Speculation: Aho, Hurricanes discussing contract extension

[Pens x]

Yeah, because he determines how much the owner is willing to spend.

Are you an ex-Thrashers fan? Such disdain for Waddell is rather strange, if not. What's the deal?

I just don’t understand why a team hired him as the GM in 2018. He has a terrible track record. What team looks at resume from Atlanta and thinks that is our guy?

 

[BB88]

logic like that is why there will be a lockout

on the other hand.. in this twisted reality we live in... I cant blame you for making this statement. I just feel sad where this is headed.

many people will cry when the lockout happens and say that there was no reason for it... if they wont be able to see why its happening then... I cant blame them for being oblivious today.

sad sad sad times for true hockey fans

You somehow consider Pasta contract being part of the reason for that?

 

[Jerkob Slavin]

I just don’t understand why a team hired him as the GM in 2018. He has a terrible track record. What team looks at resume from Atlanta and thinks that is our guy?

He is providing the "old boys club" point of view to a new owner who is trying new things and learning his way. ALL decisions are being made by a committee, so he doesn't really have the power or authority to do much damage on his own.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I just don’t understand why a team hired him as the GM in 2018. He has a terrible track record. What team looks at resume from Atlanta and thinks that is our guy?

A team with an owner that got comfortable with the point man of the sale process and doesn't place high value on upper management and coaching, as evidenced by the nickel and dime routine he pulled this offseason.

I try not to be the type of homer that will defend anything and everything affiliated with the team, but the sky is falling outlook for the team because of Waddell is over the top. He failed at building Atlanta from the ground up, primarily beacuse of poor drafting. That's undeniable. Fortunately, the bulk of the building in Carolina has already been done for him. GMs can be better in certain types of situations than others. Jim Rutherford is an example of that. He couldn't build a consistently competitive team in Carolina, but has been extremely successful tweaking Pittsburgh.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Anything at or below $7.5 million for 7-8 years is a steal. Eager to see a deal done regardless of the number.

He better end up as good as Carolina thinks he will be because ~8mil is a lot to give a guy who has one season above 60 and hasnt necessarily been near ppg like some other young elite talents who are being paid before they break 60-70+

I dont doubt him its just a risk obviously

 

[wc17]

Their contracts will have no impact on each other Marner is on a way higher tier than Aho.

I assume you were just messing around? I see Aho and Marner as pretty damn equal over all...and Im a Leaf fan!

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I assume you were just messing around? I see Aho and Marner as pretty damn equal over all...and Im a Leaf fan!

A like for your impartiality.

Aho’s agent agrees. The difference in point production was just 4 and that's with Aho having played 4 fewer games. Aho also has the positional edge with his potential to play center.

Marner’s agent disagrees. Marner was a ~93 point caliber performer after January and that’s a level above an Aho that had a breakout stretch himself (~69 point pace over the same sample.) Marner also has the better pedigree.

Marner will make more, but the gap between the two contracts won't be significant at this point in time, imo. Maybe that's $.5-$.75 mil, if signed to the same term.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

You somehow consider Pasta contract being part of the reason for that?

there was once upon a time where a young guy would sign a contract after 3 years and people would talk about what an amazing bargain it was as he turned 25-26-27. this was how the owners/gms were able to build through the draft

teams were told... do good at drafting... find a stud outside the first 5 picks... get lucky... and you can turn the fortunes of your team around

boston did this with Bergeron, marchand, krejci, lucic… some great drafting allowed us to sign all these guys to some livable contracts in the early 2010's and this group grew up together and took us to 2 Stanley cup finals together as a core

these days if a guy has a 60 point season in his first 3 seasons people start talking 7 million dollars and they argue 'he will grow into it.'

