Recalled/Assigned: Adam Lowry sent down to Moose

[Mortimer Snerd]

Because right now he gives us the best chance to win? The difference between him and Hutch is and should be VERY clear to anyone. The difference between him and Pav is he costs far less, has a higher ceiling and doesnt spit every single rebound into the slot.

This is alot like the Lowry move, you sent him down, thats awesome and all but he is still far better then anything you have currently on the roster to take his spot or on the farm.
L
Again I know this isnt "Chevy" logic, but it seems to be what most other teams employ.

How quickly they forget. Hutch was better in his first 6 games than Helle has been in his. He wasn't able to keep it going but neither has Helle. Helle has not been lights out. He has not been a clear upgrade on anyone. He may be the Jets goalie of the future. He may be the saviour. But he hasn't been able to grab the job.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Are we now doing this small sample recency bias thing with Hellebuyck now?

Were we expecting every game to be awesome?

Kid has a 0.924 sv% and 0.667 QS%.

How a player is on average is more important how they have been in the immediate past.

Nope. Not at all. But he hasn't given any reason to keep him with the jets when Pav comes back. He may yet before Pav is back. I'm not saying he has been bad or even that he has been not good. I'm saying he has not looked much different than our other goalies. He has not been the saviour. He has had a couple of good games and a couple of bad games. Just like the others do.

.924 sv%? Aren't you doing a bit of a small sample size thing?

The comment was that there would be a meltdown on this board or words to that effect when/if Helle is sent down when Pav returns. So far he hasn't done anything spectacular enough to justify keeping him. He will get a lot more opportunity before Pav is back. Lets see what he does.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Totally ridiculous what some people are expecting this kid to do. In six games, he already has as many "quality starts" as our other goalies have in twice as many -- and that includes a game that was not a quality start yet he still found a way to win.

I agree, totally ridiculous what people are expecting this kid to do but some how I don't think we mean that the same way. A year ago Hutch was playing better than Helle has so far. I'm all on board for Helle to be our future starter. But this 6 game stint he has not claimed the job. I still hope he does and soon. But if Pav was ready to come back tomorrow I would be neither surprised nor upset if Helle was sent down.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Question: Do we have the worst bottom 6 in the NHL?
Another question: Do we have with the new D pairs, the worst bottom pairing in the NHL?

Well, our 'bottom' pairing is the one in the press box. I doubt they are the worst 7, 8 D in the league. Now if we played them and put Stu and Chiarot in the PB they might be the worst 7, 8 in the league. Hmm, should I use or ? Or maybe this one Yup. That's the one.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The youth movement never should have started. The only rookie we couldn't afford to not have on the Jets was Ehlers, simply because he had to go back to Junior or go overseas if he didn't make the squad. Putting Copp and Petan in as well? Exactly 1 game pro NHL experience between the two of them? Terrible ****ing idea. No idea if it was Chevy's idea or Chipman's, but they need to be flogged for that.

Rookies never have any NHL experience when they play their first game. D'oh!

You may be right about the 'youth movement' but not because of lack of NHL experience. You might be able to make the argument that their lack of AHL experience should have ruled them out but that is a different story.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Back to "Adam Lowry sent down to Moose" topic...

Very surprising, based on last year's play, but not too surprising, considering his play this year. Not sure it was a good idea to try to turn him into the Jets #1 shutdown centre, but c'est la vie.

Good to see he's not moping, and picked up a point tonight.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Rookies never have any NHL experience when they play their first game. D'oh!

You may be right about the 'youth movement' but not because of lack of NHL experience. You might be able to make the argument that their lack of AHL experience should have ruled them out but that is a different story.

The idea is you don't try and insert 3 'babe in the woods' rookies at one time, because **** like this happens. I wanted to say pro experience, but I couldn't remember if Petan had any games with the IceCaps in the last couple of years, and I didn't feel like digging for the information.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Back to "Adam Lowry sent down to Moose" topic...

