After Dahlin, how do you tank a year?

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
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"You" means you, personally. You're in charge of the roster that just miraculously got Dahlin, and Ilitch tells you he wants another high pick the year after. What do you do?

Bear in mind you can't undo what's already been done (bad contracts are in place, you can't trade them just because you want to- you are starting the day after drafting Dahlin with the actual current situation in place). Dahlin makes our D a lot better. We assume the players will not purposely tank even if you tell them to. Assume Blashill will also not purposely tank even if you tell him to. And even last season, the worst Wings team we've seen in decades was "only" 5th from last with basically no prayer of ever catching the Sabres.

What's your plan?

** I'm worried the tone of this post seems argumentative. It's not intended that way. I'm just curious and want to see strategies and interesting ideas.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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Keep the roster as is. It's still not good enough to compete. Dahlin doesn't magically make the Wings a Playoff team.
I respect that opinion, but I think since top2 D is our biggest hole, that is the place where we can get biggest impact from an elite talent. I can see him boosting us at least a few spots, likely to 10th-15th. Is that good enough?
 

Ezekial

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I respect that opinion, but I think since top2 D is our biggest hole, that is the place where we can get biggest impact from an elite talent. I can see him boosting us at least a few spots, likely to 10th-15th. Is that good enough?
Who says he's a gonna be bona fide top 2 NHL D at 18?

Hes am an amazing player, idk if he makes us a playoff team.

If Rasmussen comes in flawlessly and Dahlin along with improvement from Mantha etc, maybe. But Idk man.
 
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TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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Who says he's a gonna be bona fide top 2 NHL D at 18?

Hes am an amazing player, idk if he makes us a playoff team.

If Rasmussen comes in flawlessly and Dahlin along with improvement from Mantha etc, maybe. But Idk man.
I don't think they are likely to make us a playoff team. But I don't think people generally consider a successful tank to be picking 10th overall. So I'm asking how do you optimize that given our current situation? This is all assuming we're out of the playoffs whether we like it or not, the question is just by how much.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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Easy

Dahlin stays with in Europe another season

We add Bert, Svech and Hronek fulltime from day one

We dont sign Green

We trade nyquist and Daley at the deadline and bring up Ras

Bottom five team
Do you think some combination of Bert, Svech, Hronek, Ras could ruin that plan by overachieving too much?
 

Hen Kolland

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Feb 22, 2018
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This is an interesting hypothetical, but my goal would be to kind of build to the future by equipping the team with as much youth as possible. Realistically, I'd trade whoever I could that I don't see playing a prominent role in the future. Nyquist would be my primary effort, with Athanasiou being available for an overpayment, but my intent would be to leverage his "meh" year into another cheap contract.

Turn my focus to defense and try to trade Daley to a contender in need of help; would imagine he would be open to it considering this is probably his last contract. Trade Jensen/Ouellet for whatever someone is willing to give me, or waive/cut them loose.

Resign Coreau and a vet goalie to a one year deal. Retain as much as possible and trade Howard.

This would give me the chance to bring in Rasmussen and Svechnikov at forward, Dahlin+Hronek+Cholowski on defense. I might not be able to control Blashill's lines, but this is ultimately what I would be hoping for. Zetterberg on a possession dominant line with players who are best suited for that style of game. Larkin's line composed of players that can keep up with each other and have shown chemistry in the past. Giving Nielsen some young, impressionable wingers that are more offensively focused, and hopefully get some value out of Nielsen's contract. Let the other guys serve as a shutdown line (knowing that none of them will end up sitting for Turgeon). Pair each veteran D with a young D, no real reasoning other than putting Dahlin with the most accomplished vet capable of being a mentor.

