Player Discussion Adam Gaudette - Part III

[Canucks1096]

Why stop at this year? Why not take all the years Sutter has played and match it against all the years Gaudette has played and say Sutter has clearly scored more? It would be true, but it would still be a sample skewed by your cut off points.

I think you would have been better off separating the two totals: regular season and playoffs. Like everyone does. You didn’t do that because you have a vested interest in proving Gaudette is inferior. I get it.

By all means, skew it how you wish. Gaudette is clearly the better offensive player. Removing his PP production and rejigging the season sample to fit your position isn’t going to change anything.

You're making a big fuss about it because it show Sutter has a better ppg with RS and playoffs. Pretend Gaudette ES and playoffs ppg was higher and someone posted it, would you make that big of a fuss? The answer is No, you can called skewed if you wish too but I took every game this year to come up with that nunber. I didn't take some random 20 game sample in the middle of the year. Even if you want it skewed, for it to show Sutter has a higher ppg in that big if sample. It said a lot about Gaudette game considering the fact you don't think Sutter is a good offensive player.

You're taking my post the wrong way. You wrote with Gaudette, we can have 3 scoring lines, he was on pace for 46 points playing on the third line. My post wasn't really meant the to compare two players. I am giving you example of what you're saying Gaudette got 46 points from the 3rd was not accurate at all. You didn't provide any context with his 46 points. Gaudette point production at 5 on 5 It is considered high 4th line center. Gaudette on pace for about 17 ppp this year on the 2nd unit. That point production just wasn't sustainable at all. In the playoff Canucks 17 games without a ppg from the 2nd unit. That is main reason why Gaudette went points

Your assessment was Gaudette is completely off. He is just that good of a player. Another reason why I am focusing 5 on 5 because it is more sustainable. Most 2nd unit pp don't score a lot which those ppp are harder to be sustainable

Pretend if this was Virtanen and not Sutter. The conversation will be probably different

Have a great day. Feel free to be in your Gaudette fantasy world

 

[decma]

As of right now Sutter is actually better 5 on 5 player than Gaudette. Regular season and playoffs.

Sutter 18 five on five points in 59 games. Works out to 25 esp in an 82 game schedule

Gaudette 19 five on five points in 67 games. Works out to 23 esp in an 82 game schedule

Important note, 2 of Gaudette points was on a 6 on 5.

Sutter is definitely better defensively. As of right now Gaudette is only better on the pp and that's it.

Sutter also has tougher matchup, more Dzone starts and Gaudette has better linemates

Gaudette had more games, but Sutter had more ES minutes/game.
In terms of overall ES minutes (reg season and playoffs), they were about the same (726 for Gaudette vs 697 for Sutter), but given that Gaudette had more 6 on 5 minutes, I suspect their 5 on 5 minutes were even closer.

In any case, even if their 5 on 5 scoring was the same this year (RS and playoffs), Gaudette is at the age where some improvement is possible.

On the other hand Sutter is what he is.

His scoring numbers have been bad at all ages and levels. His offensive stats in junior were awful (0.80 ppg in his draft eligible season and only 0.83 for his D+1 season); he only had 18 pts in 36 AHL games, and only has 30 pts per 80 games in 700+ NHL games in a variety of usage and linemate situations.

 

[Fatass]

Hockey God needs to develop a hockey bod. He’s too light in his lower body. If he can do that we should keep him, and he takes over for Sutter as three C after next season. If he can’t get heavier in his bottom, then trade him as sweetener to dump a toxic contract.

 

[sting101]

"sweetener" gets the same reaction as "social distancing" for me

Nobody needs to be moved as a "sweetener"?

Calm the F down and take a breath and realize we exceeded expectations and will have plenty of cap space as long as we don't overpay players for what they did in their primes vs what they are gonna provide going forward.

Everyone is so worried about contending next season yet call half our roster garbage??? And then to top it off were suppose to back up the Brinks truck for a bunch of aging banged up (old in hockey terms) players?

You cant just acquire top6 guys to plunk on a 3rd and 4th line from a bargain cave. You have to groom them. So lets get busy and groom Gaudette Virtanen MacEwen just like we have with Stecher Demko and Motte. Have some patience it's a tough league. Gaudette works as hard as anyone he will will figure it out or play wing or move on if he can't . Kid just came off his ELC.....patience

 

[Grumpy1]

He works his butt off just needs to put some weight on.

