GDT: AFC divisional round: Bills vs. Ravens (1.16.21, 8:15PM)

tsujimoto74

Moderator
May 28, 2012
29,802
21,844
Our 2 missed FGs were well wide though & the second miss was meaningless. Tucker's misses were by a matter of inches.

The Davis/Diggs plays were speculative imo (as was the late overthrow from Huntley to Brown). That is football... But anyone on this forum would probably have been able to convert that Dobbins drop. To have that somehow happen followed by the shanked punt was a huge momentum switch.

I'll have to watch the play again but i do remember thinking Johnson was going to get caught by Jackson...before the shock of realising he was running free.

As said - i don't want to take away anything from the Ds performance in particular - but this game wasn't a walkover.

Your first post essentially implied the Bills don't win if not for having dumb luck on their side. My point is that the breaks went both ways and didn't favor any one team.
 

is the answer jesus

Registered User
Mar 10, 2008
6,587
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Tonawanda, NY
Get out. Guy has a great deep ball. The wind took that away just like it took the top of the Bills offense away.
Just look at his season game by game. Out of the 19 games he played this season he had 5 games where he's thrown for more than 200 yards. In a wide open, passer friendly league that's awful. If he didnt have his elite ability running the ball he wouldnt even be a starting QB. He can't read defenses, he can't regularly make tough throws where he's under pressure or where they require anticipation. Now with that said he's an absolute weapon when he breaks contain and decides to run with the ball. He's one of if not the best I've ever seen, but it's tough to be sucessful when you're a one trick pony.
 

Rowley Birkin

Registered User
Oct 31, 2004
10,529
3,737
Your first post essentially implied the Bills don't win if not for having dumb luck on their side. My point is that the breaks went both ways and didn't favor any one team.

That post was in response to @Waterfowlist who's suggestion that the Bills 'crushed' the Ravens i disagreed with.

At no point did i try to take anything away from their performance (in fact i said the opposite).

I just think you have to look at it rationally & if possible keep your feet on the ground.
 

Mike McDermott

blah blah blah
Apr 23, 2006
19,560
4,477
Lockport
Yes we won by 2 scores, but I still won’t classify that as an easy win or easy out of Baltimore. I love how the D played but this is the playoffs, and with as stacked as the AFC is this year there are no easy outs.

Can this team win next weekend? Yes. Will it be easy? Absolutely not.
 
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WeDislikeEich

Registered User
Jun 22, 2015
5,863
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And Nick Wright. Such punch able faces, both.
I don’t even pay any attention to that guy. It’s all just an act to get social media attention, and it’s working.

Bills fans need to realize that’s just his schtick - say negative things about Allen to trigger Bills fan responses.

Deny him the attention he craves and he will go away (like most trolls).
 

WeDislikeEich

Registered User
Jun 22, 2015
5,863
4,182
Listening to the radio this morning, it was......Packers win in a laugher, Aaron Rodgers is the greatest QB ever, nobody is beating GB, so glad the NFC Championship game is going to Lambeau, Go Pack Go, oh.....and the Bills won too, but only because Tucker missed 2 FG's and the wind. :rolleyes::loony::blah:
Good! I want people openly doubting the Bills. More fuel for her fire! The players seem to thrive off of proving the doubters wrong. How many guys mentioned it after the game last night?
 
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The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,803
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Lamar seems like a total class act.

It's fun looking back at that 2018 draft, Jackson and Allen were considered the most risky picks at QB, and they have turned out to be the most prolific of that great QB class. Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, Rudolf. Both Allen and Jackson are all class also.
 

Uberpecker

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
3,407
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Just watched Kurti Warner suggesting they should ve played in a roofed environment for the best team to win.

As if the weather had favored the Bills' passing offense vs. the Ravens run offense.

Some people still seem to have a problem giving the Bills the credit they deserve.
 
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Waterfowlist

Registered User
Aug 9, 2012
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Just watched Kurti Warner suggesting they should ve played in a roofed environment for the best team to win.

As if the weather had favored the Bills' passing offense vs. the Ravens run offense.

Some people still seem to have a problem giving the Bills the credit they deserve.
I heard that and chuckled. Although I 100% agree. Now that we have an elite QB, I want a dome next year! Sick of these windy games!
 

missingmika

Registered User
Dec 9, 2006
4,513
1,795
The drops and bad throws were primarily because of the wind. I can attest that even a short throw is incredibly hard to read in wind. The ball moves like a knuckle ball. Even on a low, short throw with a tight spiral. I don’t think the Ravens lost this game as much as the Bills won it. Leslie Frazier’s game plan was excellent.

They pointed this out on the broadcast too. One of the announcers said something like the wind is making the ball move in ways these Ravens receivers never seen before.
 