Bertuzzi-Zetterberg-Rasmussen
Athanasiou-Larkin-Mantha
Frk-Nielsen-Svechnikov
Helm-Glendening-Abdelkader
Turgeon

Dekeyser-Hronek
Kronwall-Dahlin
Ericsson-Cholowski
Witkowski

Veteran
Coreau

You accomplish all this, with all the youth and inexperience/learning curve meshing with the old age and regression, chances are you finish at the bottom. And if you finish higher, then chances are we are sitting here with a little more optimism about the future than we are right now. The nice thing about this is you throw everyone out there in this fashion and you don't have to actively root against them because any success is just building up the younger players.
 

ricky0034

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Jun 8, 2010
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how good would Dahlin even be at 18 really? this isn't like forwards even the fast developing defensemen tend to take a year or so to really hit their strides

just don't bring Green back and I don't see the defense getting much better next year even with Dahlin
 

NickH8

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Jul 3, 2015
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Meme Version: Trade Howard and run with a Coreau McCollum tandem.

Realistically:
Trade Athanasiou for a d-prospect. I defended him in the Nyquist thread but you guys changed my mind.
Trade Ouellet to Montreal for scraps, they'll take him because he's French.
DO NOT re-sign Green. We need to get our young defensemen as many NHL reps early as possible.

Rasmussen - Zetterberg - Nyquist (Ras goes through the learn with Zetterberg phase all of our prospects go through).
Frk - Larkin - Mantha (No reason this line should have been broken up. Let Frk make mistakes and produce 5v5, this also puts more defensive responsibility on Larkin and Mantha so they can grow that side of their game more).
Bertuzzi - Nielsen - Svechnikov (This line will make a shit ton of mistakes, but that's the point, let them learn. See what Bert can do without a star player, and get Svech some actual minutes).
Abdelkader - Glendening - Helm (Shut down 4th line, basically the void where we cast our useless players (when it comes to the rebuild). They won't do much of anything but they won't be a negative).

Daley - Hronek (Let Hronek learn on the job. He'll make mistakes, but I think he'll surprise and match Green's offensive production if given the opportunity).
Kronwall - Dahlin (Kronwall will be a good mentor for Dahlin).
DeKeyser - Ericsson (Essentially the same deal as our 4th line, just let them do their thing).

Howard
Coreau

Healthy Scratches: Witkowski, Jensen, and Tangradi or some depth guy on a PTO like Booth last year.

This team will probably give up a ton of goals, but they will be exciting and young. Trade Daley and Nyquist at the deadline. Put Svech or Bert in place of Gus, and whoever is better between DeKeyser and Ericsson with Hronek for the rest of the year.

Edit: Fixed the D because I forgot this is assuming we get Dahlin.
 
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NickH8

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Jul 3, 2015
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This is an interesting hypothetical, but my goal would be to kind of build to the future by equipping the team with as much youth as possible. Realistically, I'd trade whoever I could that I don't see playing a prominent role in the future. Nyquist would be my primary effort, with Athanasiou being available for an overpayment, but my intent would be to leverage his "meh" year into another cheap contract.

Turn my focus to defense and try to trade Daley to a contender in need of help; would imagine he would be open to it considering this is probably his last contract. Trade Jensen/Ouellet for whatever someone is willing to give me, or waive/cut them loose.

Resign Coreau and a vet goalie to a one year deal. Retain as much as possible and trade Howard.

This would give me the chance to bring in Rasmussen and Svechnikov at forward, Dahlin+Hronek+Cholowski on defense. I might not be able to control Blashill's lines, but this is ultimately what I would be hoping for. Zetterberg on a possession dominant line with players who are best suited for that style of game. Larkin's line composed of players that can keep up with each other and have shown chemistry in the past. Giving Nielsen some young, impressionable wingers that are more offensively focused, and hopefully get some value out of Nielsen's contract. Let the other guys serve as a shutdown line (knowing that none of them will end up sitting for Turgeon). Pair each veteran D with a young D, no real reasoning other than putting Dahlin with the most accomplished vet capable of being a mentor.

Bertuzzi-Zetterberg-Rasmussen
Athanasiou-Larkin-Mantha
Frk-Nielsen-Svechnikov
Helm-Glendening-Abdelkader
Turgeon

Dekeyser-Hronek
Kronwall-Dahlin
Ericsson-Cholowski
Witkowski

Veteran
Coreau

You accomplish all this, with all the youth and inexperience/learning curve meshing with the old age and regression, chances are you finish at the bottom. And if you finish higher, then chances are we are sitting here with a little more optimism about the future than we are right now. The nice thing about this is you throw everyone out there in this fashion and you don't have to actively root against them because any success is just building up the younger players.
This is probably better than mine. I don't think Holland trades Daley quite yet but this is based off of what we'd do.
 
