Al Strachan's latest whinefest

[Pepper]

Man, some people just don't give up, here's the latest from Al "never got it right" Strachan

Al being very confused

The NHL is trying to create a new economic system. It has decided that the age-old concept of supply and demand is not viable for its endeavours. (The system has worked since cave men traded mastodon meat for stone axes, but it's not good enough for the NHL.)

Sounds that evolution has left Al to stone age...That would explain a lot...

The players provided the league with a perfectly workable system back on Dec. 9 and even offered to roll back salaries to the level that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman had demanded. But Bettman turned down that offer for the simple reason that he couldn't trust the owners to use common sense.

Perfectly workable system? Heh, good one Al. Is Saturday Night Live hiring new writers?

The last CBA was roughly 100 pages and it covered every aspect of the game -- free agency, waivers, standard player contracts, arbitration, grievance procedures and on and on.

So far, the two sides have 50 pages of the agreement in place on the salary cap alone.

When this document is finished, it will be far beyond the comprehension of most general managers

Ummm Al, just because you can't understand it doesn't mean that educated GMs wouldn't be able to comprehend it.

Click to read more...

 

[Ola]

I found the other article at slam by Mike Ulmer more interesting.

1. The NHL will have fewer Russians and more American Leaguers. With entry-level salaries curtailed and limited resources devoted to franchise players instead of support players, second- and third-line European players probably will opt to stay at home. The Russian Elite league is far and away the most lucrative gig available. And who will take their place? Expect a new premium on serviceable players who didn't lose a year in the lockout. "We placed about 120 players in the NHL two years ago," American Hockey League Commissioner Dave Andrews said, "and we'd expect to put another 100 players, or four players a team, on top of that number next year."

Jesus who pays these dudes? This is something that have been discussed around here forever and everyone knows how the cap on entery level contracts will have some affect on the league...

 

[Ola]

Oh wait not everybody thought that the entery cap would have any affect... I remember now it was you peppar!

I said Europe is not a threat and gave 2-3 examples.

Please provide those 'anyones' who have said that low rookie cap could become a problem, time starts now.

Sorry dude but its time to eat some crow. And don't make it personal as usual it were you who started all this, but I couldn't resist since its so easy when you have zero insight/understanding in/of the game.

 

[mytor4*]

I found the other article at slam by Mike Ulmer more interesting.

1. The NHL will have fewer Russians and more American Leaguers. With entry-level salaries curtailed and limited resources devoted to franchise players instead of support players, second- and third-line European players probably will opt to stay at home. The Russian Elite league is far and away the most lucrative gig available. And who will take their place? Expect a new premium on serviceable players who didn't lose a year in the lockout. "We placed about 120 players in the NHL two years ago," American Hockey League Commissioner Dave Andrews said, "and we'd expect to put another 100 players, or four players a team, on top of that number next year."


Jesus who pays these dudes? This is something that have been discussed around here forever and everyone knows how the cap on entery level contracts will have some affect on the league...

remember right now this is just another opinion not a fact so don't jump to high yet

 

[Pepper]

Oh wait everybody didn't agree on that the entery cap would have any affect. I remember now it was you peppar!



Sorry dude but its time to eat some crow. And don't make it personal as usual it were you who started all this, but I couldn't resist since its so easy when you have zero insight/understanding in/of the game.

They have computers in kindergardens these days??

Answer me this Ola:

NHL has proposed a entry cap of 1.1M (850K + bonuses). How many European 2rd & 3rd liners will get more than that in Russia?

Time starts now (not that I expect any reasonable answer from you)

 

[Ola]

remember right now this is just another opinion not a fact so don't jump to high yet

Russia was a factor before the lockout, Tverdovsky and a few others got paid more their then they would in the NHL. Some players from eastern europe opt to stay their, or leave the NHL after a few years if things didn't turn out like expected for them. Without a doubt it will have some affect on the league. Some people even thinks it could be positive, I don't know maybe they have a point. Personally I belive it will hurt the league some, not much but maybe 15-20 skilled players will play in europe and be missed in NA, atleast by me.

The bottomline is that it will have some effect on the league. I hate to be called a idiot for pointing that out, especially by someone like peppar who don't know a squat about the game...

 

[Pepper]

Russia was a factor before the lockout, Tverdovsky and a few others got paid more their then they would in the NHL. Some players from eastern europe opt to stay their, or leave the NHL after a few years if things didn't turn out like expected for them. Without a doubt it will have some affect on the league. Some people even thinks it could be positive, I don't know maybe they have a point. Personally I belive it will hurt the league some, not much but maybe 15-20 skilled players will play in europe and be missed in NA, atleast by me.

