, I don't have an issue with it. They've really addressed some of the organizational blind spots (on and off-ice), so things are looking bright.

 

[Striiker]

Not sure I'd call it a debacle. I haven't seen anything from Morin at the NHL level that makes me think he's any better than Hagg, and in the case of Sanheim being a draft year younger, I'm guessing they wanted him to mature more and I don't think Hextall felt the team was a contender anyway. In retrospect, I don't have an issue with it. They've really addressed some of the organizational blind spots (on and off-ice), so things are looking bright.

The problem is that Sanheim and Morin both clearly outplayed Hagg in the AHL and preseason and yet Hagg is the one who ends up with the full time NHL spot. Hakstol and Hextall screwed up.

The reason you haven’t seen anything to suggest Morin is better is because he’s never been given a chance in the NHL. Meanwhile Hagg has somehow managed to stay on the roster while literally being one of the worst defensemen in the league for years.

 

[skagittarius]

The reason you haven’t seen anything to suggest Morin is better is because he’s never been given a chance in the NHL

That doesn't equate to being a better player, but I get what you're saying based on what you've seen at the AHL. I'm 2,800 miles from Philly and haven't watched much AHL. I prefer to attend games and have seen a lot of WHL games out here and thought it was good to let Sanheim marinate and I think his game is better now for that.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg was the only one of the three with experience at RHD, so it came down to Morin v Sanheim for the other roster spot.

Morin can't stay healthy, that is a deficiency, once is bad luck, when it repeats, well . . .
And Morin didn't show enough to keep at an overcrowded LHD spot

 

[Striiker]

That doesn't equate to being a better player, but I get what you're saying based on what you've seen at the AHL. I'm 2,800 miles from Philly and haven't watched much AHL. I prefer to attend games and have seen a lot of WHL games out here and thought it was good to let Sanheim marinate and I think his game is better now for that.

It's what we had to judge by. If we have to pick based on something, that's best we've got. All three players, playing on the same team, versus the same competition. Sanheim > Morin > Hagg, in pretty clear fashion. I watched a lot of Phantoms games that year.... a couple others on here did too (and probably watched more than I did) and they came to the same conclusion too. I trust my judgement and theirs as well.

Then, after that, in preseason the same thing happened: Hagg was the worst of the bunch. I don't believe that preseason should be used to pick who makes the team, but if he had a great preseason I could at least understand where Hak and Hex went wrong. But nah, not even there.

And look, I'm not saying Morin was perfect or even close to it. He had plenty of flaws and he might have ended up being nothing special at all, but he was better than Hagg, at the very least, and should have made the team long before him. Sanheim dwarfs both in every conceivable category.

 

[TCTC]

AV is my favorite coach since Laviolette. I think I might like his coaching style and personality even more.

He is the right coach for this team right now. There's no doubt about that. Just like Lavi was the right coach in 2009.
I think I need one more year of Vigneault to decide if I like him more than Laviolette. But so far I can't complain.

 

[deadhead]

He is the right coach for this team right now. There's no doubt about that. Just like Lavi was the right coach in 2009.
I think I need one more year of Vigneault to decide if I like him more than Laviolette. But so far I can't complain.

Takes a few years to judge a HC.

However, AV is in a much better situation than the Rangers, where he inherited a team with a core of young players but nothing in the pipeline, so once those players aged and got paid, there was no cheap talent behind them.

Flyers have a core of young players, Provorov, Sanheim, Myers, TK, Lindblom, NAK, Hart but also a big group behind them that will help with attrition and cap management, Frost, Farabee, Brink, Ratcliffe, Laczynski, Allison, JOB, York, Zamula, Ustimenko, etc.