Adam Oates opines; J. Thornton vs. J. Jacobs

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Sinurgy

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Finally, I'm most disillusioned with fans blindly supporting the owners. Us stupid fans don't realize how greedy the owners are being as well. They won't lower ticket prices because they're a function of supply and demand for the most part...not player salaries.

I don't think it's accurate to say fans are "blindly" supporting the owners anymore than some are "blindly" supporting the players. As I posted a few weeks ago, I believe the majority of people support the owners not because they think the owners are righteous, care for the game or care for the fans but because they believe the state of the game will be better if the owners get their way regardless of the motives!
 

JimEIV

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Ok, now who is going to tell me Jagr, Bure, or Federov don't. float.


That is probably about 70 million over the last 3 years.
 

GirardIsStupid

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Mr Bugg said:
Try telling Howe, Chelios, Messier or Stevens that they're allowed to take a night off every once in a while even when perfectly healthy or absent of emotional burden because it's a tough way to make a living. They'd laugh in your face.

:lol:

Right, because all hockey players are perfectly healthy and are relatively stress-free during the grind of an arduous season??? 3 games in 4 nights, no problem whatsoever! Sacrificing time with your kids and wife, easy stuff. You can do that and still play at a high level. right? I'm sure you have such experience that you can relate to. Don Cherry, Howe, Chelios, Messier and Stevens would probably be the ones laughing at you.

IMO, there's nothing worng in demanding the players' best efforts every night since they're in the pros...but to expect it regardless of their physical and mental condition is ridiculous. if there was little burden from an 82-game schedule, then I'd also expect it. But I clearly don't think thats the case.
 
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GirardIsStupid

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Sammy said:
All sorts of owners make mistakes,as do players.For Sakic to critcize Jacobs in the context of the Avs getting Bourque is idiotic, given that Jacobs was doing Ray a favor.

Why is it idiotic? Jacobs took a personal shot at all star players...a group that includes Sakic, Stevens, Niedermayer, Brodeur, and Iginla. He also wants to turn back the clock to a time where the players are treated like animals: "Not producing like you should, bad boy, go to the minors even though you lead my team to the Stanley Cup finals." No loyalty there!

So, it was just for Sakic to take a shot at Jacobs. Let me spell this out for you as well: "You couldn'tget Ray his Cup because of your cheap, low-balling tactics, so we got it for him here in Denver where our owner is surper."

It was Jacobs with the idiotic comments who didn't help end this lockout any time soon and raised the ire of the superstar players of the NHLPA. Now they're even more motivated to endure this lockout. Why would they want to crawl back to someone who thinks like a dinosaur!?
 

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I just want to know, who is Joe Thornton to claim players don't take nights off? All he did last year when he was on the ice was wait for Murray to get open and pass to him, while Knuble did all the work in the corners for that line.
 

GirardIsStupid

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acr said:
I just want to know, who is Joe Thornton to claim players don't take nights off? All he did last year when he was on the ice was wait for Murray to get open and pass to him, while Knuble did all the work in the corners for that line.

Some players no doubt float out there. Its wrong for Thornton to assume some guys don't take nights off. But the majority don't.
 

eye

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Hockey playoff performances, focus, discipline and intensity go up more than in any other sport so I would have to agree with Jacobs.

Why is it that most if not all retired players can see that Cost Certainty isn't such a bad thing. Well said by Oates. Let's hope more players listen to him and speak up.
 

Winger98

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Sinurgy said:
I don't think it's accurate to say fans are "blindly" supporting the owners anymore than some are "blindly" supporting the players. As I posted a few weeks ago, I believe the majority of people support the owners not because they think the owners are righteous, care for the game or care for the fans but because they believe the state of the game will be better if the owners get their way regardless of the motives!


I would agree with that, but I think it's misplaced. I honestly don't think anything from this CBA will lead to a better on ice product, regardless of whatever potential distribution of talant may result from it or whatever else the owners/players are trumpeting with their respective schemes.

