Player Discussion Adam Gaudette, Pt. II

[VanJack]

Lol....when Sutter was acquired from the Pens he was described as a 'foundational player' and a second-line offensive center who could take the pressure off Horvat. Jimbo paid him accordingly. Now between Sutter and Beagle the Canucks have the most overpaid 3-4 centers in the entire NHL.

Fast forward three seasons, it's obvious he's neither 'foundational' or 'offensive'. And if Gaudette surprises and Pettersson adjusts to center faster than expected, then he's the strongest candidate to be dealt before the season is over. But that contract. Yikes!

 

[Luck 6]

I don’t mind overly over paying for centers throughout a re-build. Consider me in the camp who is fine with Sutter; by the time we need that cap space he’ll be long gone, if he can be used to shelter some young players from hard assignments then it’s worth it. And I’m aware of the developmental flaws of being his line mate, but there are certain prospects who we are developing that need to know how to play with a center like that and still be effective. There are enough of them out there after all.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I don’t mind overly over paying for centers throughout a re-build. Consider me in the camp who is fine with Sutter; by the time we need that cap space he’ll be long gone, if he can be used to shelter some young players from hard assignments then it’s worth it. And I’m aware of the developmental flaws of being his line mate, but there are certain prospects who we are developing that need to know how to play with a center like that and still be effective. There are enough of them out there after all.

Just be careful you wont unnecessarily shelter them all the way to Utica, as seems to be the likely case with Gaud this upcoming season.

 

[Hodgy]

It’s amazing that posters continually think that cap space during a rebuild isn’t valuable notwithstanding the fact that teams will trade picks to teams in order to take their bad contracts. Like, literally, cap space equals draft picks if you are not incompetent.

 

[Luck 6]

Just be careful you wont unnecessarily shelter them all the way to Utica, as seems to be the likely case with Gaud this upcoming season.

We always tend to have so many injuries, as do most NHL teams, to the extent of which the team we start the season with will look entirely different near the conclusion. As such it’s important to have quality depth in anticipation of some serious injuries even early on in the season.

We’ll see what happens. I think Gaudette will start in the NHL if he plays like an NHLer, they’ll find a way to ensure there is room for him. And if not, that’s okay. A lot of quality prospects make a name for themselves as injury call ups and just stick after that - That may end up being Gaudettes path.

 

[Cogburn]

Has he thrown the team on his back and dragged us kicking and screaming into a playoff spot yet?

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Has he thrown the team on his back and dragged us kicking and screaming into a playoff spot yet?

The answer is yes, I know a guy who sells BBQs and he tells me Gaud is smacking hot dogs out of Virtanens hands, massaging Boesers wrist after forcing him to take 1000 shots a day, working on the fundamentals of goaltending with Demko and really trying to get Juolevi to bring his compete level up another notch........ it’s been a long summer but Gaud is all over it

 

[DonnyNucker]

It’s amazing that posters continually think that cap space during a rebuild isn’t valuable notwithstanding the fact that teams will trade picks to teams in order to take their bad contracts. Like, literally, cap space equals draft picks if you are not incompetent.

You are assuming that all owners are willing to take on bad contracts. Aqulini disagrees

 

[MS]

You are assuming that all owners are willing to take on bad contracts. Aqulini disagrees

No, he just continues to employ a horrifically incompetent GM who hands them out in spades.

Probably 1/3 of our roster would be negative-value cap dumps if we were trying to move them.

 

[Jack Burton]

You are assuming that all owners are willing to take on bad contracts. Aqulini disagrees

No, Jim Benning disagrees.

Aquaman has no problem waisting money on this team.

 

[DonnyNucker]

No, he just continues to employ a horrifically incompetent GM who hands them out in spades.

Probably 1/3 of our roster would be negative-value cap dumps if we were trying to move them.

You are disagreeing with my comment? Or just decided to respond with a bash management post? I’m not defending Aquilini I’m just stating my opinion.

 

[MS]

You are disagreeing with my comment? Or just decided to respond with a bash management post? I’m not defending Aquilini I’m just stating my opinion.

I'm commenting on the backwardness of an owner who won't take bad contracts back for value but employs a GM who hands out more of those bad untradeable contracts than any other GM in the league.

 

[DonnyNucker]

I'm commenting on the backwardness of an owner who won't take bad contracts back for value but employs a GM who hands out more of those bad untradeable contracts than any other GM in the league.