We've got a "Draft and Develop" thread that the other topics can be discussed in.

 

[ps241]

Burmi is fast and he's an all-world stick handler, but he has a below average shot and is never in the right place at the right time. Not a great play-maker. Kyle Wellwood used to say he was like playing with a butterfly because he never knew where Burmi was going to go next. Hard to read off of/play with.

I'm fine with him on the 3rd line and he's a great option on the PK but our expectations for him should probably end there. Of course, that is just my perception of him based on his usage so far. Drew Stafford looked like waiver wire material until he got to play with Scheifele. Maybe give Burmi 10 games to see what he is with better linemates and if he doesn't improve, at least you know what we have.

Yea Hnidy described Burmi well when he said Alex always seems to make one move too many.

 

[Aavco Cup]

By all accounts he played well 1 assist 4 SOG

 

[AlphaLackey]

Honestly, I can only see good things happening from this. I think the man has all the tools and the right attitude. He was asked to kick his game up a notch and couldn't deliver yet. Every now and then one can get lost in the wilderness. You need an A-B-C plan in many things in life to right the ship. Playing big minutes on the Moose will help there.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Let's not forget Scheif's path to a regular job in the NHL. How many times was he sent back, then he put his head down and worked his butt off to get back again. Even last year, he was weak in the corners, falling all over the place etc.

This year he's a beast and looks like a dominant player out there. He makes all of his team mates look better.

That analogy applies to Lowry and Ehlers as well imo. They will both have bumps in the road, but both will work hard and get stronger as they get older.

 

[CaptainChef]

I agree, totally ridiculous what people are expecting this kid to do but some how I don't think we mean that the same way. A year ago Hutch was playing better than Helle has so far. I'm all on board for Helle to be our future starter. But this 6 game stint he has not claimed the job. I still hope he does and soon. But if Pav was ready to come back tomorrow I would be neither surprised nor upset if Helle was sent down.

And neither would I but for a different reason -- we're going nowhere with this group this year anyway, so worst possible thing we can do for the Jets sake (ala Ladd/Buff trades) is get close to that playoff bubble.

So send him down, not because he isn't good, not because he isn't our goalie of the future (or Comrie?), but because his talent is wasted on this group right now.

Back to Lowry, having had a day to digest the news & reasons for, I'm now very much behind this move. JP on the Big Show this AM was saying he needs to get back to where he is doing stuff instinctively (he's thinking too much hence the delays & the slowness). Makes perfect sense. Not something that will change in a day or two; I see this as a longer term assignment unless he starts clicking there fast

 

[Samcanadian]

Honestly, I can only see good things happening from this. I think the man has all the tools and the right attitude. He was asked to kick his game up a notch and couldn't deliver yet. Every now and then one can get lost in the wilderness. You need an A-B-C plan in many things in life to right the ship. Playing big minutes on the Moose will help there.

If I were in Lowry's shoes, I'd consider the fact that I played great last year and everyone was talking about me and I'd be excited about the future. Now, it's a new season and I'm sucking the hind teat and rather than let me wallow in my own insecurity and befuddlement on why I'm not producing like I did last year, the organization that drafted me immediately sends me down to the minors as a kick in the ass. I realize they're serious about my development and don't want me to get lazy and rather than moping and sucking out like some (See: Morrissey) I go down and play my tail off in my first AHL game, wanting to show that I belong in the NHL.

I love the Jets decision to send Lowry down and I love his reaction. By all accounts we was an animal last night.

 

[Samcanadian]

And neither would I but for a different reason -- we're going nowhere with this group this year anyway, so worst possible thing we can do for the Jets sake (ala Ladd/Buff trades) is get close to that playoff bubble.

So send him down, not because he isn't good, not because he isn't our goalie of the future (or Comrie?), but beca

I don't think you're ever sending a goalie back down to the AHL because his talent is being wasted. I think if Helle continues to play at his ~.930 sv % ways he'll have the starting job here.