The only way for the product to get better is for the refs to call the game and a few changes undone, imo (move the lines back, limit goalie size, touch-up offsides). Basically, putting the game back to where it was ten years ago before the league tried to fix something that was working pretty well at the time.
 

Sammy*

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jericholic19 said:
Why is it idiotic? Jacobs took a personal shot at all star players...a group that includes Sakic, Stevens, Niedermayer, Brodeur, and Iginla. He also wants to turn back the clock to a time where the players are treated like animals: "Not producing like you should, bad boy, go to the minors even though you lead my team to the Stanley Cup finals." No loyalty there!

So, it was just for Sakic to take a shot at Jacobs. Let me spell this out for you as well: "You couldn'tget Ray his Cup because of your cheap, low-balling tactics, so we got it for him here in Denver where our owner is surper."

It was Jacobs with the idiotic comments who didn't help end this lockout any time soon and raised the ire of the superstar players of the NHLPA. Now they're even more motivated to endure this lockout. Why would they want to crawl back to someone who thinks like a dinosaur!?
Whatever. You can call Jacobs an idiot for not giving players all the $$ they want. I can call Sakic a whining a@@!! for being so stupid as to criticize an owner for doing a player a favor.
Now who is the idiot?
 

Bruwinz37

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jericholic19 said:
Why is it idiotic? Jacobs took a personal shot at all star players...a group that includes Sakic, Stevens, Niedermayer, Brodeur, and Iginla. He also wants to turn back the clock to a time where the players are treated like animals: "Not producing like you should, bad boy, go to the minors even though you lead my team to the Stanley Cup finals." No loyalty there!

So, it was just for Sakic to take a shot at Jacobs. Let me spell this out for you as well: "You couldn'tget Ray his Cup because of your cheap, low-balling tactics, so we got it for him here in Denver where our owner is surper."

It was Jacobs with the idiotic comments who didn't help end this lockout any time soon and raised the ire of the superstar players of the NHLPA. Now they're even more motivated to endure this lockout. Why would they want to crawl back to someone who thinks like a dinosaur!?

I think you are taking his comments to the extreme just so you can fly off a handle about all this. I dont think he criticized EVERY player, his comments (I am quite sure) were directed at a some of the NHL stars who arent earning their money. Guys like Lidstrom, Iginla, and Sakic were not his targets. He was more talking of the Jagr's, Bure's, Nedveds, Lecalvier, Thornton, Guerin types.

Sakic's shot at Jacobs was shortsighted and pretty stupid. Sinden helped Ray out by trading him to a contender that would give Ray his shot. Ray had a couple shots with Boston and at the time he was traded Boston was hitting a bad skid. 30 years of making the playoffs and they finally hit a real low point and Boston management obliged Bourque because of the respect they had for him.
 

GirardIsStupid

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Jacobs did Ray a favour? I don't think so at all. He did what was just considering how loyal Ray was to the Bruins. Bourque easily could have signed for more money elsewhere and won his cup earlier. Instead, he decided to stick around with the penny-fickle Sinden and Jacobs who wouldn't do what was necessary to help Ray win the Stanley Cup. Ray also helped to put a cap on all Bruins salaries. No other Bruin could make more money than him...thus limiting the salaries of others like Cam Neely. Trading Ray was the right thing to do considering they had relied on him for so long. Indeed, it would have been disgusting if Sinden and Jacobs didn't honour Ray's trade request.

Fly off a handle? Jacobs mentioned "there's a whole body of thinking by a lot of people within the sport who feel the high-priced players don't necessarily play every day." Seems to me that he's fostering a generalization of all star players as being lazy. Sakic is a high priced player...as is Lidstrom. If he meant Bure and some other select few, why didn't he say that "some high-priced players" don't play hard everyday. However, I wouldn't be surprised if that was what he meant to say. But why leave room for confusion and for hard-working star players to take it in the wrong context.

But, my biggest beef lies with his suggestion that "there should be a way of perhaps sending them to a Providence for a couple of games or so until they build back the energy and the desire to play." Now he doesn't take credit for these ideas but he definitely appears to be advocating it. It's such a backward way of thinking...ruling over the players with an iron fist. And I'm clearly not the only one who feels the same as Bob McKenzie also believes Jacobs should have shut his mouth. Jacobs probably won't even realize the full extent of the consequences of his stupid comments until Thornton asks to be traded...which seems to be inevitable to me.