this is the EXACT OPPOSITE MENTALITY the last 2 lockouts were fought over. when the league insisted on capped contracts for entry level deals... it was because of this thinking. when the league insisted on limiting the term of contracts... it was because of this thinking

players fought for earlier access to ufa

the two sides were planning on contracts remaining reasonable for non-ufa… and then the paydays happening once a player has earned them and become a big flashy name that can sell tickets... as an ufa

well... something happened on the way to the track Charlie brown

so... you want to get all defensive about the pastrnak contract. compared to more damaging contracts it is by far not the worst offender. and it seems like he will be a bargain even at this inflated price if you compare him to the worst possible comparables

but why are we just comparing him to the worst possible contracts? the rules allowed him to get this deal... and boston was forced to comply with it or have him become unhappy and decide to leave town on us. but why... why is that the way it is? why?

trust me if an idiot like me can see this question being risen... you know that Jacobs and his fellow governors are starting to discuss it too.

the funny thing about billionares… they will spend money on the stupidest things to satisfy their ego. 40 million on a house when 4 million would have done the job... check
400k on a car when 60k buys you a perfectly safe enough vehichle… check
4000 on a bottle of wine when most of us are happy with 40 dollars... check

billionares can spend money on whatever they want... but when the tax department comes to collect these are some of the cheapest people on the planet paying 6 figure salaries to a team of accountants to save every penny they can.

billionares don't like to be told they MUST spend their money. they want to CHOOSE... and they like to choose status symbals that boost their ego

so... when a billionare gives a 33 year old guy 6 mill... it makes him feel like a big man. hes heard of this 33 year old. the casual fans have heard. friends who don't follow hockey have heard.

its like hiring 60 year old rock stars to play at the kids birthday party... the old billionares have heard of these 60 year old rock stars

you don't have to like it... even I don't have to like it... this is straight up human nature

and its why the next lockout is going to catch almost everyone with their pants down. you seem like you might be surprised what a billionare might decide to do if they get their egos offended. sadly I was a bruin fan for over 45 years and I saw what Jacobs has always done when young kids want to get paid more than he thinks they are worth

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I assume you were just messing around? I see Aho and Marner as pretty damn equal over all...and Im a Leaf fan!

the Edmonton contracts are now well known by most fans or media... some important facts were kept hush hush

when McDavid got his deal... some clever little monkey said it is the same % as Crosby. lets remember Crosby was born in 1987... wears 87... and got 8.7 million dollars. attempting to make any case at all that Crosby gave a crap about % is absolutely assanine. to further rain totally ridicule on this idea... Crosby signed a second ufa deal for the same 8.7 despite the cap having changed significantly. again demonstrating he couldn't care less about %

so why was McDavid using crosbys % as a bargaining number? obviously he wasn't. in fact the % was not the same. it was much different. and when McDavid signed the deal he asked for 100 million dollars. a very even amount of money that has nothing at all to do with %. he just liked the nice round number.

now people can say that oilers should have signed draisailt first... but draisailt camp knows they have no bargaining power until after McDavid signs. once he signs... bingo

and heres the part that no one mentions...

the oilers play in Edmonton... the home of wayne gretzkys sell off. also mark messier... paul coffey… this is a market that had perhaps the greatest team in history together and sold them off 1 by 1 rather than pay them

then came 30 years of wandering in the wildeness… fans are pretty upset about how that played out.

now a new billionare owner has bought the team and gone to the city taxpayers and said he wants the rights to renovate down town with a lot of profitable incentives thrown his way... including a very expensive arena

so here is mr gatez and the rest of the oiler brain trust hats in hands... negotiating various deals with the tax payers... and the oiler 2 best players come up for contracts... in a city where gretzky and messier were sold off in their prime...

draisailt hit the jackpot... the casual fan who doesn't think can easily be told draisailt is 80% as good as McDavid... give him 80% the money...

its a question of public relations and how it would effect the good will of the tax payers towards the team if oilers had a holdout with their top 2 players.

so... now whats going on in Toronto and Columbus? where is the public relations for these 2 teams?

the Toronto team is owned by the 2 sports media conglomerates in the land. these owners make their money keeping the fans watching the tv. popular players that drive viewership are worth their weight in gold. the news buzz surrounding the Tavares signing is gold. theres no market in the nhl that buys more merchandise. players that generate merchandise sales are gold in Toronto.

personally I don't think the economics work to keep marner… but if he does stay, his agent will have all this nucleur weapons to negotiate a contact. and it has nothing at all to do if he scored 61 points or 63 or if his plus minus was 9 or 6... that's quite irrelevant

arguments of that sort are for guys that are making 6 mill a year like the standard is for second term players who have a few points under their belt

marner is like draisailt… in a situation where he can easily get the vast majority of the public behind him in a contract battle... and with ownership that needs to be super sensitive to public good will.