The bottomline is that it will have some effect on the league. I hate to be called a idiot for pointing that out, especially by someone like peppar who don't know a squat about the game...

You were talking about ENTRY CAP and how it makes Europeans stay in home instead of coming to NHL.

Look, I know you're pissed off after being continously humiliated here but atleast try to keep your story straight. Oh and try to answer the question I presented to you (or is this an admission that you can't answer it? Wouldn't surprise me).

EDIT: oh and I hate to remind you but this is Mike Ulmer we're talking about. Check out his article from july 2004 Have no fear, NHL will play

 

[kyle747]

Euro Players in NHL

I bleieve most of the Euro players will still opt for the NHL. Revenues in the Russina leagues do not support the salaries being paid - its just a few rich owners over there, and we know how that ends, don't we !

 

[Tekneek]

What 2nd/3rd line players are going to command an entry level contract that bumps up against the cap? Not many. Only the first round players are going to get that money and it goes down from there.

 

[Tekneek]

I bleieve most of the Euro players will still opt for the NHL. Revenues in the Russina leagues do not support the salaries being paid - its just a few rich owners over there, and we know how that ends, don't we !

What if they do start posting a profit? It is possible. Even if they don't, they will lure their share of players away until the funds dry up.

 

[Ola]

They have computers in kindergardens these days??

Answer me this Ola:

NHL has proposed a entry cap of 1.1M (850K + bonuses). How many European 2rd & 3rd liners will get more than that in Russia?

Time starts now (not that I expect any reasonable answer from you)

"time starts now"

ROFLMAO

Why don't you just admit that you don't have a clue what you are talking about? I would bet anything on that you didn't even know that their was a league called the RSL when you made your first post about how everone who thought that Europe could have a effect on the NHL were dreamers.

Here is however how I look at the future:
Scenario 1. A really good young player stays at home a few more years. Don't know if the rumors surronding Datsyuk/Kovalchuk/Ovechkin are true but no smoke without fire. If these guys stay at home its because they are getting allot of money. AK Bar Kazan had a payroll of 30m USD last year. We might see some future franchise players bolt in and out of the NHL their first years if things doesn't suit them.

Scenario 2. If a team like AK Bar/Dynamo Moscow wants a icon to build the team around they could easily get a oligark to pay someone like Kovalchuk/Ovechkin a ton of money. The RSL are improving by the year. The CBA would be for what 10 years? There will be new Oveckins and Kovalchuks comming out of russia. One of thoose might not make it to the NHL.

Scenario 3. Even with a new CBA their will be teams who sucks, their will be a Pittsburg Penguins even in 06', 07' and 08'. Take a young hockey player from russia in the NHL playing for a team that really sucked for a few years. He is in his 3rd year of his contract. A team in russia offers him a the same amount he makes in NA tax free and the NHL might loose that player forever. Remember a 2nd/3rd liner in the NHL could be a mega star in europe.

Scenario 4. A player who is not a 1st round pick but who have improved allot after the age of 18. Kind of like Marek Zidlicky. A hockey career is only so long and a player like Zidlicky could easily have made more then 1.1m in russia next year. No NHL for him?

Scenario 5. I am not saying that this will be the case. But some people are talking about that in a hardcap enviorment the top players still will get their money, it will be the role players/2nd line/3rd line who are gooing to take a paycut. If this is the case, a decent Russian player, not as good as Kovalchuk and Ovechkin but defenitly serviceable, might not see the gold mine on the horizon after 4 years. He might not be able to fullfill the bonuses and 850K a year for four years could be matched by several russian teams.

I have a question for you, when the RSL was, to a small extent, a threat before the lockout, before a 4 year entery level cap, before the RSL got all the attention it did last year, why wouldn't it be to a even bigger extent next year??? Why wouldn't the threat keep growing past next season and through out the CBA so that it have the same affect as the expansion had on the league. Don't come arguing like you did last time, I am not saying that not a single european still are gooing to play in the NHL. It will however have a effect on the talent level in the league.

Finns and Swedes won't be affected but you seems to have a problem looking past the lakes of Saarijärvi. For some eastern europeans the RSL will be a option.

 

[Ola]

I bleieve most of the Euro players will still opt for the NHL. Revenues in the Russina leagues do not support the salaries being paid - its just a few rich owners over there, and we know how that ends, don't we !

