Al Montoya stats, concerns??

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bruins4777*

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Levitate said:
i think it'd be more accurate to say "the rangers have blackburn, lundqvist, and to a lesser extent, labarbera, why did they draft montoya?"

but, then i think you have to look closer at the situation...labarbera, though he has shown significant improvement in the last couple of years, doesn't seem to really have the top end talent to be a starting #1 goalie in the NHL. maybe a backup (i'm actually kinda pulling for him to win the backup job). but not a real blue chipper type.

lundqvist is awesome and is doing exceptionally once again in sweden, against NHL players.

blackburn is a question mark though...again he's STILL out with an injury, has been out for a year and a half now, and for like, 8 months of that he was doing absolutely NOTHING, no skating, nothing. now he's trying to work his way back into game shape and get into some AHL games this season...but because of his waiver status, he can't play in the AHL again after this season. the rangers have to protect him and would have to expose him to waivers if they wanted him to play in hartford. so he basically has to hope to get into some games this year, manage to shake off the rust, and then be ready to play in the NHL next year. (this is assuming that the lockout is over and the waiver rules don't change). it's a sticky situation, and again he's still not even all the way back yet. so he's a question mark.

now if blackburn is a question mark, the rangers don't know how they're gonna be able to handle him...they're only left with one real legit #1 goalie prospect that is a "sure" thing, lundqvist.

personally i don't feel comfortable with only 1 good goaltending prospect. so the rangers took the best player available (they felt) who was also a goalie to help solidify that spot in their farm system that might not be as solid as it appears


I had the same doubts about lababera as you, but i dunno the way he approached and played the game this season really impressed.
 

BrettNYR

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Mar 26, 2004
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NYRangers said:
By the way, Sather doesn't even run the draft. Not in the least. The draft is run by Maloney and Renney.
Yeah, I know. I'm saying under Sather's watch.

And I know that Rockstrom isn't the only Euro scout.
 

BrettNYR

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Kubera55 said:
Well, again, you have to take into account the lack of first round picks. Sather's only been in town for what, five draft years? And as a general rule, NO ONE makes an impact until 3-4 years after their draft year unles they are a super-stud (and it goes without saying that those guys are almost always drafted high in the first round).

Still, Blackburn, Garth Murray, and Bryce Lampman are non European players drafted by Sather who've already made the NHL. That's not exactly chicken feed considering the Europeans , and that really only 1-2 of Sather's draft classes has had enough time to actually 'ripen'.

Are there better drafting teams than NY? Sure. But are they bottom of the barrel? Not even close. I'd actually rate the Rangers drafting success rate as top ten under Sather. The problem is that he hasn't made enough picks, or kept enough prospects, not those who he actually took.
Who traded those picks again? If I'm correct, it was Sather. He obviously didn't like the players he traded. And who do you think that the Rangers picked has great potential? Non-Euro, since the Euro scouts are pretty good. Murray isn't great, Lampman is crap, and I think the Rangers brass takes guys with low potential, but will probably make the NHL. I really don't think that the Ranger have alot of blue-chip prospects. I liked this year's draft, and thought 2003 was okay, but 2002 was horrible, and 2001 is a year we're still waiting on.

BTW, I never said that the Monkey was stupid. I over-exaggerated there, I just meant to say that I haven't really liked many of the Rangers picks, and that I hate their philosiphies.
 

Levitate

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I had the same doubts about lababera as you, but i dunno the way he approached and played the game this season really impressed.

yeah, like i said, he really improved his game last year and is working with allaire this year on things like his lateral movement, etc. i just don't think he has the top natural talent to be a starter in the NHL, but i'm more than willing to give him a more prolonged shot in the NHL and see what he can do
 

Kubera55

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Broadway Crosby said:
Who traded those picks again? If I'm correct, it was Sather. He obviously didn't like the players he traded. And who do you think that the Rangers picked has great potential? Non-Euro, since the Euro scouts are pretty good. Murray isn't great, Lampman is crap, and I think the Rangers brass takes guys with low potential, but will probably make the NHL. I really don't think that the Ranger have alot of blue-chip prospects. I liked this year's draft, and thought 2003 was okay, but 2002 was horrible, and 2001 is a year we're still waiting on.

