AHL announces divisions for 2015-16
- Thread starter LadyStanley
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HansH
Unwelcome Spectre
I think I figured out your confusion.
You're confusing the cost to purchase the FRANCHISE (the right to ice a team in a particular league, a one-time fee) with the yearly AFFILIATION cost (a yearly fee paid to the NHL team for supplying the franchise with players). These are separate items. You pay the league for the ownership of the business entity (and I believe the AHL and ECHL both also require monthly or yearly dues, on a much smaller scale), and you pay the NHL team for the players.
In any case, regardless of your confusion about affiliations versus franchises, the economics of running an AHL team are just on a completely different scale than the economics of running an ECHL team -- so all "combining the leagues" would do would either ruin half the teams by forcing them to run on an AHL budget, or you'd have teams running on AHL budgets playing in the same league as teams running on ECHL budgets -- which would be a clusterfrak of competitive imbalance and no fun for most of the fans.
Yea, tired of all this AHL elitists nonsense. The former ECHL markets in Cali have some fans bumming actually. Many were happy with their ECHL clubs when ran by locals and with more manageable budgets. Throw an NHL owned AHL team into the mix from out of town and I can assure many to be careful what ya wish for. Not always sunshine and roses. For year the Albany River Rats owner paid millions to the NJ Devils for affilation fees. Year after year the product got worse and worse. Fans in Albany said the hell with hockey, we will support local college hockey or find other forms of entertainment such as the college basketball teams. River Rats owner had to ultimately sell, fan base was busted and tired. Fast forward back come into town the Devils. The arena lets them back in on their own terms, five mostly crappy seasons and one playoff appearance, welcome to the new AHL folks. Id rather have a locally invested ECHL club with a nice affiliation that is flexable in that its on equal terms and costs to shape its own direction for the fans. Not championships every season but a decent chance to make the playoffs and give it a go atleast. Tired of these arrogant old school AHL fans who assert ECHL hockey as not even on par with high school or DIII hockey, shows how little they know and level of ignorance.
210
Registered User
The average MiLB ticket is $7 from what I've seen. How much are they giving the MLB team? A dollar a sale? Everyone knows all the tickets aren't sold. So even if it was true we're looking at $1-200,000 tops. That's about a 5th rounder's signing bonus. Peanuts at most to them. And I can't find can't documentation that it is true.
The team getting all other revenue isn't always true either. All the deals are different. Someone is always reaching into the pot.
The team getting all other revenue isn't always true either. All the deals are different. Someone is always reaching into the pot.
GarbageGoal
Courage
You really are hanging your hat for this argument on the one AHL team that is a total joke because the parent doesn't take minor league hockey seriously. A joke that the NHL team is now finally starting to regularly pay for, despite their fluke appearance in the SC finals a couple years back.
The bumming fans will be fine when their team wins, and others will complain "it was better before!" if they lose. That's how it goes in any sport.
Ahhh yea I am, your from Rhode Island, Bruins fan I am sure lol. Providence enjoys a much better relationship then most AHL markets do with their parent clubs. Actually Providence is nothing more then an extension of Boston or suburb if you ask me. That town has a total Boston feel, almost lacking of its own identity. Anyway back to that hockey, vast majority of the AHL markets today and into future will not enjoy the AHL and NHL relationship and respect that P-Town and Bo Town will ever enjoy. When you experience AHL life on the other side let let me know lol... Those Chowder Hound New Englan daas...
GarbageGoal
Courage
I make no bones about the fact this market would be in serious trouble like any other minor league team if we weren't the affiliate of a parent club. And that Worcester, Lowell, Manchester, etc would boom if they got the Bruins AHL affiliate. But we here in Providence know what it's like to lose and AHL team. We had one for 40 years and lost it and went with nothing for 15. Not sure if you were aware of that, kid. We almost got saddled with Utica in 1992, by the way because of Idiot Lou's relationship with Providence, had Anderson and Duross not closed the deal in time.
I would support almost any other team that came through here because I love hockey. I say almost, because I hate some parent clubs. I wouldn't support a Habs affiliate. And I would support an ECHL team. But don't tell me it right there with the AHL, because it's not. I've seen an ECHL game live. It's not, and that's fine.
Really don't get why you had to get so angry and so personal. But it's funny, considering three teams in California are all going to be affiliated with a California NHL team, which will certainly help. Same situation your are mocking me for.
210
Registered User
Took me approximately 30 seconds
http://beacon.wharton.upenn.edu/entrepreneurship/2013/08/the-economics-of-minor-league-baseball/
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
Hockey playoffs are probably a bigger crapshoot than the NFL playoffs. Anybody can get on a roll at the right time.
NJ isn't the only example one can think of. The Sabres are LOL worthy but the Americans were no better. Usually if the big club is trash the little club should be good...not as bad.