I agree. But look at how the WHA affected the NHL. They paid a few big stars a ton of money. The RSL have no interest in fighting with thoot and nails for every russian player. They will look for high profile players who can be stars in the RSL. If Ak Bar Kazan could dig up 35m USD last year for one season how much could they pay for one franchise player? One that would be even more dominant since the overall skill level in the league will drop since the NHL starts.

Look at how the expansion had a effect on the talent level in the league. I am not saying that this will have the same effect, but if 10-15 good players stay at home it will notice. If the RSL keeps developing and in 5 years 40 players stay there it will defenitly hurt the NHL. All this is speculations though. But like I said the bottom line is that the effect on the league will be their, the size of it is what is debatable.

 

[Pepper]

Why don't you just admit that you don't have a clue what you are talking about? I would bet anything on that you didn't even know that their was a league called the RSL when you made your first post about how everone who thought that Europe could have a effect on the NHL were dreamers.

Why would I stop embarassing you? This is way too entertaining watching you squirm. Like I said, you have been proven wrong on so many issues here (redline & entry cap etc) that I've lost count already.

Scenario 1. A really good young player stays at home a few more years. Don't know if the rumors surronding Datsyuk/Kovalchuk/Ovechkin are true but no smoke without fire. If these guys stay at home its because they are getting allot of money. AK Bar Kazan had a payroll of 30m USD last year. We might see some future franchise players bolt in and out of the NHL their first years if things doesn't suit them.

AK Kazan had a huge payroll last yearand they played for crowds of under 5000, do you seriously expect them to keep that payroll in the future? Extremely unlikely.

Also, why would russian players stay in Russia as that means less money for them in the long term? The quicker they come to NHL, the more they will earn.

Scenario 2. If a team like AK Bar/Dynamo Moscow wants a icon to build the team around they could easily get a oligark to pay someone like Kovalchuk/Ovechkin a ton of money. The RSL are improving by the year. The CBA would be for what 10 years? There will be new Oveckins and Kovalchuks comming out of russia. One of thoose might not make it to the NHL.

If, if, if...You're making empty threats based on idle speculation. Whether the entry cap is 1.1 or 1.8 is pretty much irrelevant in those cases.

Scenario 3. Even with a new CBA their will be teams who sucks, their will be a Pittsburg Penguins even in 06', 07' and 08'. Take a young hockey player from russia in the NHL playing for a team that really sucked for a few years. He is in his 3rd year of his contract. A team in russia offers him a the same amount he makes in NA tax free and the NHL might loose that player forever. Remember a 2nd/3rd liner in the NHL could be a mega star in europe.

If the player gets the same amount of money from russia as Pens, he's not a star player and won't be missed. Good riddance I say.

Scenario 4. A player who is not a 1st round pick but who have improved allot after the age of 18. Kind of like Marek Zidlicky. A hockey career is only so long and a player like Zidlicky could easily have made more then 1.1m in russia next year. No NHL for him?

Zidlicky would have earned 1.5M last year in the NHL. Your point again?

Finns and Swedes won't be affected but you seems to have a problem looking past the lakes of Saarijärvi. For some eastern europeans the RSL will be a option.

That has been the case for several years now, I haven't missed players like Tverdovsky at all.

 

[Montrealer]

I don't see why Europeans, who came over to the NHL in droves from 1980 on, are all of a sudden going to stay home because salaries are readjusted to the levels they experienced in the 1990s.

I could understand if the NHL were enforcing 1970s level salaries, but that just isn't happening - and as anyone with elementary level math skills can deduce, the NHL entry level caps still pay Europeans multiples of what the average European can earn at home.

Anyone claiming otherwise is either thick or is pushing propaganda.

 

[Ola]

AK Kazan had a huge payroll last yearand they played for crowds of under 5000, do you seriously expect them to keep that payroll in the future? Extremely unlikely.

Also, why would russian players stay in Russia as that means less money for them in the long term? The quicker they come to NHL, the more they will earn.

I know that it isn't easy and please don't take it personnal. But me and about everyother fan with a genuine interest in the game knows that Ak Bar Kazan is more of a social project. Please think about it for a second, 5000 in the stands, the price of a ticket around 10 USD, and a 35m USD. You are giving the impression that you belive that AK Bar Kazan somewhat miscalculated last season and had revenues of 1 million USD while paying out 35 million. This might make sense to you right now but in a few years you might look at it from a diffrent perspective.

Ak Bar Kazan is a way to attract quality workers to live in the middle of nowhere. Metal factorys in russia with yearly profits around 600m USD have a few problems, one of them is to attract workers.