 

[veganhunter]

He was never more than a fourth liner the first time around...if that is what they want from him that is acceptable.

Yeah the NHL is just littered with 4th liners that have great possession numbers, play very good D, and have the ability to put up 28 points (19 years old at the time) lol.

He isn't the guy right now he was then but I'm hopeful he cant get back there. because at this point, with our team and management, faint hope is about all I have left.

 

[AlphaLackey]

If I were in Lowry's shoes, I'd consider the fact that I played great last year and everyone was talking about me and I'd be excited about the future. Now, it's a new season and I'm sucking the hind teat and rather than let me wallow in my own insecurity and befuddlement on why I'm not producing like I did last year, the organization that drafted me immediately sends me down to the minors as a kick in the ass. I realize they're serious about my development and don't want me to get lazy and rather than moping and sucking out like some (See: Morrissey) I go down and play my tail off in my first AHL game, wanting to show that I belong in the NHL.

I love the Jets decision to send Lowry down and I love his reaction. By all accounts we was an animal last night.

Absolutely. I really get the idea that Lowry sees this as an opportunity as much as anything else. I was bullish on him and I stand by that assessment. Martin St. Louis cleared waivers three times in his career IIRC.

 

[Samcanadian]

Absolutely. I really get the idea that Lowry sees this as an opportunity as much as anything else. I was bullish on him and I stand by that assessment. Martin St. Louis cleared waivers three times in his career IIRC.

Didn't know that about MSL. That's encouraging.

One thing we can count on with Lowry is his size and his defensive ability. Even if his ceiling is a reliable third line centre, that's quite good enough for me

 

[surixon]

If I were in Lowry's shoes, I'd consider the fact that I played great last year and everyone was talking about me and I'd be excited about the future. Now, it's a new season and I'm sucking the hind teat and rather than let me wallow in my own insecurity and befuddlement on why I'm not producing like I did last year, the organization that drafted me immediately sends me down to the minors as a kick in the ass. I realize they're serious about my development and don't want me to get lazy and rather than moping and sucking out like some (See: Morrissey) I go down and play my tail off in my first AHL game, wanting to show that I belong in the NHL.

I love the Jets decision to send Lowry down and I love his reaction. By all accounts we was an animal last night.

Where the heck is this Morrissey is mopping nonsense coming from? He's played very hard every game I've seen him play and according to people who have seen Moose practices he's practiced very hard.

 

[Samcanadian]

Where the heck is this Morrissey is mopping nonsense coming from? He's played very hard every game I've seen him play and according to people who have seen Moose practices he's practiced very hard.

We're watching two different Morrissey's then. The guy bloops around out there.

 

[Positive]

Burmi is fast and he's an all-world stick handler, but he has a below average shot and is never in the right place at the right time. Not a great play-maker. Kyle Wellwood used to say he was like playing with a butterfly because he never knew where Burmi was going to go next. Hard to read off of/play with.

I'm fine with him on the 3rd line and he's a great option on the PK but our expectations for him should probably end there. Of course, that is just my perception of him based on his usage so far. Drew Stafford looked like waiver wire material until he got to play with Scheifele. Maybe give Burmi 10 games to see what he is with better linemates and if he doesn't improve, at least you know what we have.

I would say he has a quick, first step, tight skating, and great stick-handling, which allows for some nice dangling.

I would also say his top speed is not exceptional; you're not going to see him walk guys/beat them on the outside clean, or down the middle. He doesn't have a particularly quick release, or hard shot, or accurate wrister. His passing is nothing special as well.

But IMHO his biggest flaw is his lack of offensive awareness and vision. His vision seems to be restricted to about an 8 ft radius around him. Not being able to anticipate where his teammates will be and vice-versa. Not putting himself into scoring positions when he doesn't have the puck. Holding onto the puck a bit too long when he does have it. Not only going into open spaces but creating open spaces for teammates.