In the end, I'm not going to even bother writing another post in this thread since it seems to me some of you just dislike the players only and will stand up for the owners at all costs (for whatever reason it may be...jealousy???). Sakic's a great guy and one of the most likeable athletes you'll ever come to know. He's also a quite person and rarley speaks whats on his mind. He doesn't have a history of being a loud mouth. Yet, some are calling him names because they disagree with one of his comments. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing, but some have clearly overreacted and are "flying off the handle" in response to his comments.
 

hfboardsuser

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Right, because all hockey players are perfectly healthy and are relatively stress-free during the grind of an arduous season??? 3 games in 4 nights, no problem whatsoever! Sacrificing time with your kids and wife, easy stuff. You can do that and still play at a high level. right? I'm sure you have such experience that you can relate to. Don Cherry, Howe, Chelios, Messier and Stevens would probably be the ones laughing at you.

IMO, there's nothing worng in demanding the players' best efforts every night since they're in the pros...but to expect it regardless of their physical and mental condition is ridiculous. if there was little burden from an 82-game schedule, then I'd also expect it. But I clearly don't think thats the case.

:dunno: Go back and read my post slower. Slowwwwer.
 

PecaFan

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Interesting. Jacobs says "some players don't play every day" and Thornton immediately thinks he's the one being talked about, and is insulted.

A tad over-defensive, doncha think? Feeling a touch guilty there, Joe?

Oates, like pretty much every ex-player, is spot on.
 

Beukeboom Fan

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Bruwinz20 said:
Love him or hate him Jacobs is right. Too many superstars on too many nights just float. No one expects hat tricks every night, but a consistent effort would be nice.

I think that a big part of this is the league's fault. After they proved they could do it for the Olympics, they shortened the schedule to an insane level IMO. Hawks played 16 games in a calendar month! Included was a couple of stretches of 4 games in 7 nights. I would suggest that NHL'ers are in better shape than they'd ever been, but there's a limit to what their bodies can handle.
 

Bruwinz37

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Jacobs did Ray a favour? I don't think so at all. He did what was just considering how loyal Ray was to the Bruins. Bourque easily could have signed for more money elsewhere and won his cup earlier. Instead, he decided to stick around with the penny-fickle Sinden and Jacobs who wouldn't do what was necessary to help Ray win the Stanley Cup. Ray also helped to put a cap on all Bruins salaries. No other Bruin could make more money than him...thus limiting the salaries of others like Cam Neely. Trading Ray was the right thing to do considering they had relied on him for so long. Indeed, it would have been disgusting if Sinden and Jacobs didn't honour Ray's trade request.

You are misinformed on so many levels it is sad. Bourque was always #1 or #2 paid at his position when signed his contracts. 6 years ago he was making over 5 million dollars a year. The Bruins NEVER shortchanged Ray Bourque. Yes, no player on the Bruins was paid more than Ray, but no one should have been. Cam Neely was never short changed either. He was paid very well. This whole "Bruins are cheap" is so overblown it is ridiculous. Its basically a cop out for people like you who dont like to think.

Ray Bourque played for many great Bruins teams. A couple of them ran into dynasty type teams that cost him the cup. Any time the Bruins were close management made moves to improve the team. Finally as the Bruins were ending a downslide after 30 years of making the playoffs and Ray was on his last year or so of playing management offered to trade him to a contender. Ray never asked for a trade it was offered to him. Management did him a favor and if you ask Ray that to this day he will tell you as much.
 

Bruwinz37

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Beukeboom Fan said:
I think that a big part of this is the league's fault. After they proved they could do it for the Olympics, they shortened the schedule to an insane level IMO. Hawks played 16 games in a calendar month! Included was a couple of stretches of 4 games in 7 nights. I would suggest that NHL'ers are in better shape than they'd ever been, but there's a limit to what their bodies can handle.