And AK Bar isn't alone. A big % of teams in RSL are "factory" teams. This is where they get their money from. Will AK Bar Kazan still pay 35m USD per year next year. No, but I am gooing to insert a probably not. But 5 million ÚSD is enough to build a decent team. So for 10 million USD they can get a avg. team and a 5 million hockey player.

 

[Tekneek]

It does not matter how the entry level cap compares to what the "average European" would make back at home. It won't be the "average European" that will be making that entry cap salary. It will be an elite young player that was drafted highly. Just like the way the current entry cap contracts were working, only the most highly drafted/highly sought after players were making the cap. The rest were making substantially less than the cap.

 

[Montrealer]

It does not matter how the entry level cap compares to what the "average European" would make back at home. It won't be the "average European" that will be making that entry cap salary. It will be an elite young player that was drafted highly. Just like the way the current entry cap contracts were working, only the most highly drafted/highly sought after players were making the cap. The rest were making substantially less than the cap.

So the European teams are going to start handing out million dollar contracts to elite young players?

Good for them.

Even at that, I'd guess that 90%+ of elite young players would be able to figure out that an NHL career has incredible earning potential compared to a career in Finland or Sweden or even Russia - it's like someone working for crap at a Wall Street firm as a rookie because he knows down the road he'll make millions, instead of staying in Iowa making decent money today but no potential to become a millionaire...

 

[Pepper]

I know that it isn't easy and please don't take it personnal.

This coming from a guy who calls me "braindead, idiot etc" via PM...Oh the irony

 

[barnburner]

jmo, but to me - less Euro players = good thing.

I'll trade a lessening of the overall skill level for more of a return
to the North American traditional approach to the game.

 

[nomorekids]

Uh, Ola...I don't really see the fact that a few 3rd line Europeans don't want to play in the NHL as a bad thing. I happily waved good-bye to Vitali Yachmenev two years ago, and welcomed Jeremy Stevenson back to Nashville in his place. If there's no appeal in playing in North America to them...so be it. Any player that feels that the payday isn't high enough to play in the best league in the world...be it Oleg Tverdovsky or Sidney Crosby...I'd not be particularly sad to see them go elsewhere. I'd rather the NHL be the place for the players with the most heart.

 

[jamiebez]

I was also the impression that the contracts many NHLers signed to play in the Russian Elite League during the lockout were non-guaranteed.

Discuss.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I am no expert, but I remember reading on these boards from one who was over there and seemingly in the know that one Russian club threw money out last year to win it all, and that it was a one time thing. Sure, a player or two may end up staying in Russia that could have made clubs here, that has always been true actually. But the big name players? Doubtful for a number of reasons, first exposure and ego (AK Bar is hardly a world stage) and second money. If they are truly as good as it seems they are they will get theirs right when that rookie cap runs out, and then some, and it is doubtful that any Russian club will choose to keep up salary wise with very many of those players. Even if they did, how much more could they offer to make up for playing against inferior competition, before less than 5,000 as your name fades from memory? Now add in potential marketing dollars that a marketed player could make in a league that is growing, etc and I highly doubt that the RSL will be a huge problem. It is mostly posturing to extort more NHL money for transfer fees.

 

[nyr7andcounting]

It will be at the beginning and end of a players career that they stay in Russia. All the best players will be in the NHL during their primes. But a lot of players will come over later and leave earlier.

 

[davemess]

You have to remember that a lot of players are very happy to get out of Russia and away from their local friendly Gangsters.

 

[mooseOAK*]

I am no expert, but I remember reading on these boards from one who was over there and seemingly in the know that one Russian club threw money out last year to win it all, and that it was a one time thing. Sure, a player or two may end up staying in Russia that could have made clubs here, that has always been true actually. But the big name players? Doubtful for a number of reasons, first exposure and ego (AK Bar is hardly a world stage) and second money. If they are truly as good as it seems they are they will get theirs right when that rookie cap runs out, and then some, and it is doubtful that any Russian club will choose to keep up salary wise with very many of those players. Even if they did, how much more could they offer to make up for playing against inferior competition, before less than 5,000 as your name fades from memory? Now add in potential marketing dollars that a marketed player could make in a league that is growing, etc and I highly doubt that the RSL will be a huge problem. It is mostly posturing to extort more NHL money for transfer fees.

Yes, it was a Russian billionaire spending money out his pocket and the ability of players to make millions of dollars depends on guys like him to continue to do that. With smaller arenas than the NHL, fewer games, and $10 tickets the market over therecertainly can't support comparable NHL salaries.