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Ezekial

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I don't think they are likely to make us a playoff team. But I don't think people generally consider a successful tank to be picking 10th overall. So I'm asking how do you optimize that given our current situation? This is all assuming we're out of the playoffs whether we like it or not, the question is just by how much.
Just like at position #1... #3 #7 and #13 all have to get lucky to win the lottery and draft first.

We're likely to be a top 10 lottery selection next season, that's all I can ask for.
 

BinCookin

Registered User
Feb 15, 2012
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London, ON
Considering we don't really care about performance...

I would attempt to convert any veteran possible (minus Z/Kronwall who will "retire" red wings) into prospects or draft picks. I would let other GM's know I am open for business on AA for a draft pick next year or ideally a promising D-prospect (Bean / Pulock type, if necessary less valuable prospect).

Overall Hen Kollands plan is pretty good.

But I would prefer doing something like a 9 game start of season test phase on many of our young players.
Make sure that the NHL is doable for them. I don't care if they make mistakes, more like if they are playing in a way that will get them hurt. If they are not ready for the NHL, that is fine, we can put them in GR (Hronek/Cholowski) if needed.

I would also clear some vet D from our AHL team, as that is getting mighty tight down there.

But overall just continue as we have been doing.

If we get good "by accident"... what it means is Bertuzzi/Mantha/Larkin have kept improving.
Maybe we are better than we know... but we wont know until we watch them play.
 
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Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
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Do you think some combination of Bert, Svech, Hronek, Ras could ruin that plan by overachieving too much?
They would all need to overachieve quite a bit. Someone needs to pick up Tatar's goals. Green, though not all that great, was still quite productive compared to our other d-men. Someone has to pick that up. Z and Kronner will most likely become less effective. That's a lot of slack that those guys need to pick up on top of overperforming in order to make us finish better than we did this season.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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Dahlin is a phenomenal prospect, but defenseman usually take a few years to hit their stride. Victor Hedman and Seth Jones both took a little while to really take off.

Dahlin would not preclude us from drafting high next year, in my opinion. And I like the kid a ton.
 
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Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
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Tampere, Finland
I would:

- Import Dahlin to roster. Pair with Kronwall mentoring him all season.
- Import Rasmussen to roster, to play and mentor with Z.
- Trade Nyquist at draft with 50% retention for a promising goaltender like Grubauer.
- Promote Matt Puempel from Griffins.
- Trade Ericsson at deadline for picks.
- Trade Daley at deadline for picks.
- Import Cholowski after Ericsson trade.
- Import Hronek after Daley-trade.
- Trade Jimmy Howard at deadline for picks. Make Grubauer a starter.

At season start:

Rasmussen - Zeta - Mantha
Athanasiou - Larkin - Bertuzzi
Svechnikov - Nielsen - Abdelkader
Helm - Glendening - Frk/Puempel
(Witkowski)

DeKeyser - Daley
Kronwall - Dahlin
Ericsson - Jensen
(Ouellet)

Howard
(Grubauer)


After trade deadline:

Rasmussen - Zeta - Mantha
Athanasiou - Larkin - Bertuzzi
Svechnikov - Nielsen - Abdelkader
Helm - Glendening - Frk/Puempel
(Witkowski)

Kronwall - Dahlin
DeKeyser - Hronek
Cholowski - Jensen
(Ouellet)

Grubauer
(Coreau)

At 2019 summer, Zetterberg and Kronwall will retire. You will import 2019 1st pick (forward) + some some players from earlier drafts.

Also, if Erik Karlsson is in the UFA market, go with 200% effort after him.
 
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TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
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Who would you guys say was the closest past comparable to Dahlin at the top of the draft? How far back do you have to go?
 

RedWingzz

Everybody loves Raymond
Apr 14, 2009
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Keep the roster as is. It's still not good enough to compete. Dahlin doesn't magically make the Wings a Playoff team.

He makes us a contender at the least. With him the PP skyrockets.

I know, the circumstances are very different, but Hischier helped turn NJ into a playoff team.
 

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