 

[Zippgunn]

People defending this guy don't get it; he is simply not big enough to compete in the NHL nor does he bring much to the table apart from some decent offensive instincts. He is no good defensively and disappears when the going gets rough. In a strictly hockey sense I thought playing him over Loui made us a poorer hockey team, he did literally nothing this whole playoff other than skate around a lot and turn the puck over endlessly. He would probably be a star in the AHL though...

 

[Canucks1096]

Gaudette had more games, but Sutter had more ES minutes/game.
In terms of overall ES minutes (reg season and playoffs), they were about the same (726 for Gaudette vs 697 for Sutter), but given that Gaudette had more 6 on 5 minutes, I suspect their 5 on 5 minutes were even closer.

In any case, even if their 5 on 5 scoring was the same this year (RS and playoffs), Gaudette is at the age where some improvement is possible.

On the other hand Sutter is what he is.

His scoring numbers have been bad at all ages and levels. His offensive stats in junior were awful (0.80 ppg in his draft eligible season and only 0.83 for his D+1 season); he only had 18 pts in 36 AHL games, and only has 30 pts per 80 games in 700+ NHL games in a variety of usage and linemate situations.

Sutter does have tougher matchup, more Dzone starts and worst linemates than Gaudette. That's more that makes up for mins he plays more.

When Sutter was 20/21 years of old. He has 21 G and on pace for 47 points. Gaudette was not good enough to make it to the nhl yet.

Anyway, my intent was not to compare the two players. My main point with the post was to show everyone Gaudette is just not that great of a player if he cant even have a better ppg than Sutter.

Sure Gaudette can improve. There is so much weakness in his Game which makes it highly unlikely he will become more than what he is right now. He is only around a year younger than Horvat. Skating issues, bad defensively, bad faceoffs, pace of the game he struggle with. He can't make quick decisions with the puck. The nhl game is just too fast for him. He needs that extra time and space. That's why I don't see more than Bottom 6 forward/2nd unit pp player. Gaudette only had 4 shots in 10 playoffs games

 

[StreetHawk]

This is what people wanted. 3 scoring Lines. However gaudette isn’t good enough to drag Virtanen and a non recovered from acl Roussel along. Solid player but not a guy who can drag others along.

if he doesnt improve defensively then you have to transition him to RW.

 

[Hammer79]

Gaudette doesn't belong anywhere near 3C at the NHL level. He's below replacement level right now for me.

 

[StreetHawk]

Gaudette doesn't belong anywhere near 3C at the NHL level. He's below replacement level right now for me.

In terms of ice time he should be a 4C because a 3C is supposed to be your main checker. IMO lines are designated 1-4 based off ice time not scoring ability.

he never came in as a checking C. But the question was whether he’s good enough to be a 2C offensively or if he could get better defensively to not be a liability in the bottom 6. The other option is to move him to wing if you believe in the more traditional 2 scoring lines while your 3/4C do the bulk of the PK and checking.

 

[VanJack]

People defending this guy don't get it; he is simply not big enough to compete in the NHL nor does he bring much to the table apart from some decent offensive instincts. He is no good defensively and disappears when the going gets rough. In a strictly hockey sense I thought playing him over Loui made us a poorer hockey team, he did literally nothing this whole playoff other than skate around a lot and turn the puck over endlessly. He would probably be a star in the AHL though...

Not big enough? Seriously? Hockey DB lists him at 6'1" and 180. This is about the same size as Matt Barzal and a giant compared to Brayden Point, two center stars who are still alive in these playoffs.

In relatively limited minutes, he had 12 goals and 34 points in 59 games. It's reasonable to assume he'd have finished the year with at least 15 goals and 40 points over 82 games. That's 'top production' for a third line center in the NHL.

Maybe if Green gave him decent wingers to work with instead of slugs like Roussel and Sutter, he might be a lot more effective. That's an awful third line, and their center isn't the problem.

 

[Zippgunn]

Not big enough? Seriously? Hockey DB lists him at 6'1" and 180. This is about the same size as Matt Barzal and a giant compared to Brayden Point, two center stars who are still alive in these playoffs.

In relatively limited minutes, he had 12 goals and 34 points in 59 games. It's reasonable to assume he'd have finished the year with at least 15 goals and 40 points over 82 games. That's 'top production' for a third line center in the NHL.