I think Columbus has a healthy ticket buying public that will support the team if its winning... its a decent American market. but I doubt joe public is sitting around the dinner table stressing whether aho is going to get 6 mill or 7 mill on his contract.

Columbus can bargain hard against aho… and most fans wont even know whats going on. it wont effect their decision to buy a ticket in December to see a game at Christmas with the kids

im making no judgement at all on who is the better player... this is strictly about their bargaining position

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

un

I just don’t understand why a team hired him as the GM in 2018. He has a terrible track record. What team looks at resume from Atlanta and thinks that is our guy?

Hurricanes are actually run by a committee.

Waddell is the face of the committee. He's here to sell their decisions and take the blame for their poor decisions.

 

[StreetHawk]

there was once upon a time where a young guy would sign a contract after 3 years and people would talk about what an amazing bargain it was as he turned 25-26-27. this was how the owners/gms were able to build through the draft

teams were told... do good at drafting... find a stud outside the first 5 picks... get lucky... and you can turn the fortunes of your team around

boston did this with Bergeron, marchand, krejci, lucic… some great drafting allowed us to sign all these guys to some livable contracts in the early 2010's and this group grew up together and took us to 2 Stanley cup finals together as a core

these days if a guy has a 60 point season in his first 3 seasons people start talking 7 million dollars and they argue 'he will grow into it.'

this is the EXACT OPPOSITE MENTALITY the last 2 lockouts were fought over. when the league insisted on capped contracts for entry level deals... it was because of this thinking. when the league insisted on limiting the term of contracts... it was because of this thinking

players fought for earlier access to ufa

the two sides were planning on contracts remaining reasonable for non-ufa… and then the paydays happening once a player has earned them and become a big flashy name that can sell tickets... as an ufa

well... something happened on the way to the track Charlie brown

so... you want to get all defensive about the pastrnak contract. compared to more damaging contracts it is by far not the worst offender. and it seems like he will be a bargain even at this inflated price if you compare him to the worst possible comparables

but why are we just comparing him to the worst possible contracts? the rules allowed him to get this deal... and boston was forced to comply with it or have him become unhappy and decide to leave town on us. but why... why is that the way it is? why?

trust me if an idiot like me can see this question being risen... you know that Jacobs and his fellow governors are starting to discuss it too.

the funny thing about billionares… they will spend money on the stupidest things to satisfy their ego. 40 million on a house when 4 million would have done the job... check
400k on a car when 60k buys you a perfectly safe enough vehichle… check
4000 on a bottle of wine when most of us are happy with 40 dollars... check

billionares can spend money on whatever they want... but when the tax department comes to collect these are some of the cheapest people on the planet paying 6 figure salaries to a team of accountants to save every penny they can.

billionares don't like to be told they MUST spend their money. they want to CHOOSE... and they like to choose status symbals that boost their ego

so... when a billionare gives a 33 year old guy 6 mill... it makes him feel like a big man. hes heard of this 33 year old. the casual fans have heard. friends who don't follow hockey have heard.

its like hiring 60 year old rock stars to play at the kids birthday party... the old billionares have heard of these 60 year old rock stars

you don't have to like it... even I don't have to like it... this is straight up human nature

and its why the next lockout is going to catch almost everyone with their pants down. you seem like you might be surprised what a billionare might decide to do if they get their egos offended. sadly I was a bruin fan for over 45 years and I saw what Jacobs has always done when young kids want to get paid more than he thinks they are worth

What you said makes sense. But IMO in a salary cap world, you should pay the players who are producing for you.