Rowley Birkin

Registered User
Oct 31, 2004
10,529
3,737
I heard that and chuckled. Although I 100% agree. Now that we have an elite QB, I want a dome next year! Sick of these windy games!

Yeah. How close are they to actually following through with that though? And where would the new stadium be?

I was serious yesterday. I take a game vs KC in decent weather over a game against Cleveland in bad weather.
 

ps241

The Ballad of Ville Bobby
Sponsor
Mar 10, 2010
34,828
30,966
Winnipeg Jets fan dropping by to “salute”!!

Buffalo takes heat (like Winnipeg) and has had some great teams but doesn’t have any championships to show for it. Through the highs and the lows Buffalo have kick ass loyal fans that don’t bail on their teams. I love that about you.

Allen is a beast.....the Bills football operations appear to have their act together.....I am concerned about the lack of a run game currently.

A Browns Bills AFC final would be amazing for us fans of an underdog. Either way good luck in the AFC finals.
 

kirby11

Registered User
Mar 16, 2011
9,735
4,614
Buffalo, NY
On the broadcast replay, it looked like the pass was accurate 2/3 of the way to Diggs, then in the last 12 yards or so in the air, it clearly changed directions as it seemed to hit a wind gust and get blown off the the right.

Yeah, I'd been worried about Josh's deep accuracy at first but they showed the trajectories on long passes on a late replay, and the one to Diggs when he was wide open looked completely on point for him til the wind caught it
 
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enthusiast

cybersabre his prophet
Oct 20, 2009
18,570
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Put the Bills in a dome and they win by much more

also why I’d like to see them build one if Allen sticks around, our fan reputation nonwithstanding
 

La Cosa Nostra

Caporegime
Jun 25, 2009
14,073
2,335
Put the Bills in a dome and they win by much more

also why I’d like to see them build one if Allen sticks around, our fan reputation nonwithstanding

Oh Allen is sticking around, I have little doubt about that. And say for some reason he wouldn't want to, he will still be a Bill for the following 5 seasons after this one.

He has 1 year left on his base rookie deal, the Bills obviously are going to exercise the 5th year team option for 2022 and they then are able to franchise him for the 2023,2024 and 2025 seasons. All of that is completely moot point, it is not going to come down to it.Not only was it reported that the Bills are preparing a massive extension to Josh this summer but you also have Josh saying this on record, to the media.

"My family is forever engraved here, myself included. I don't ever want to leave,I want to play for as long as I can and give back to this community and Bills Mafia"

Josh is going no where. And yes, the Bills should absolutely build a dome. They cannot play at the Ralph much longer, the league will force their hand because of $$ and ass clowns like Jerry Jones. And if/WHEN we win the super bowl this year our brand will explode through the roof along with Joshs star shining brighter then anyone's. I think with brand value, naming rights to the NFLs new powerhouse and boasting probably the most exciting dual threat player in the league that with a new domed stadium costing 1.1-1.5 billion preferably in or very close downtown can be planned, designed, approved and then built. A new domed stadium on average takes 18-30 months to be entirely built and completed. AT&T took 26 months to build. Sofi took 4 years but that was also the most expensive and grand stadium built at 5 billion. For a 1.1-1.5 billion new stadium we could see Pegula putting up half a billion of his own money, a few hundred million from the state/county/city and then the rest paid for by the league with their stadium loan program. Even though it is technically a loan I believe the payback terms are very generous and that future revenue is used toward it making it very beneficial for the owner(s).

I know there are still old head Bills fans who still believe in no dome, that football was "meant" to be played in the elements and that if we build a dome it takes away our "advantage" against Miami. Even though we have a high octane passing offense that thrives in clear weather and NO wind, that a majority of our players either come from or played college in states/cities that are warmed weather with zero snow and that there are 4 months in a NFL seasob and that there is far more weeks in that 17 week period that will not have snow compared to ones that would. Only years that have Miami coming here in late Novemver/December would have that be a possibility and if that is one of the main reasons for arguing against a dome that is just silly. I for one, after reaching my 30s have no desire to go to the games anymore as it is just too draining. In my teens and early/mid 20s I loved it getting f***ed up with keg stands, shots,playing in the snow(heh) starting the festivities at 7-8 am but now I just can't handle it, especially having to sit in the elements on a cold and super uncomfortable bench as our "seats".

I want a dome that has brand new and top of the line food, activities, bathrooms etc not the Ralph which is old, dirty and falling apart. Hopefully we can start the planning/building the stadium by 2024 and have it ready for the 2026 season. By then Josh will be in his age 30 season, have 1-2 Super Bowl victories under his belt and a nice dome to play in where we never have to have the snow, rain or wind effect our team allowing us to turn our stadium into a track meet where Joshs superlative arm talent creates the home field advantage, not the weather which would hinder us just as much as it would our opponents.
 

