Adding an extra attacker in late game situations or not?

[PROGFAN66]

If you were a coach would you add an extra attacker when trailing late in the game or stay with the 5 position attack? Obviously if you add an extra attacker you are vulnerable to an empty net goal.

Would you just go with a 4 forward & 1 defensemen attack or even 5 forwards or just go with the 6-attacker approach when you are trailing late in the game?

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[Gjman2019]

I'm all for pulling the goalie but not with too much time left.....The 1 minute mark is perfect to do it (was always that way when i grew up watching hockey)......If you pull him too early like some teams do today you do the other team a favor......

I would be open to the idea of playing 5 forwards and one defenseman....

 

[bellringer77]

This has been my biggest pet peeve lately. I get it with about a minute. I talked about it in a playoff thread and i actually did some minor digging.

There is on average 31.5 shots on goal per team. Round that down to 30. That’s a shot every 2 minutes. That means on average if your goalie is pulled more then 1:59 your letting up a goal. And that is not counting players being way more willing to shoot the puck outside the offensive zone. To me the risk of letting up a goal isn’t worth pulling the goalie unless your in the zone with control. I can probably count on my hand or hands how many times I’ve seen a pulled goalie work

 

[Stive Morgan]

Depends if you have possession in their zone or not, but typically 60-90 seconds remaining is my preferred spot. 2 minutes if you've gotta get 2.

 

[Big Empty]

Depends if you have possession in their zone or not, but typically 60-90 seconds remaining is my preferred spot. 2 minutes if you've gotta get 2.

Chiarot bar down clapper

 

[MadLuke]

Because most study seem to show the clear thing to do is what team started to do after Roy did it, going early without a goaltender, I would do the same, I would like to think I would do it more and go for trying to win instead of the fear of embarrassment but I imagine I would like 100% of the nhl coach ever did, not do it 100% "right".

 

[HaNotsri]

If you're down by 3 goals I think you should pull the goalie if you get a powerplay with 6-8 minutes left or less. Provided it's a must win game. An early pull can sometimes surprise the opposition.

If it's a one goal game 60-120 seconds.

 

[VanillaCoke]

This strategy is overused and underutilized imo.

 

[Grifter3511]

This has been my biggest pet peeve lately. I get it with about a minute. I talked about it in a playoff thread and i actually did some minor digging.

There is on average 31.5 shots on goal per team. Round that down to 30. That’s a shot every 2 minutes. That means on average if your goalie is pulled more then 1:59 your letting up a goal. And that is not counting players being way more willing to shoot the puck outside the offensive zone. To me the risk of letting up a goal isn’t worth pulling the goalie unless your in the zone with control. I can probably count on my hand or hands how many times I’ve seen a pulled goalie work

I'm not saying I disagree here, but to play devil's advocate....there's an average of 31.5 shots when the game is played 5 skaters a side per team. Do you think a team of 5 skaters would still get 30 shots if the other team had an extra man on the ice the entire game?

Obviously there is an empty net to shoot at so no team would do it for the whole game, but ideally if a team is getting a shot every 2 minutes, once you outnumber your opposition in skaters you should be able to increase the amount of time between their shots, at least somewhat.

For my money, anything within the final 2 minutes once you have established offensive zone possession is fine.

 

[jetsforever]

Considering every NHL coach does it, it's probably a decent strategy.

 

[MadLuke]

I can probably count on my hand or hands how many times I’ve seen a pulled goalie work

in the last full season, 185 goals where scored with the team having there goaltender pulled in 1375 minutes of ice time versus 423 goal again, that about 1 every day of the season.

So by minutes that season team that removed their goaltender scored 0.135 goals for versus 0.308 goal against.

Some of those will be when they pull the goaltender on a penalty call I imagine, making the goal against number look lower than they are in the end of game scenario if that represent a relevant amount of minutes.

 

[txpd]

This has been my biggest pet peeve lately. I get it with about a minute. I talked about it in a playoff thread and i actually did some minor digging.

There is on average 31.5 shots on goal per team. Round that down to 30. That’s a shot every 2 minutes. That means on average if your goalie is pulled more then 1:59 your letting up a goal. And that is not counting players being way more willing to shoot the puck outside the offensive zone. To me the risk of letting up a goal isn’t worth pulling the goalie unless your in the zone with control. I can probably count on my hand or hands how many times I’ve seen a pulled goalie work

Thats not accurate. The way teams play 6 on 5 its like a power play. Zone time can be ridiculous. Teams pull the goalie down by 2 with 4 mins to go and never give up a possession that is more than a clear or an icing. Take your 30 shot 60 minute game and make a 60 min 5 on 4 and see what the numbers look like then.

 

[MadLuke]

Do you think a team of 5 skaters would still get 30 shots if the other team had an extra man on the ice the entire game?

Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Only one team gave 30 shot or more by 60 without their goaltender, it was around .31 shot by minutes they gave in 2018-2019.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Personally I think there’s overlooked value in surprise-pulling your goalie during PPs earlier in the game.

It’s one of those things that sounds ridiculous until you consider what a 6-on-4 looks like and the sheer psychological effect when a PK unit isn’t sure whether to expect it or not. I don’t see any advantage in waiting till you’ve almost lost the game to try it.