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
I get all that but despite being the same league would you say the competitive balance is actually even in the AHL? Why is a team like WBS or Hershey always good and a team like Binghamton or Albany usually subpar? Maybe Hershey wasn't a fair example to use in here as they are independently owned but at the same time it probably is easier to win independent vs NHL owned. Independent your goal should be to win not make money...though you want to. Most minor league sports franchises are nothing but money losers. Just how minor league sports work. Nobody should get into minor league sports expecting to make money. Maybe NHL owned teams know that...maybe they don't. But it makes sense that they can struggle. Their sole purpose is to benefit the big club. An NHL owner would care more about that because that one is more likely to turn a profit. The minor league team could just be a tax write off. I guess it just comes down to how much they care. Which isn't equal across the board.
ZekeA
The Pride is Back...
"Sports Enthusiast":
Binghamton is independently owned by a local group here in the city......
Hershey if they wanted to would most likely win the cup every season.. IF they wanted to as their pockets are so very deep. The Bears have missed making the playoffs lately, happens even to Hershey......
WBS most often has a competitive team and does play in the post season a lot.....
Albany is owned by the Devil and they do not qualify for the playoffs very much...............
Binghamton has made the playoffs the playoffs 3 of the past 5 seasons..... Including winning the Cup in 2011 after 38 seasons of hockey in the city................
Yes most teams lose $ nature of the AHL hopefully not a lot but losses happen.....................
NHL teams are trying to make their teams better up top so they are making moves without much of a thought about their AHL team.....
AHL lineups can change from week to week depending on how many get called up or injured in the AHL........
Every team in the AHL has it's own business model.... 30 different ways of running a team no 2 are alike so that makes it hard to generalize this league....................
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
You wouldn't think that because outside of that lucky run when they won the cup they've been nowhere close. They've seen a lot of hilariously bad records since the lockout 04-05 season where they were the best.
Hershey made the 2nd round this year. I don't think they could win the cup every year if they wanted to. Playoffs are too much of a crapshoot because you never know which team will get what guys sent down and that can be a game changer.
AHL roster changes aren't as bad as the ECHL. You're guys are only going up to the big club and maybe dealing with injuries. Where as most ECHL team rosters are subjected to guys being available to go rot in any AHL city. Most of the team you start October with is gone by the holiday time and some guys are never coming back. Atleast in the AHL you get guys who aren't incapable of atleast trying to play where as ECHL teams have FHL guys and whatever guys are just laying low for replacements. Guys you'd never want on your team but have to. Some ECHL guys go up and do well. Almost never happens when the ECHL team has to sign some random guy.
I don't think there can be too many business models out there particularly for the teams that are NHL owned. Obviously a local team really wants to win because you have your blood and guts all over it and as unlikely as it is you want to try and make money and you have to do what you can to try to. Nothing beats trying to make money by winning. Who wants to pay to watch a bad team?
I did read the Beacon article. That's great it took you about 30 seconds. There are too many other errors and overgeneralizations in it to find it a credible source. I realize that the guy says he's a part owner of a MiLB team. The owner I worked for told me straight up that they didn't pay the MLB team anything. And he was shocked at the figures AHL pay NHL owners.
There's an equal chance that the writer is being duped by the other owners on a line in the budget. Or their team does pay that percentage. But ALL teams don't. That blog entry sounded more like he was bragging about owning part of a team than anything else.
There's an equal chance that the writer is being duped by the other owners on a line in the budget. Or their team does pay that percentage. But ALL teams don't. That blog entry sounded more like he was bragging about owning part of a team than anything else.
Binghamton had one "hilariously bad record" in 2006-07. Aside from that season, they've only been under .500 twice since the lockout year and one of those seasons was 2005-06 when they were 35-37-4-4. They won the division in 2013-14 and had 96 points in 2012-13. Don't see how that's "hilariously bad". They also weren't the best team during the lockout year, Rochester was.
I'm also not sure how their cup run was "lucky" considering they had the AHL's leading scorer and one of the more rounded teams in the league. They also won 3 straight overtime games to come back from a 3-1 series deficit in the division semifinals, so I'd think their luck would've ran out somewhere. But that's an argument for another day I suppose.
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210
Registered User
Hey guy, I personally worked for the team and dealt with equipment. So yes, I have much firsthand knowledge that what he wrote wasn't true with my team (or the other teams in the league- that I talked with employees of). Some examples: TRUTH: the players provided their own bats (he says it's a split between MiLB and MLB); TRUTH: the MiLB and MLB split the cost of the balls evenly (not MLB paying the Majority), "many" teams contract out concession (TRUTH: I'd say a few tops from the parks I've been to).
The article isn't that long, not even a big deal, but nowhere else does it say that all teams pay part of their ticket revenue. There's a big FAQ section on MLB.com, no mention. What he's saying could be true with his team, who knows, but it's not true with all teams from my first hand experience. IF three things aren't right, there's a good chance that the forth isn't either.
His writing sounds like a suit sitting at a bar running his mouth trying to impress a couple of girls.
The article isn't that long, not even a big deal, but nowhere else does it say that all teams pay part of their ticket revenue. There's a big FAQ section on MLB.com, no mention. What he's saying could be true with his team, who knows, but it's not true with all teams from my first hand experience. IF three things aren't right, there's a good chance that the forth isn't either.