Oh ok, understood. It’s is strange that he seems to accept disaterous contracts like Loui but the franchise has never considered taking on a bad one for assets. Aquilini has always been shortsighted

 

[Luck 6]

No, he just continues to employ a horrifically incompetent GM who hands them out in spades.

Probably 1/3 of our roster would be negative-value cap dumps if we were trying to move them.

Most teams who employ this strategy will use it once to gain a draft pick, it isn’t as if you can afford to collect bad contracts. I also don’t think we’re in a position to do this as we are hoping for a relatively short window or being out of contention and being relevant again, hence we have some UFA contracts we still need to rid ourselves of that we’re part of the end of the last competitive era. I won’t defend some of those contracts, but I do understand them.

Now, I agree that cap space is still relevant even though we’re in a re-build. But, part of why it is relevant is to somewhat overpay for the right pieces to help supplement the rebuild, and the right pieces to help pull us out of said rebuild.

 

[Cogburn]

The answer is yes, I know a guy who sells BBQs and he tells me Gaud is smacking hot dogs out of Virtanens hands, massaging Boesers wrist after forcing him to take 1000 shots a day, working on the fundamentals of goaltending with Demko and really trying to get Juolevi to bring his compete level up another notch........ it’s been a long summer but Gaud is all over it

This. This is what superstar leaders do.

 

[M2Beezy]

The answer is yes, I know a guy who sells BBQs and he tells me Gaud is smacking hot dogs out of Virtanens hands, massaging Boesers wrist after forcing him to take 1000 shots a day, working on the fundamentals of goaltending with Demko and really trying to get Juolevi to bring his compete level up another notch........ it’s been a long summer but Gaud is all over it

How much crap can you put into ONE post Jan?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Most teams who employ this strategy will use it once to gain a draft pick, it isn’t as if you can afford to collect bad contracts. I also don’t think we’re in a position to do this as we are hoping for a relatively short window or being out of contention and being relevant again, hence we have some UFA contracts we still need to rid ourselves of that we’re part of the end of the last competitive era. I won’t defend some of those contracts, but I do understand them.

Now, I agree that cap space is still relevant even though we’re in a re-build. But, part of why it is relevant is to somewhat overpay for the right pieces to help supplement the rebuild, and the right pieces to help pull us out of said rebuild.

A GM can use the contract dump for a pick strategy more than once. He also doesn't have to restrict himself to acquiring "bad" contracts. They can instead be middling contracts the trading team can no longer afford, a la Ehrhoff. Weaponizing cap space is not limited in the way you describe here.

If the team intends to climb and be relevant in short order, it was probably best not to saddle the club with poor contracts in the first place. There would be no need to get rid of them now.

Paying for the right pieces to supplement the rebuild: Can you describe what this is? Example?

---------------------------------------------

To my mind, Benning's cap work has been atrocious. There's little defense for it. If you can understand the need for poor deals, great, but I think you'll agree that this a subjective take that is not easily shared. For the most part, the media hasn't really been enamoured with Benning's work in this area.

 

[RobertKron]

You are assuming that all owners are willing to take on bad contracts. Aqulini disagrees

Aquilini has, and continues to take on bad contracts.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

I dislike Sutter's presence on the team and agree that he would be a negative influence playing with one of our prospects, but this is pretty disingenuous reasoning.

"Lol... "uses Boeser perfectly" team finishes bottom of the league. Sounds about right."

See what I mean?

I see what you mean so I’ll rephrase, “uses a player “perfectly”? The guy gets 26 pts and the team finishes bottom of the league. One can argue only a small handful of players were used “perfectly”. Sutter certainly not one of them.”

If any prospect is saddled with this guy, I fear for how they develop. For Sutter to be used perfectly would be 4th line minutes IMO.

 

[Luck 6]

A GM can use the contract dump for a pick strategy more than once. He also doesn't have to restrict himself to acquiring "bad" contracts. They can instead be middling contracts the trading team can no longer afford, a la Ehrhoff. Weaponizing cap space is not limited in the way you describe here.

If the team intends to climb and be relevant in short order, it was probably best not to saddle the club with poor contracts in the first place. There would be no need to get rid of them now.

Paying for the right pieces to supplement the rebuild: Can you describe what this is? Example?

---------------------------------------------

To my mind, Benning's cap work has been atrocious. There's little defense for it. If you can understand the need for poor deals, great, but I think you'll agree that this a subjective take that is not easily shared. For the most part, the media hasn't really been enamoured with Benning's work in this area.