You follow the Bruins, so you know how bad it is that they are paying Backes $6 million for another 3 years. I mean that 2016 free agent class has been a bust after 2 years.

Teams need to learn to say no, you early 30 year old vets are not getting 6 year deals. It will be 3 years and we can do another deal afterwards if you warrant one at age 33/34.

Majority of hockey players are risk averse. More guys will sign for term without hitting their potential like jossi and Jones rather than bet on themselves and do a bridge like subban did.

So, you are seeing more guys sign long term out of elc.

Toews was what like 28 when he began his current $10.5 mill cap hit deal? With the wear and tear he had up to that point, unlikely to see $10.5 mill of value. Closer to around $7 million of value. But that’s the mentality that you takes about.

So, teams have to decide who gets paid. Mid 20’s or mid 30’s? Is it better to be wrong that a 25 year old doesn’t deliver on expectations or a 35 year old declines?

 

[BB88]

there was once upon a time where a young guy would sign a contract after 3 years and people would talk about what an amazing bargain it was as he turned 25-26-27. this was how the owners/gms were able to build through the draft

teams were told... do good at drafting... find a stud outside the first 5 picks... get lucky... and you can turn the fortunes of your team around

boston did this with Bergeron, marchand, krejci, lucic… some great drafting allowed us to sign all these guys to some livable contracts in the early 2010's and this group grew up together and took us to 2 Stanley cup finals together as a core

these days if a guy has a 60 point season in his first 3 seasons people start talking 7 million dollars and they argue 'he will grow into it.'

this is the EXACT OPPOSITE MENTALITY the last 2 lockouts were fought over. when the league insisted on capped contracts for entry level deals... it was because of this thinking. when the league insisted on limiting the term of contracts... it was because of this thinking

players fought for earlier access to ufa

the two sides were planning on contracts remaining reasonable for non-ufa… and then the paydays happening once a player has earned them and become a big flashy name that can sell tickets... as an ufa

well... something happened on the way to the track Charlie brown

so... you want to get all defensive about the pastrnak contract. compared to more damaging contracts it is by far not the worst offender. and it seems like he will be a bargain even at this inflated price if you compare him to the worst possible comparables

but why are we just comparing him to the worst possible contracts? the rules allowed him to get this deal... and boston was forced to comply with it or have him become unhappy and decide to leave town on us. but why... why is that the way it is? why?

trust me if an idiot like me can see this question being risen... you know that Jacobs and his fellow governors are starting to discuss it too.

the funny thing about billionares… they will spend money on the stupidest things to satisfy their ego. 40 million on a house when 4 million would have done the job... check
400k on a car when 60k buys you a perfectly safe enough vehichle… check
4000 on a bottle of wine when most of us are happy with 40 dollars... check

billionares can spend money on whatever they want... but when the tax department comes to collect these are some of the cheapest people on the planet paying 6 figure salaries to a team of accountants to save every penny they can.

billionares don't like to be told they MUST spend their money. they want to CHOOSE... and they like to choose status symbals that boost their ego

so... when a billionare gives a 33 year old guy 6 mill... it makes him feel like a big man. hes heard of this 33 year old. the casual fans have heard. friends who don't follow hockey have heard.

its like hiring 60 year old rock stars to play at the kids birthday party... the old billionares have heard of these 60 year old rock stars

you don't have to like it... even I don't have to like it... this is straight up human nature

and its why the next lockout is going to catch almost everyone with their pants down. you seem like you might be surprised what a billionare might decide to do if they get their egos offended. sadly I was a bruin fan for over 45 years and I saw what Jacobs has always done when young kids want to get paid more than he thinks they are worth

Pasta contract already is a steal.

The cap has gone up and will keep going up, Aho is one of the best young players in the league with strong CV, we can't expect 4-5M numbers in todays league, it's not realistic.
Superstars are getting 10-12.5M today, Aho won't get even close to that and could be a franchise level player through his next contract, at 7.5Mx8y franchise player is on a steal contract moving forward.