His writing sounds like a suit sitting at a bar running his mouth trying to impress a couple of girls.
ZekeA
The Pride is Back...
"Sport Enthusiast":
Lucky on the 2011 Cup run for Binghamton that 1st series against Manchester was a WAR for 7 games with almost all the games going to OT in the series. One break the other way and yes Manchester would of moved on to the next round, that was a war.....
After that Binghamton was better than Portland winning in 6 games. The Checkers just did not play well and lost to the Sens in 4 games..
The finals against Houston Binghamton won the Cup in 6 games they were the better team...
How many games did you watch of the Sens playoff run that year I watched 11 here in Binghamton, but yet you have the audacity to say it was lucky...........
Hilariously bad records WHAT you want to see a putrid record~~!!!!!
The 1989-1990 Binghamton Whalers they were 11-60-9 now that was a putrid team only way you could watch them was to be loaded. I called them Dougy & the doormats........
If Hershey wanted to with their very very deep pockets they could challenge to win the cup every year. It is a game so not an exact science to predict if a goalie went bad Ect......
No idea about the ECHL roster changes will take your word on that as I have a hard enough time trying to keep up with the AHL East........
I was told by 1 of the local owners here that in the AHL you have 30 different business models. So unless you are an owner I will take his word for it, no matter what you think......
210
Registered User
That's his "personal experience" and written in a blog. Problem is that is generalized and not accurate. Any decent middle school teaches kids that blogs are not reliable. I guess I could write my own blog. Or I could link what I wrote earlier and it would hold the same weight.
I personally don't care if you believe me or not. I care even less about what you'd like. I worked there for 5 years and know what the deals were. No offense, but writing things like that take credibility and people who actually know what they're talking about away from the board. Seems like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing, and sadly I found myself in the middle of:
http://boardofwisdom.com/togo/Quotes/ShowQuote?msgid=199814#.VXsY8aTD8dU
I personally don't care if you believe me or not. I care even less about what you'd like. I worked there for 5 years and know what the deals were. No offense, but writing things like that take credibility and people who actually know what they're talking about away from the board. Seems like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing, and sadly I found myself in the middle of:
http://boardofwisdom.com/togo/Quotes/ShowQuote?msgid=199814#.VXsY8aTD8dU
LadyStanley
Registered User
DeadGhost
Ugistered Reger
- Feb 15, 2010
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If San Antonio or Texas miss the playoffs, it's their own fault. The were each just handed a sixteen point lead in the Pacific Division.
210
Registered User
Ahh, yes, the "I'm above this" card. One of the internet's greatest hits.
This is the bio of Robert J. Chalfin, the person in question here. He didn't make that posting, someone else did, and I presume the posting is based on parts of a lecture:
http://entrepreneurship.wharton.upenn.edu/teaching/faculty/chalfin.html
That bio doesn't sound like a guy that doesn't know what's he talking about, considering a Google search of him shows he's speaking about the economics of a minor league baseball team:
http://www.whartonny.com/article.html?aid=2403
talkinaway
Registered User
For those hyperventilating about the imbalance in the number of games played in the Pacific, keep in mind that they're likely going to revamp the format of the Calder Cup. Check out the bottom of http://theahl.com/ahl-announces-alignment-for-2015-16-p197883 - news will out in early July of the actual format.
They could revamp the playoffs to be division-based - four teams from each division qualify. Yes, it helps the North and Pacific to be best 4/7 instead of 4/8, but at least you're comparing apples to apples in the Pacific, and considering there's not 32 teams, that's going to be an issue no matter what you'd do.
You could have four rounds - division semis, division final, conference final, and Calder Cup. In the ECF, home ice could be determined as it normally is, comparing points. In the West, when you have to compare Central to Pacific, you could either compare point percentage, or give home ice to the team with the better head-to-head record.
Or, hell, you could just flip a coin, or alternate home ice priority season-by-season - this year, Atlantic, Central, and East get home ice, while next year it's North, Pacific, and West.
Yeah, the Pacific is going to have an advantage with having 8 fewer games when compared to the other divisions. I've always wondered how the AHLers do three-in-a-row...and, unfortunately, we don't live in a Platonic world where everything's ideal.
They could revamp the playoffs to be division-based - four teams from each division qualify. Yes, it helps the North and Pacific to be best 4/7 instead of 4/8, but at least you're comparing apples to apples in the Pacific, and considering there's not 32 teams, that's going to be an issue no matter what you'd do.
You could have four rounds - division semis, division final, conference final, and Calder Cup. In the ECF, home ice could be determined as it normally is, comparing points. In the West, when you have to compare Central to Pacific, you could either compare point percentage, or give home ice to the team with the better head-to-head record.
Or, hell, you could just flip a coin, or alternate home ice priority season-by-season - this year, Atlantic, Central, and East get home ice, while next year it's North, Pacific, and West.
Yeah, the Pacific is going to have an advantage with having 8 fewer games when compared to the other divisions. I've always wondered how the AHLers do three-in-a-row...and, unfortunately, we don't live in a Platonic world where everything's ideal.