I’m not a fan of Bennings cap work, I have been and still remain to be a huge Gillis supporter as he was able to “weaponize” cap space in the manner that you describe. My comments were more focused on taking bad contracts and explaining why I don’t see it as a viable option at this stage in our re-build. But of course, it’s always case by case, and without know what was or is on the table it’s difficult to comment in that regard.

What I mean by the “right” pieces is heavily dependent on the when: good teams come out of a re-build with a good core built through the draft, but they usually also have a few key contributors that were acquired in free agency. This could be overpaying for a top pairing RHD, for example, to “get your guy.” But, again, it’s difficult to know what those right pieces are right now - An example would be Hossa in Chicago.

As it stands right now we have cap space to work with, and I don’t think having a player like Sutter around here for a few years will have a negative effect on what we’re able to do with that cap space. You can make an argument either way, I suppose, and a balance needs to be defined.

 

[F A N]

I’m not a fan of Bennings cap work, I have been and still remain to be a huge Gillis supporter as he was able to “weaponize” cap space in the manner that you describe. My comments were more focused on taking bad contracts and explaining why I don’t see it as a viable option at this stage in our re-build. But of course, it’s always case by case, and without know what was or is on the table it’s difficult to comment in that regard.

What I mean by the “right” pieces is heavily dependent on the when: good teams come out of a re-build with a good core built through the draft, but they usually also have a few key contributors that were acquired in free agency. This could be overpaying for a top pairing RHD, for example, to “get your guy.” But, again, it’s difficult to know what those right pieces are right now - An example would be Hossa in Chicago.

As it stands right now we have cap space to work with, and I don’t think having a player like Sutter around here for a few years will have a negative effect on what we’re able to do with that cap space. You can make an argument either way, I suppose, and a balance needs to be defined.

I am a Gillis supporter as well, but I don't think he ever "weaponized" cap space in the manner described. More appropriately, he tried to leave cap room to acquire players at the start of the season. He basically took on players that he felt could contribute from teams looking to get rid of said contracts. The closest thing to taking on a cap dump was the Booth trade, even then, he was dumping a contract to acquire Booth and dumping a contract in return.

Anyways, I agree with your points. I think the Jets rebuild is one of a kind. Rebuilding teams tend to sign or keep veterans to anchor the team, especially the goaltending position. I have said this before, at this point, the Canucks lack prospects that figure to be William Lockwood types who project to be high end 3rd line guys if all goes well. Obviously, guys like Lind, Gadjovich, Madden may end up being 3rd or 4th line guys, but they aren't projected to play that role.

Nobody mentions this, but Lind, Madden, Lockwood, and Gaudette are all right hand shots. The Canucks have drafted quite a few right handed shot forwards under Benning.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Lol....when Sutter was acquired from the Pens he was described as a 'foundational player' and a second-line offensive center who could take the pressure off Horvat. Jimbo paid him accordingly. Now between Sutter and Beagle the Canucks have the most overpaid 3-4 centers in the entire NHL.

Fast forward three seasons, it's obvious he's neither 'foundational' or 'offensive'. And if Gaudette surprises and Pettersson adjusts to center faster than expected, then he's the strongest candidate to be dealt before the season is over. But that contract. Yikes!

Disagree. He's not foundational, but his contract is "offensive".

Under Benning we have had a lot of ridiculous overpaid contracts. Gudbrandson. Sutter. Gagner. Eriksson. And NTC's. (this is not even close to a complete list ....)

The structure of the Eriksson contract alone is one of the worst albatross' ever burdened on a team.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Disagree. He's not foundational, but his contract is "offensive".

Under Benning we have had a lot of ridiculous overpaid contracts. Gudbrandson. Sutter. Gagner. Eriksson. And NTC's. (this is not even close to a complete list ....)

The structure of the Eriksson contract alone is one of the worst albatross' ever burdened on a team.

Quite the exaggeration. There have been countless contracts worse than Eriksson and sutters. At least they are NHL quality players still

 

[M2Beezy]

Quite the exaggeration. There have been countless contracts worse than Eriksson and sutters. At least they are NHL quality players still

Sutter yes, Eriksson... hopefully nhl quality??

 

[DonnyNucker]

Sutter yes, Eriksson... hopefully nhl quality??

He is still a quality 2way player he just has a brutal contract. If he was making $3MM nobody would mention the guy. I hate him, but it’s true. Over 82 games he had a 37 point pace last year playing with garbage linemates. Solid 3rd line production and he is sound defensively. We just felt charitable and gave him first line $. Never sign big UFAs. Hardly ever works out.