BTW, I never said that the Monkey was stupid. I over-exaggerated there, I just meant to say that I haven't really liked many of the Rangers picks, and that I hate their philosiphies.

Well then you are talking about two different issues. I only disagree with one of them:

1) The Rangers have done a poor job of acquiring young players.

This statement is obviously true.

2) The Rangers have drafted poorly.

This statement is false.

Again, considering draft position, Sather (or his staff) have done a remarkable job building a solid farm system.

Blue-Chip, super-studs, guys who make an NHL impact in their early 20's and late teens... these are guys who get drafted highly in the first round. Sather traded those picks away, but that has more to do with category 1 than category 2.

Of the picks he's kept, he's done quite well.
 

bruins4777*

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Kubera55 said:
Well then you are talking about two different issues. I only disagree with one of them:

1) The Rangers have done a poor job of acquiring young players.

This statement is obviously true.

2) The Rangers have drafted poorly.

This statement is false.

Again, considering draft position, Sather (or his staff) have done a remarkable job building a solid farm system.

Blue-Chip, super-studs, guys who make an NHL impact in their early 20's and late teens... these are guys who get drafted highly in the first round. Sather traded those picks away, but that has more to do with category 1 than category 2.

Of the picks he's kept, he's done quite well.

Examples? :dunno:
 

bruins4777*

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Levitate said:
yeah, like i said, he really improved his game last year and is working with allaire this year on things like his lateral movement, etc. i just don't think he has the top natural talent to be a starter in the NHL, but i'm more than willing to give him a more prolonged shot in the NHL and see what he can do

He doesn't have top end talent...but i think if he continues this development and keeps a hard work ethic he can still be a decent no.1
 

Kubera55

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bruins4777 said:
Examples? :dunno:

Finding Tjutin in the second round. Finding Zidlicky in the fifth round. Finding quality depth prospects like Dominic Moore, Garth Murray, and Bryce Lampman outside of the first two rounds.

Finding Dan Blackburn (who, lest we forget, played as an 18-year-old) without a pick in the top 5.

Again, over a four year span, the Rangers have done a pretty solid job of acquiring prospects, considering their draft position.

Take a look at some other organizations that have a habit of trading away top picks and compare their haul over the last few years.

The NJ Devils got Hale (1st round), Martin (3rd round), Rupp & Danton and some prospects (notably Parise). The incredibly well regarded Red Wings, who, like the Rangers have had a habit of trading away draft picks over the last four years, boast who? Kronwall, Hurdler, ... is there an NHL'er here yet? I checked the St.Louis Blues... honestly the only name I recognize is Mapletoft. The rest are just prospects I think.

Again, the draft is a low percentage game to begin with. When you begin with the premise that the Rangers have not kept their highest picks, it's no surprise at all that they've failed to draft super-stars.
 

bruins4777*

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Kubera55 said:
Finding Tjutin in the second round. Finding Zidlicky in the fifth round. Finding quality depth prospects like Dominic Moore, Garth Murray, and Bryce Lampman outside of the first two rounds.

Finding Dan Blackburn (who, lest we forget, played as an 18-year-old) without a pick in the top 5.

Again, over a four year span, the Rangers have done a pretty solid job of acquiring prospects, considering their draft position.

Take a look at some other organizations that have a habit of trading away top picks and compare their haul over the last few years.

The NJ Devils got Hale (1st round), Martin (3rd round), Rupp & Danton and some prospects (notably Parise). The incredibly well regarded Red Wings, who, like the Rangers have had a habit of trading away draft picks over the last four years, boast who? Kronwall, Hurdler, ... is there an NHL'er here yet? I checked the St.Louis Blues... honestly the only name I recognize is Mapletoft. The rest are just prospects I think.

