After trading Marner for Heiskanen, would Leafs be more or less likely to win cup this season?

[Dr Salt]

Isn’t the against part good if negative or close to zero?
Showing Dahlin is playing better D

They are even production wise with more better chances going to Dallas(not resulting in more production) and Dahlin is better at stopping good chances against and corsi against.

the against part is measured the same way the for part is against the y axis. The higher the bar on the y axis the better

 

[supsens]

the against part is measured the same way the for part is against the y axis. The higher the bar on the y axis the better

Are you sure? When I read about how it was created you want a minus in the against, meaning your taking less shots against and less expected goals against.

Reviving Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus for Hockey

Note: a negative value for defense is a good thing – a skater with a negative defensive coefficient decreased CF60 against while playing defense.

 

[Dr Salt]

Are you sure? When I read about how it was created you want a minus in the against, meaning your taking less shots against and less expected goals against.

Reviving Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus for Hockey

Note: a negative value for defense is a good thing – a skater with a negative defensive coefficient decreased CF60 against while playing defense.

the negative is good for when its measured raw but the bars being higher up = higher defense for CA/60 and xGA/60. It measures positive contribution there is the way to word it.

 

[Krewe]

Maybe if they had dahlin. Heiskanen is very overrated

Maybe if they had Hughes. Dahlin is very overrated

 

[Mez]

Haha wow the one guys bait completely derailed this thread ...well played.

 

[lauraP]

Maybe if they had Hughes. Dahlin is very overrated

Lmfao you can talk all you want but if Vans gm or dal gm were offer dahlin for Hughes / heiskanen they would say yes in a heartbeat, thanks for coming out

 

[JarvisFunk]

Someday Kyle Dubas will wake up and realize you need a) to defend, and b) a measurable amount of grit and toughness to win in this league. Whether or not he has to be fired for this to happen remains the question.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Yes because another offensive minded dman that can't defend is exactly what the Leafs need.

Which isn't the plan.
Its Dmen who can move the puck out fast.

 

[tony d]

Option 3. Marner's not the problem in Toronto. They should keep him.

 

[Kaner9]

There is no D in Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[biturbo19]

A balanced team with some impact defencemen who can play both ends of the ice...is just such a huge advantage. Especially in a playoff series where it's the same grinding matchup night after night.


Heck...for the Leafs...a Marner for Heiskanen swap would probably let them convert Barrie into something to re-bolster the forward corps at the deadline.

 

[EXTRAS]

This season?
Better chance with Marner who is on pace for 101 points. Not interested in trying to win a cup with a 20 year old dman over a guy pacing over 100 points.

In a few years? No idea.

 

[Unspecified]

Maybe if they had dahlin. Heiskanen is very overrated

HA! Probably the funniest thing i heard so far this month.

 

[Unspecified]

Well if that is the case, that is the case with Heiskanen too, since Dahlin is much better offensively and defensively compared to Heiskanen, right now! Statistically he has always been and will always be far ahead. Dahlin is litteraly years ahead despite being younger.

I would take Heiskanen 11 times out of 10 over Dahlin. Not to mention Buffalo is a defenseman killing organization Dahlin is no way better than Miro defensively whatsoever. Get your head out of the sand!

Now back on topic - Heiskanen would put them over the top IMO but honestly, I doubt Dallas would even entertain that offer actually.

 

[AB13]

I would take Heiskanen 11 times out of 10 over Dahlin. Not to mention Buffalo is a defenseman killing organization Dahlin is no way better than Miro defensively whatsoever. Get your head out of the sand!

Now back on topic - Heiskanen would put them over the top IMO but honestly, I doubt Dallas would even entertain that offer actually.

Dahlin has comparable defensive stats and f***ing massively better numbers offensively, while being a year younger, so there is no reason at all to take Heiskanen. Those absolute facts are all very hard to argue against.!

 

[Unspecified]

Dahlin has comparable defensive stats and ****ing massively better numbers offensively, while being a year younger, so there is no reason at all to take Heiskanen. Those absolute facts are all very hard to argue against.!

Dahlin is not close to the defensive dman that Heiskanen is. Dahlin may be a better offensively but it is still early in their careers. This whole age thing is blown way the f*** out of proportion. It is not like Dahlin is 18 and Heiskanen is 26 they are more like what 8 months apart? Get over that stupid logic already.

 

[lauraP]

Dahlin is not close to the defensive dman that Heiskanen is. Dahlin may be a better offensively but it is still early in their careers. This whole age thing is blown way the **** out of proportion. It is not like Dahlin is 18 and Heiskanen is 26 they are more like what 8 months apart? Get over that stupid logic already.

dahlin made history last season. what was Heiskanen doing when he was 18 ?

 

[Kamiccolo]

Same thing as with Muzzin and all these others. The moment he became a Leaf suddenly he wouldn't be nearly as good as he is viewed now and people's opinion wouldn't change.

Marner wins the Leafs a lot of games and is their best playmaker. He also has shown in the playoffs at every level. Think it's a mistake to move him if you want to win a cup. Heis is also well insulated by veteran players in a defensive system which IMO inflates his perception defensively.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Someday Kyle Dubas will wake up and realize you need a) to defend, and b) a measurable amount of grit and toughness to win in this league. Whether or not he has to be fired for this to happen remains the question.

Kind of hilarious you mention that given he added Muzzin and Holl which tick both boxes lol, not to mention guys like Engvall, Johnsson, and Soup who play on the edge all the time. Not even including guys like Hyman either.

It's a myth there is no grit, they just don't fight.

 

[TeddyBare]

If Heiskanen was right Handed I'd go with yes.

Rielly - Heiskanen
Muzzin - Barrie

that's pretty nice.

 

[NyQuil]

I think it’s a no-brainer.

Heskainen could end up like a Doughty only he’s much younger.

I would do this trade in a second if I was Toronto.

Wouldn’t it free up some cap room at the same time?

 

[AB13]

Dahlin is not close to the defensive dman that Heiskanen is. Dahlin may be a better offensively but it is still early in their careers. This whole age thing is blown way the **** out of proportion. It is not like Dahlin is 18 and Heiskanen is 26 they are more like what 8 months apart? Get over that stupid logic already.

Well, looking at stats, they are about the same level defensively, and Dahlin has heavily outproduced him. Regardless, just looking at stats they can easily be compared defensively, while the offensive production is hugely different. A players offensive skill set isn't massively going to improve with age either, defensive play usually will though. There is a 9 month difference between them, which is a night and day difference at that age.

 

[Kcb12345]

Dahlin is not close to the defensive dman that Heiskanen is. Dahlin may be a better offensively but it is still early in their careers. This whole age thing is blown way the **** out of proportion. It is not like Dahlin is 18 and Heiskanen is 26 they are more like what 8 months apart? Get over that stupid logic already.

That guy is not worth your time. Heiskanen could put up 100 points, win the Norris, Hart, and be the best defensive dman in the league and he'd still argue Dahlin is still better even if he turned out to be a bust

That's an exaggeration obviously, but my point is he's a waste of time to argue with over this

 

[Hockey Crazy]

I would trade Matthews, before this kid he is Kane like

I love both but matthews is way better.

 

[AB13]

That guy is not worth your time. Heiskanen could put up 100 points, win the Norris, Hart, and be the best defensive dman in the league and he'd still argue Dahlin is still better even if he turned out to be a bust

That's an exaggeration obviously, but my point is he's a waste of time to argue with over this

Since Dahlin has scored more by a huge margin, and has comparable defensive stats while being younger, I can’t see any logical reason to take Heiskanen. You are the one arguing something strange here.