As said above the mistake today is paying those UFA contracts to declining players, those are team killers, those are some of the worst contracts in the league.
Pasta at 6.66M is a steal.

Carolina has Slavin at 5.3M for the next 7 years, drafted him. Pesce at 4.025M for the next 6 years, drafted him, let's say Aho at 7.5M for the next 9 years(includes 1 ELC year), drafted him. That gives Carolina a fantastic base to build around their team.

 

[Pens x]

un


Hurricanes are actually run by a committee.

Waddell is the face of the committee. He's here to sell their decisions and take the blame for their poor decisions.

Brind’Amour and Waddell as coach and GM; this will be very entertaining for 30 other teams.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Well the one good thing Carolina has is an abundance of cap space. Does Waddell realize that he could have spent another almost $20 million under the cap this offseason?

Someone should email him to his AOL.com email address.

Once again, you can’t stay away from Canes threads even though you said you don’t care about them. You have some sort of fetish for the Canes, don’t you? Pretty funny.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yeah, because he determines how much the owner is willing to spend.

Are you an ex-Thrashers fan? Such disdain for Waddell is rather strange, if not. What's the deal?

He/she has some weird fetish for the Canes. Said nobody cares about Sabres and canes in the Skinner thread, yet continues to post about the Canes all the time. Comical.

 

[Jerkob Slavin]

Brind’Amour and Waddell as coach and GM; this will be very entertaining for 30 other teams.

Imagine their faces when we squeak into the 8 spot and win a couple of rounds...

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

there was once upon a time where a young guy would sign a contract after 3 years and people would talk about what an amazing bargain it was as he turned 25-26-27. this was how the owners/gms were able to build through the draft

teams were told... do good at drafting... find a stud outside the first 5 picks... get lucky... and you can turn the fortunes of your team around

boston did this with Bergeron, marchand, krejci, lucic… some great drafting allowed us to sign all these guys to some livable contracts in the early 2010's and this group grew up together and took us to 2 Stanley cup finals together as a core

these days if a guy has a 60 point season in his first 3 seasons people start talking 7 million dollars and they argue 'he will grow into it.'

this is the EXACT OPPOSITE MENTALITY the last 2 lockouts were fought over. when the league insisted on capped contracts for entry level deals... it was because of this thinking. when the league insisted on limiting the term of contracts... it was because of this thinking

players fought for earlier access to ufa

the two sides were planning on contracts remaining reasonable for non-ufa… and then the paydays happening once a player has earned them and become a big flashy name that can sell tickets... as an ufa

well... something happened on the way to the track Charlie brown

so... you want to get all defensive about the pastrnak contract. compared to more damaging contracts it is by far not the worst offender. and it seems like he will be a bargain even at this inflated price if you compare him to the worst possible comparables

but why are we just comparing him to the worst possible contracts? the rules allowed him to get this deal... and boston was forced to comply with it or have him become unhappy and decide to leave town on us. but why... why is that the way it is? why?

trust me if an idiot like me can see this question being risen... you know that Jacobs and his fellow governors are starting to discuss it too.

the funny thing about billionares… they will spend money on the stupidest things to satisfy their ego. 40 million on a house when 4 million would have done the job... check
400k on a car when 60k buys you a perfectly safe enough vehichle… check
4000 on a bottle of wine when most of us are happy with 40 dollars... check

billionares can spend money on whatever they want... but when the tax department comes to collect these are some of the cheapest people on the planet paying 6 figure salaries to a team of accountants to save every penny they can.

billionares don't like to be told they MUST spend their money. they want to CHOOSE... and they like to choose status symbals that boost their ego

so... when a billionare gives a 33 year old guy 6 mill... it makes him feel like a big man. hes heard of this 33 year old. the casual fans have heard. friends who don't follow hockey have heard.

its like hiring 60 year old rock stars to play at the kids birthday party... the old billionares have heard of these 60 year old rock stars

you don't have to like it... even I don't have to like it... this is straight up human nature

and its why the next lockout is going to catch almost everyone with their pants down. you seem like you might be surprised what a billionare might decide to do if they get their egos offended. sadly I was a bruin fan for over 45 years and I saw what Jacobs has always done when young kids want to get paid more than he thinks they are worth

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

What you said makes sense. But IMO in a salary cap world, you should pay the players who are producing for you.