The 'out of the penalty box' goal vs Toronto was probably the best play I've ever seen him make. But it wasn't the skating, the drop-pass, or the tap in that was impressive about it, it was more the hockey sense. Just knowing what was happening in that 5-second frame of time: being aware of where the puck was going, timing his exit, hearing Wheeler beaver-tail behind him, knowing to drop the puck, slip around the defender, and go to backdoor, stick on the ice; it was all really nice. The elite guys sometimes have this sense, these moments, every game. It's too few and far between for others.

 

[CaptainChef]

I would say he has a quick, first step, tight skating, and great stick-handling, which allows for some nice dangling.

I would also say his top speed is not exceptional; you're not going to see him walk guys/beat them on the outside clean, or down the middle. He doesn't have a particularly quick release, or hard shot, or accurate wrister. His passing is nothing special as well.

But IMHO his biggest flaw is his lack of offensive awareness and vision. His vision seems to be restricted to about an 8 ft radius around him. Not being able to anticipate where his teammates will be and vice-versa. Not putting himself into scoring positions when he doesn't have the puck. Holding onto the puck a bit too long when he does have it. Not only going into open spaces but creating open spaces for teammates.

The 'out of the penalty box' goal vs Toronto was probably the best play I've ever seen him make. But it wasn't the skating, the drop-pass, or the tap in that was impressive about it, it was more the hockey sense. Just knowing what was happening in that 5-second frame of time: being aware of where the puck was going, timing his exit, hearing Wheeler beaver-tail behind him, knowing to drop the puck, slip around the defender, and go to backdoor, stick on the ice; it was all really nice. The elite guys sometimes have this sense, these moments, every game. It's too few and far between for others.

Jets have always lacked those players with elite talent. Now we have that guy & he's been playing on the third line with Thorburn forever.

The other guy with hints of that elite talent (certainly saw it in the Juniors & at the WJT last year) never was allowed to play with anybody but 4th liner & consequently was sent back to the Moose. Hopefully, next time he's given a chance with the Jets, its with real players.

 

[Samcanadian]

The 'out of the penalty box' goal vs Toronto was probably the best play I've ever seen him make. But it wasn't the skating, the drop-pass, or the tap in that was impressive about it, it was more the hockey sense. Just knowing what was happening in that 5-second frame of time: being aware of where the puck was going, timing his exit, hearing Wheeler beaver-tail behind him, knowing to drop the puck, slip around the defender, and go to backdoor, stick on the ice; it was all really nice. The elite guys sometimes have this sense, these moments, every game. It's too few and far between for others.

That entire sequence is something that only a few on our bottom 6 could do like Burmi did. That's what makes me think he's worth keeping around. I wish he'd show more of that, more often.

 

[Samcanadian]

Jets have always lacked those players with elite talent. Now we have that guy & he's been playing on the third line with Thorburn forever.

The other guy with hints of that elite talent (certainly saw it in the Juniors & at the WJT last year) never was allowed to play with anybody but 4th liner & consequently was sent back to the Moose. Hopefully, next time he's given a chance with the Jets, its with real players.

Elite talent doesn't just equal nice stickhandling and fancy passes. It's the ability to blow past guys to the net, to battle in the corners and to be a bulldog in front of the net in addition to the fabled "intangibles".

Guys like Stamkos, Malkin and Crosby can do all of those things and put them together on a night to night basis. I'd argue that Ehlers and Petan don't have those elite level talents. Not yet anyway, that's for sure

 

[Positive]

Jets have always lacked those players with elite talent. Now we have that guy & he's been playing on the third line with Thorburn forever.

The other guy with hints of that elite talent (certainly saw it in the Juniors & at the WJT last year) never was allowed to play with anybody but 4th liner & consequently was sent back to the Moose. Hopefully, next time he's given a chance with the Jets, its with real players.

I think Wheeler is the closest we have to that. When you look at his involvement in that play, and even his involvement in setting up Thorburn the other day; just great situational awareness.