 

[T REX]

Thats not accurate. The way teams play 6 on 5 its like a power play. Zone time can be ridiculous. Teams pull the goalie down by 2 with 4 mins to go and never give up a possession that is more than a clear or an icing. Take your 30 shot 60 minute game and make a 60 min 5 on 4 and see what the numbers look like then.

This is a good post. Most teams will play defensively and clog the middle for blocked shots.

Or they'll ice the puck.

I have no problem pulling the goalie at the 2 min mark and play 6 on 5.

Again, most teams sit back and let you cycle.

 

[MadLuke]

Personally I think there’s overlooked value in surprise-pulling your goalie during PPs earlier in the game.

When you control the puck on the pp with a 3 or more goal deficit and 12 minute to play in the third, that something I feel the math would say team should do more.

 

[jcs0218]

This has been my biggest pet peeve lately. I get it with about a minute. I talked about it in a playoff thread and i actually did some minor digging.

There is on average 31.5 shots on goal per team. Round that down to 30. That’s a shot every 2 minutes. That means on average if your goalie is pulled more then 1:59 your letting up a goal. And that is not counting players being way more willing to shoot the puck outside the offensive zone. To me the risk of letting up a goal isn’t worth pulling the goalie unless your in the zone with control. I can probably count on my hand or hands how many times I’ve seen a pulled goalie work

That is shots per minute of 5-on-5 play. The other team probably isn't getting a shot on net every 1:59 if you are 6-on-5.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Chiarot bar down clapper

 

[Osakahaus]

If you were a coach would you add an extra attacker when trailing late in the game or stay with the 5 position attack? Obviously if you add an extra attacker you are vulnerable to an empty net goal.

Would you just go with a 4 forward & 1 defensemen attack or even 5 forwards or just go with the 6-attacker approach when you are trailing late in the game?

I'd rather just keep at least one defenseman on the ice when need be. The bruins did that tactic where they only had one or even no defenseman play, and it burned them hard.

 

[jcs0218]

If I have possession of the puck, I am pulling the goalie with 3-4 minutes left.

How many times have we seen a team wait until the "standard" 1-2 minute mark, but then never get the puck? This results in them not pulling the goalie or only pulling him with like 30 seconds to go.

If you have possession of the puck and it is 3-4 minutes, then I think you pull your goalie right then and there.

Who cares if you lose by 2 rather than 1?

 

[jcs0218]

Personally I think there’s overlooked value in surprise-pulling your goalie during PPs earlier in the game.

It’s one of those things that sounds ridiculous until you consider what a 6-on-4 looks like and the sheer psychological effect when a PK unit isn’t sure whether to expect it or not. I don’t see any advantage in waiting till you’ve almost lost the game to try it.

Teams don't do this enough.

I remember the Islanders being down by 1 to Tampa Bay in one of the games they lost and they got a PP with around 5-6 minutes left.

The Islanders were having trouble scoring, so I would have created a 6-on-4 situation right at that moment. It was going to be their best chance to tie the game.

 

[Mikeshane]

I like the idea of pulling the goalie for the last 2 shifts of your top line. So with 3 minutes left pull the goalie for their shift, then if there is a stoppage around the 2 minute mark put him back in for the 2nd line shift, then pull him again at 1 minute for another 1st line shift.

I don't trust a lot of 2nd or lower lines to be good enough to maintain puck control.

 

[Lolonegoal]

This has been my biggest pet peeve lately. I get it with about a minute. I talked about it in a playoff thread and i actually did some minor digging.

There is on average 31.5 shots on goal per team. Round that down to 30. That’s a shot every 2 minutes. That means on average if your goalie is pulled more then 1:59 your letting up a goal. And that is not counting players being way more willing to shoot the puck outside the offensive zone. To me the risk of letting up a goal isn’t worth pulling the goalie unless your in the zone with control.

Are you forgetting the fact that the teams is now playing with a man advantage? Why are you using 5-on-5 shot stats? How much shots does a team average per penalty kill?

Also you think that the team should wait to pull the goalie because a team averages a shot against every 2 minutes. So in that extra minute you waited, by the stats you're quoting, there's a 50% chance you'll actually get a shot, and on that coin flip odd you get a shot you only have a league average 9.46% chance you will score.

You may think it's risky to pull a goalie early but the real risk is being passive and not seizing the opportunity.

Let's look at some other numbers:

NHL average powerplay percentage (2 mins or less man advantage) = slightly above 20%

NHL average team goals per game = 2.92 or one every 20.41 mins per team

Odds of scoring after pulling a goalie (from 2016) = 10%

Odds of scoring on the team who has pulled the goalie = 24% (wish I could find a goal per minute stat but I couldn't)

I can probably count on my hand or hands how many times I’ve seen a pulled goalie work

Are you serious? You must haven't watched much hockey in your life.

 

[DowJones]

There is stats for this one and it says pretty clear that it is better to pull the Goalie, and that it should be done earlier than most coaches do.

Statistics Say This Is When NHL Teams Should Pull the Goalie - Sportscasting | Pure Sports

 

[Langdon Alger]

Pulling the goalie never works.

Except when it does.