To me Oates deserves to get in and Turgeon will need to buy a ticket but what does draft position have to do with anything?
If we used that logic Luc Robitalle would be the best LW ever.
To me Oates deserves to get in and Turgeon will need to buy a ticket but what does draft position have to do with anything?
If we used that logic Luc Robitalle would be the best LW ever.
revolverjgw
Registered User
It's an interesting bit of trivia but I don't think draft position is given any importance in these arguments, whether by us hfboarders or the
Brett Hull, Cam Neely and Peter Bondra were good players without oates, but they all produced thier highest offensive peak with him. 1998 is the only season bondra was top 15 in points and he had the best playoff run of his career. 1994 was the only year neely came remotely close to finishing top 3 in points per game. Brett Hull says himself that his career went downhill as soon as oates was traded.
Oates made Chris Simon a 30-goal scorer in the dead puck era. Just let that one sink in for a minute.
He has the numbers, but while I don't think he was perceived as a jerk or actively disliked, per se, he also didn't play league politics very deftly and was not really a member of the old boys club upon his retirement. He had already started up the Old Time Hockey attire business before he left the league as a player. Kept to the margins. Politics has a great deal to do with perceptions when it comes time to consider various stars at HOF consideration time. Oates was not a consummate schmoozer.
He has the numbers, but while I don't think he was perceived as a jerk or actively disliked, per se, he also didn't play league politics very deftly and was not really a member of the old boys club upon his retirement. He had already started up the Old Time Hockey attire business before he left the league as a player. Kept to the margins. Politics has a great deal to do with perceptions when it comes time to consider various stars at HOF consideration time. Oates was not a consummate schmoozer.
Also, i think Oates's defense game is underrated. He was completely one dimensional in St. Louis, but he improved as soon as he came to Boston. I remember watching him play the canucks back when i was a kid and he always back checked as soon as the bruins turned the puck over. When he joined the capitals, he was still scoring 70-80 points and playing defense, gilmour on the other hand became a journeyman by that time.
Agreed. I remember an interview back in 2001 (or something) where Calle Johansson said that Oates is the best two-way center he has ever played with, and that he was really impressed by how Oates always worked his butt off to help his teams D-men.
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
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Martin St. Louis wasn't drafted - shockingly - either. I don't think that really matters though.
Curtis Joseph is a guy I don't believe should get in and he was never drafted. I know posters who swear by him though
I think it's safe to say Oates made his wingers better to a greater extent than any center in history.
unknown33
Registered User
- Dec 8, 2009
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What's with those two guy who played together in the '87 Canada Cup?
Two wingers Oates managed to help get 50 goals in 50 games or less. He turned Chris Simon into a 30 goalscorer in the dead puck era. In terms of helping your wingers score goals Oates is the best.
Cory Trevor
Smokes, Let's go
A bump for another year gone past of being disappointed by the selection committee. some day adam, some day.
Oowatanite
88888888888888888888
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
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There are guys who you often here other players mention who should "join them" in the HHOF someday. Yesterday Gilmour made reference in his speech to Pat Burns getting in. Stuff like that is nice, but it is drenched with emotion, maybe even blinded. Burns needs to get to the back of the line in order to get inducted.
But when we say that Oates should someday get in, it is with genuine wisdom. No emotion, just constant shock year after year that this guy gets passed over.
Is it safe to assume Oates is like the Cris Carter (NFL) of the hockey world? A guy with numbers impossible to overlook and his exclusion just impossible to justify. I think so personally
But when we say that Oates should someday get in, it is with genuine wisdom. No emotion, just constant shock year after year that this guy gets passed over.
Is it safe to assume Oates is like the Cris Carter (NFL) of the hockey world? A guy with numbers impossible to overlook and his exclusion just impossible to justify. I think so personally
Off-topic but Carter's numbers are not impossible to overlook - he only once passed 1300 yards playing in a relatively good offensive period. He would be well behind Jerry Rice in the same time frame, obviously, but I'd also take him below Isaac Bruce and Tim Brown, neither of which are in the Hall of Fame (and I don't have much of a problem with their absence either), and only slightly ahead of Henry Ellard. It doesn't help that the recent group of retired WRs (Harrison, Moss, Owens, arguably a few others) are well ahead of him by any metric. Even if you want to induct him he is absolutely not a priority - NFL's restriction of 4 inductees of any kind, considering how many more players and coaches they have and the shorter length of the careers means that there are a lot more legit Hall of Fame candidates who have to wait a long time. Considering the numerous positions in the NFL and the obvious and real need to induct more QBs than other positions and I'd say Carter's absence from the Hall of Fame is very justifiable. Oates' isn't.
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
Yeah, I just don't get it either. Adam Oates is the second-best passer I've ever seen, behind only The Great One. Forsberg was damn close. Larionov. Mario. There are a lot of guys in the conversation. Oates was No. 2 in my book.
BUT, goals are sexy. Assists aren't. That pretty much tells the story, basically.
BUT, goals are sexy. Assists aren't. That pretty much tells the story, basically.
SidGenoMario
Registered User
The Hall is a joke. It's meaningless. I take the collective word of this message board over the word of the actual voters.
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
I am also constantly frustrated when the HHoF announces its inductees and I see Oates passed over. One of the greatest playmakers to ever play the game and he still is waiting for his HHoF nod.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
That's misleading though, because it cuts off anything beyond 10th as though it is worthless. When you put both packages together it is much, much closer than you think.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=937579
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Cory Trevor
Smokes, Let's go
You might be right lol. No offense to Mark Howe or Joe Nieuwendyke but Oats should have made it in before either of those guys. Howe got in because he was very well liked, a solid NHL player, and his last name. Joe the same though was a better player and didn't have the name.
Oates was better than both. I don't get it sometimes how they select these players...
It's been discussed endlessly but Howe certainly deserved to be in and it's hard to buy him getting in because of being well liked or his last name when he had as long a wait as any deserving Hall of Famer I can think of.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
So basically, if Turgeon was:
a) a little bit better offensively
b) moderately better defensively
c) much better at faceoffs
d) not nearly so injury prone
e) not quite as soft
He'd be as good as Oates?
I'm not even that big a fan of Oates; I'd induct both Bure and Lindros before him among recent snubs, but he was definitely better than Turgeon.