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,622
7,849
In the Panderverse
Just watched Kurti Warner suggesting they should ve played in a roofed environment for the best team to win.

As if the weather had favored the Bills' passing offense vs. the Ravens run offense.

Some people still seem to have a problem giving the Bills the credit they deserve.
He was a very good player, but since I consider Warner the second-worst modern-era (post-1960) QB enshrined in Canton (you're still safely in last, Joe Willie Namath), I listened / read the sources. Shame on me for taking the bait.

The logic re: the better team not winning is warped / incongruous, regardless of who was the victor, and KW#13 roundly deserved to be called out on that. As he also deserved to be called out for the home field advantage reward for the higher seed.

Moreover, the reason the Super Bowl is (typically - HH Dome in MN was exception, as was the new Met Life Stadium at the Meadowlands, etc.,) is played in fair weather is:
1) It's intended as a neutral site, although there's a possibility a team could qualify as a true home team.
2) The NFL needs locations with adequate hotels, etc. for media and VIPs, and needs those blocked months / years in advance.
3) The NFL doesn't want to risk weather-related FAA travel shutdowns in northeast / midwestern locations on the cusp of the game. Plane flights, media crew trucks, entertainment stage trucks, etc.
4) Exorbitant ticket pricing, corporate advertiser tickets, and limited participating team ticket allocation means many of the pate foi gras glamour fan Super Bowl clientele don't own Carhart coveralls (or if they do, they don't get mud on them).
5) Completely ignores the obvious fact any participating team would relish the prospect of playing the Super Bowl at home, weather and all.

Not clear to me Warner has a leg to stand on. An ordinary dog owner spends more time outdoors than Warner did in his football career.
 
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SackTastic

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
7,829
1,915
Oh Allen is sticking around, I have little doubt about that. And say for some reason he wouldn't want to, he will still be a Bill for the following 5 seasons after this one.

He has 1 year left on his base rookie deal, the Bills obviously are going to exercise the 5th year team option for 2022 and they then are able to franchise him for the 2023,2024 and 2025 seasons. All of that is completely moot point, it is not going to come down to it.Not only was it reported that the Bills are preparing a massive extension to Josh this summer but you also have Josh saying this on record, to the media.

"My family is forever engraved here, myself included. I don't ever want to leave,I want to play for as long as I can and give back to this community and Bills Mafia"

Josh is going no where. And yes, the Bills should absolutely build a dome. They cannot play at the Ralph much longer, the league will force their hand because of $$ and ass clowns like Jerry Jones. And if/WHEN we win the super bowl this year our brand will explode through the roof along with Joshs star shining brighter then anyone's. I think with brand value, naming rights to the NFLs new powerhouse and boasting probably the most exciting dual threat player in the league that with a new domed stadium costing 1.1-1.5 billion preferably in or very close downtown can be planned, designed, approved and then built. A new domed stadium on average takes 18-30 months to be entirely built and completed. AT&T took 26 months to build. Sofi took 4 years but that was also the most expensive and grand stadium built at 5 billion. For a 1.1-1.5 billion new stadium we could see Pegula putting up half a billion of his own money, a few hundred million from the state/county/city and then the rest paid for by the league with their stadium loan program. Even though it is technically a loan I believe the payback terms are very generous and that future revenue is used toward it making it very beneficial for the owner(s).

I know there are still old head Bills fans who still believe in no dome, that football was "meant" to be played in the elements and that if we build a dome it takes away our "advantage" against Miami. Even though we have a high octane passing offense that thrives in clear weather and NO wind, that a majority of our players either come from or played college in states/cities that are warmed weather with zero snow and that there are 4 months in a NFL seasob and that there is far more weeks in that 17 week period that will not have snow compared to ones that would. Only years that have Miami coming here in late Novemver/December would have that be a possibility and if that is one of the main reasons for arguing against a dome that is just silly. I for one, after reaching my 30s have no desire to go to the games anymore as it is just too draining. In my teens and early/mid 20s I loved it getting f***ed up with keg stands, shots,playing in the snow(heh) starting the festivities at 7-8 am but now I just can't handle it, especially having to sit in the elements on a cold and super uncomfortable bench as our "seats".

I want a dome that has brand new and top of the line food, activities, bathrooms etc not the Ralph which is old, dirty and falling apart. Hopefully we can start the planning/building the stadium by 2024 and have it ready for the 2026 season. By then Josh will be in his age 30 season, have 1-2 Super Bowl victories under his belt and a nice dome to play in where we never have to have the snow, rain or wind effect our team allowing us to turn our stadium into a track meet where Joshs superlative arm talent creates the home field advantage, not the weather which would hinder us just as much as it would our opponents.