Again, the draft is a low percentage game to begin with. When you begin with the premise that the Rangers have not kept their highest picks, it's no surprise at all that they've failed to draft super-stars.

In their general history though the only people i can think of is beezer and leetch
 

Kubera55

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bruins4777 said:
In their general history though the only people i can think of is beezer and leetch

Richter, Zubov, Weight, Amonte, Savard, Norstrom, Johnson, York . . . but this argument was really just about the Sather era.
 

bruins4777*

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Kubera55 said:
Richter, Zubov, Weight, Amonte, Savard, Norstrom, Johnson, York . . . but this argument was really just about the Sather era.

out of all of them the only one that really came into his own with the rags is richter. I guess you could argue zubov, but he was a one dimensional dman and didn't play a great 2 way game till he went to dallas.
 

Levitate

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well what are you talking about? the rangers ability to draft or their ability to keep their young players?

the point of mentioning guys like amonte, zubov, johnsson, etc. is to show that they have drafted some very good players through the years and that their drafting really isn't as crap as some people seem to make it out to be

if you're talking about the rangers holding on to guys and not trading them away for some stupid reason, then yeah...they've screwed the pooch on that at times (though several guys were traded away to win that cup in '94 and most ranger fans will take that trade)
 

Senor Rational

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Kubera55 said:
I checked the St.Louis Blues... honestly the only name I recognize is Mapletoft. The rest are just prospects I think.

Who is Mapletoft....


....Jackman Backman Khavanov Walker Taffe Nagy Handzus, Cajanek Reasoner ....

Just off the top of my head players who the Blues drafted that have become NHL regulars in the past few years
 

bruins4777*

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Levitate said:
well what are you talking about? the rangers ability to draft or their ability to keep their young players?

the point of mentioning guys like amonte, zubov, johnsson, etc. is to show that they have drafted some very good players through the years and that their drafting really isn't as crap as some people seem to make it out to be

if you're talking about the rangers holding on to guys and not trading them away for some stupid reason, then yeah...they've screwed the pooch on that at times (though several guys were traded away to win that cup in '94 and most ranger fans will take that trade)

I didn't bash the rags on their drafting yet, i just pointed out something i noticed. I happen to think they ARE actually decent at drafting, but are very poor at developing players. Just my opinion.
 

Levitate

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Jul 29, 2004
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ok, i think your argument got lumped in with someone elses...i'll agree that they haven't done a good job of developing players. though some of them like kovalev and zubov were instrumental parts of that '94 cup, and were young back then and still young when they were traded so they didn't exactly completely mature until they were away from the rangers...not really the rangers fault in their development, just in that they traded them before they peaked

but yeah i wish they had held on to some players...but hopefully they will be doing a better job now of developing these guys...
 

Kubera55

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Mar 15, 2004
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Senor Rational said:
Kubera55 said:
I checked the St.Louis Blues... honestly the only name I recognize is Mapletoft. The rest are just prospects I think.

Who is Mapletoft....


....Jackman Backman Khavanov Walker Taffe Nagy Handzus, Cajanek Reasoner ....

Just off the top of my head players who the Blues drafted that have become NHL regulars in the past few years

Was just referring to the 'since Sather' era, i.e., post-2000. I know the Blues have done a good job in the draft, that's why I listed them for comparison purposes.
 

Jason MacIsaac

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Jan 13, 2004
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I was not a fan of Montoya before the WJC last year, after the WJC last year, before the draft or even now. His main skill is his stickhandling abilities. Without them he is a fairly average goaltender that flops on his stomach for a fairly routine shot from the point. Montoya will need a ton of positioning help and have to change his style. At this point I still feel nerveless Blackburn is a better goaltender then Montoya.

Michigan is bad? lol Its funny how a 9-4-1 team is bad when they average 33.8 shots per game vs 25.4.....which is needless to say a very low total in college hockey.
 
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