You follow the Bruins, so you know how bad it is that they are paying Backes $6 million for another 3 years. I mean that 2016 free agent class has been a bust after 2 years.

Teams need to learn to say no, you early 30 year old vets are not getting 6 year deals. It will be 3 years and we can do another deal afterwards if you warrant one at age 33/34.

Majority of hockey players are risk averse. More guys will sign for term without hitting their potential like jossi and Jones rather than bet on themselves and do a bridge like subban did.

So, you are seeing more guys sign long term out of elc.

Toews was what like 28 when he began his current $10.5 mill cap hit deal? With the wear and tear he had up to that point, unlikely to see $10.5 mill of value. Closer to around $7 million of value. But that’s the mentality that you takes about.

So, teams have to decide who gets paid. Mid 20’s or mid 30’s? Is it better to be wrong that a 25 year old doesn’t deliver on expectations or a 35 year old declines?

theres certainly a logic to paying people for the work they do today... tomorrow... but that logic has never been part of the union movement. unions have always prized seniority. unions have been around most than 100 years... and they always protect the members that have their time served and their dues paid.

you go to an assembly line plant at ford... they don't pay the guy busting his butt any more than they pay the guy taking the extra long coffee break because its not about who is working hardest or getting the most lug nuts tightened.

nhl is a unionized sport.

but nhl is also an entertainment business. the consumers of nhl hockey make these guys heros… and its a glamour business to own an nhl team. these billionaire owners have other businesses that make more money... but they cant brag about owning a chain of laundry mats. owning the nhl team is the billionaire owners chance to rub shoulders with celebrity. so... these owners want 'famous brand names' playing in their big shinny arenas.

your logic is fan boy logic... and it would be like some music fan knowing the lattest garage band that is about to hit the charts. it can be exciting to know about new players but it isn't good business.

lockouts are about business. unions will be protecting their vetern members with tenure. as these young players take up a bigger and bigger chunk of the 50% hrr… vets see their escrow claw back grow and grow. remember escrow? people can say all they want that the cap has gone up... but so has escrow and clawback. the reality is, that vetn nhl players with signed guarantee contracts are not getting the money they agree to because new contracts keep getting signed that are not affordable.

new contracts are being financed by taking 10-15-20% of existing contracts back from players who signed these deals in good faith

the next cba will be negotiated between the owners who have no reason to like this system.. and union leadership which has no reason to like this system.

they already agreed to cap elc contracts.. I see a major crack down now on second term deals coming... but my question is will it be done without blood shed. I think there will be a lot of unhappy voices singing in the night the closer and closer this decision comes down. ultimately its us fans that pay the freight. I wish more of us called them to carpet on some of these decesions. its going to be us that suffers when theres no hockey for another season

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I assume you were just messing around? I see Aho and Marner as pretty damn equal over all...and Im a Leaf fan!

Aho can play center which raises his stock imo. I think he will be their 1C.

 

[LakeLivin]

Their contracts will have no impact on each other Marner is on a way higher tier than Aho.

You forgot AINEC !

 

[SensNation613]

7 x 6.75M or 8 x 7.3M is my prediction

 

[boredmale]

Not sure how much truth their is to this but.....

HockeyBuzz.com - NHL Rumors

Rumor: Canes Shopping Aho after he turns down 6per

This is crazy if true..but Kypreos was on XM and said Aho turned down an offer for 6 per for 8 years....and then I was told by a team rep in Vancouver that Canes are listening to offers...
Source: Eklund

6 Million?

 

[dogbazinho]

Eklund

 

[boredmale]

Eklund

Technically Kypreos

 

[hullsy47]

I assume you were just messing around? I see Aho and Marner as pretty damn equal over all...and Im a Leaf fan!

leafs fan too but I d live Aho
marner and him both got game AHL with tsvaras = 90 points