1. Allegiant Stadium in Vegas was $2B. You aren't getting a dome for 1.1 - 1.5.
2. Pegulas don't have $500M just laying around. They would have to sell off a substantial chunk of oil and gas related holdings which are severely depressed in value right now.
3. The NFL G-4 loan program is limited in size, and essentially requires a team to sell PSLs to repay it over 15 years.

Looking at Allegiant as a recent close comparable ( because SoFi is a crazy different scenario ):

Raiders : $1.1B
$650M loan
$200M NFL G-4
$300M in PSLs
Naming rights, sponsorships, etc

Clark County
$750M in bonds, secured by a new hotel room tax

Even though Clark County owns the stadium, they cannot charge the Raiders any rent, nor receive any direct revenue share, because the bonds would lose their tax exempt status. This however honestly is a good deal for Clark County, because the hotel tax is paid by visitors, and they collect around 8-ish% in sales tax. They are absolutely covering their costs for the bond sales / tax administration, and will come out ahead in the long term on sales tax receipts. I don't think I need to go into details about why that financing structure wouldn't work here.

Here, NYS would have to be the source of the majority of public money, and honestly they would be on the hook for probably 75% of the total construction costs, unless the oil and gas markets dramatically recover, and Pegula was able to generate enough cash from selling something he owns there. That doesn't look likely for at least 3 years at best, and even then I don't think Pegula would do that, since over the long term the non-sports assets will have a better ROI.
 

SackTastic

Registered User
Mar 25, 2011
7,829
1,915
He was a very good player, but since I consider Warner the second-worst modern-era (post-1960) QB enshrined in Canton (you're still safely in last, Joe Willie Namath), I listened / read the sources. Shame on me for taking the bait.

The logic re: the better team not winning is warped / incongruous, regardless of who was the victor, and KW#13 roundly deserved to be called out on that. As he also deserved to be called out for the home field advantage reward for the higher seed.

Moreover, the reason the Super Bowl is (typically - HH Dome in MN was exception, as was the new Met Life Stadium at the Meadowlands, etc.,) is played in fair weather is:
1) It's intended as a neutral site, although there's a possibility a team could qualify as a true home team.
2) The NFL needs locations with adequate hotels, etc. for media and VIPs, and needs those blocked months / years in advance.
3) The NFL doesn't want to risk weather-related FAA travel shutdowns in northeast / midwestern locations on the cusp of the game. Plane flights, media crew trucks, entertainment stage trucks, etc.
4) Exorbitant ticket pricing, corporate advertiser tickets, and limited participating team ticket allocation means many of the pate foi gras glamour fan Super Bowl clientele don't own Carhart coveralls (or if they do, they don't get mud on them).
5) Completely ignores the obvious fact any participating team would relish the prospect of playing the Super Bowl at home, weather and all.

Not clear to me Warner has a leg to stand on. An ordinary dog owner spends more time outdoors than Warner did in his football career.

They were screwed by that after the game at MetLife ; a storm dropped after the game was over and something like 30% of all flights out of NY/NJ were canceled. They might risk it again there only because of where it is, but highly doubtful.
 

Rowley Birkin

Registered User
Oct 31, 2004
10,529
3,737
1. Allegiant Stadium in Vegas was $2B. You aren't getting a dome for 1.1 - 1.5.
2. Pegulas don't have $500M just laying around. They would have to sell off a substantial chunk of oil and gas related holdings which are severely depressed in value right now.
3. The NFL G-4 loan program is limited in size, and essentially requires a team to sell PSLs to repay it over 15 years.

Looking at Allegiant as a recent close comparable ( because SoFi is a crazy different scenario ):

Raiders : $1.1B
$650M loan
$200M NFL G-4
$300M in PSLs
Naming rights, sponsorships, etc

Clark County
$750M in bonds, secured by a new hotel room tax

Even though Clark County owns the stadium, they cannot charge the Raiders any rent, nor receive any direct revenue share, because the bonds would lose their tax exempt status. This however honestly is a good deal for Clark County, because the hotel tax is paid by visitors, and they collect around 8-ish% in sales tax. They are absolutely covering their costs for the bond sales / tax administration, and will come out ahead in the long term on sales tax receipts. I don't think I need to go into details about why that financing structure wouldn't work here.

Here, NYS would have to be the source of the majority of public money, and honestly they would be on the hook for probably 75% of the total construction costs, unless the oil and gas markets dramatically recover, and Pegula was able to generate enough cash from selling something he owns there. That doesn't look likely for at least 3 years at best, and even then I don't think Pegula would do that, since over the long term the non-sports assets will have a better ROI.

Great post.

I guess this explains why it hasn't been done already. But LCN is right - it would be the best move for the franchise if they did it.
 

Tsujimoto

Registered User
Jan 23, 2006
2,692
1,522
How much would it cost to have Kohler hang one of those retractable awnings over The Ralph?
 

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