I agree, but compare this to the 80s. There are so few rivalries nowadays that I doubt the players take the same toll on their bodies as players of the past did. I cant compare the Bruins playing Atlanta on Thursday night then having Ottawa on Saturday and Florida on Sunday to the 1988 Bruins playing Montreal home and home Saturday and Sunday. The games arent battles like they used to be.

I agree that the schedule needs to be revamped a bit, but it is a cop out for guys like Yashin, Jagr, Bure, and others who dont care more than 3/4 of their shifts in 3/4 of their games.
 

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Bruwinz20 said:
I agree, but compare this to the 80s. There are so few rivalries nowadays that I doubt the players take the same toll on their bodies as players of the past did. I cant compare the Bruins playing Atlanta on Thursday night then having Ottawa on Saturday and Florida on Sunday to the 1988 Bruins playing Montreal home and home Saturday and Sunday. The games arent battles like they used to be.

I agree that the schedule needs to be revamped a bit, but it is a cop out for guys like Yashin, Jagr, Bure, and others who dont care more than 3/4 of their shifts in 3/4 of their games.

I think that you are right, but I think that Jacobs is SERIOUSLY wrong for putting all of the elite level players in the same bucket. If Jagr or Yashin is tanking during games - then say that. Don't try and put all highly paid players in the same bucket, that's just wrong.

That's me saying that owners are hypocritical, ignorant, stupid and out to screw the fans. It's true of Bill Wirtz, so I can say that, but it's not fair to include (intentionally or not) all of the other owners with shyte for brains $ Bill.
 

thinkwild

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Imagine any fan supporting Jacobs. Sheesh. He is the problem, this billionaire by gouging. As if he could speak for the fans best interests. Poor Boston will end up with the team he deserves.
 

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thinkwild said:
Imagine any fan supporting Jacobs. Sheesh. He is the problem, this billionaire by gouging. As if he could speak for the fans best interests. Poor Boston will end up with the team he deserves.

Jacobs the poster boy for fiscal sanity after signing Martin Lapointe??? :)

If I was Boston fan I would be applying for a rebate on my past season's tickets.

An incredibly stupid remark. Supposedly the NHL markets the game based upon the play of it superstars - great move Jeremy. If any remarks deserved a fine those would be it since Jacobs who has managed to bring the league into disrepute.

As Nick Kypreos has noted, it is likely that Thornton has played his last game in Boston. How about a a pair of Sedins for an ace like Thornton? :lol
 

Blind Gardien

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Bruwinz20 said:
John with all due respect that is nonsense. Superstars float ALL THE TIME in this league. Jagr? Yashin? I watch Joe Thornton's whole career and sometimes it looks like he is half asleep. There is a HUGE difference when this guy has his motor going than when it isnt.
I dunno, I think I float sometimes too. I mean, one day I'll come in here to work and do some great stuff, and the next day, well... HFBoards is my biggest accomplishment for the day. I don't really see why hockey players should be expected to be any different than the rest of us in that respect. But their overall impact to the team over the course of the season has to be there, or else they aren't doing their job.

The guys who do come along and work like a buzzsaw every second of every shift will always be there too, and they'll always get an extra dose of respect because of it. And of course, a higher percentage of those hard-working types will make it up through the ranks to even attain NHL employment, the way things are today. But heck, re-watching the cruise control hockey of the 70's and 80's during the lockout, a lot of great players then knew when to "float" and when to crank it up. Today, the coaching staff demands such short fast hard bursts of energy all the time, I'm not sure if "floating" once in a while isn't better for the game? :dunno:
 

Bruwinz37

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I dunno, I think I float sometimes too. I mean, one day I'll come in here to work and do some great stuff, and the next day, well... HFBoards is my biggest accomplishment for the day. I don't really see why hockey players should be expected to be any different than the rest of us in that respect. But their overall impact to the team over the course of the season has to be there, or else they aren't doing their job.

And what if your boss criticized you on that? Would you mouth off back to him especially if he was paying you a top notch salary for your field?

Ok...back to work for me.
 
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