Maybe if Green gave him decent wingers to work with instead of slugs like Roussel and Sutter, he might be a lot more effective. That's an awful third line, and their center isn't the problem.

Are you kidding? Roussel completely outplayed him in these playoffs.

 

[VanJack]

People rag on about Gaudette's defense.....but the other choices in the middle are Sutter and Beagle, and they might actually be worse. Beagle can win a few faceoffs but is a defensive liability because he just can't get there anymore. And Sutter likely wouldn't even be on this team if his contract was up this year instead at the end of next season. His game has deteriorated that badly.

So dump Gaudette if you want.....but not before finding a decent replacement. Just once I'd like to see Gaudette get a decent amount of ice-time flanking wingers like MacEwen/Motte or Virtanen. Gaudette was on a 40-point pace with severely limited ice team; a batch of healthy scratches; and a carousel of wingers who're lucky to score a goal a month.

 

[Canucks1096]

People rag on about Gaudette's defense.....but the other choices in the middle are Sutter and Beagle, and they might actually be worse. Beagle can win a few faceoffs but is a defensive liability because he just can't get there anymore. And Sutter likely wouldn't even be on this team if his contract was up this year instead at the end of next season. His game has deteriorated that badly.

So dump Gaudette if you want.....but not before finding a decent replacement. Just once I'd like to see Gaudette get a decent amount of ice-time flanking wingers like MacEwen/Motte or Virtanen. Gaudette was on a 40-point pace with severely limited ice team; a batch of healthy scratches; and a carousel of wingers who're lucky to score a goal a month.

Your winger argument is not accurate. His regular linemate was Virtanen, Virtanen has the 2nd most even strength goals on the team. Also Gaudette did get 80 mins in the regular season and 13 mins on the playoff with Boeser. Looking at the scoring log Boeser and Gaudette were not in on any goals together. Please don't give us the linemate argument.

Yes that is true, 40 point is a high end third line center but even strength he is low end third line center or high end 4th line center. Reason why I am focus so much on even strength because 2nd unit pp scoring wasn't sustainable. I said that for almost the whole year. In the playoff no 2nd unit ppg. That proves I am right on that point.

Also 16 of Gaudette 21 assists were secondary assist which means he is not the one driving the offence.

Also you can't deny Gaudette was extremely lucky. Hughes 1st nhl goal, he get backchecked off the puck and he ends up getting an assist. Against the ducks he wanted to make a pass to Sutter and goes off Sutter skate and goes in the net. Another play, he wanted to pass to Stecher, makes a bad pass and goes off of skate and goes in.

I would say there 95% chance he will not be at a 40 point pace next year. I say no more than early 30 points. All the points that I gave you are all legit point.

If you want to keep Gaudette as a the third line center base in his age. Fair enough but he just not as good as you think he is. First 20 games I remember there 4 or 5 people that thought Gaudette was going to better Horvat. Don't remember if you're one of them. But if you're, please stop

 

[lakai17]

where is Gaudette playing in the lineup for the upcoming season? 3rd or 4th line?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

where is Gaudette playing in the lineup for the upcoming season? 3rd or 4th line?

Probably the 3rd line , although I still don't see him as a legitimate Centre... also ,depending on the value that Benning has in Jake Virtanen (is he a luxury on the 3rd line ?..Could he be replaced by a cheaper option..?)

A lot of balls in the air right now.

 

[Ottobot]

If he’s not a legit option at 3rd line center I just don’t get what Gaudette’s fit is on the team long term.

- It appears he’s not going to be Sutter’s replacement/upgrade at center
- A guy like Leivo can do the same for less money at least for one year.
- If Gaudette can’t stay at center; Hoglander or Podkolzin are coming and you’d expect one of them to be penciled in for Pearson’s spot making ELC money

Find a comparable value RFA defenseman or package him with a cap dump and move on.

 

[Fatass]

If he’s not a legit option at 3rd line center I just don’t get what Gaudette’s fit is on the team long term.

- It appears he’s not going to be Sutter’s replacement/upgrade at center
- A guy like Leivo can do the same for less money at least for one year.
- If Gaudette can’t stay at center; Hoglander or Podkolzin are coming and you’d expect one of them to be penciled in for Pearson’s spot making ELC money

Find a comparable value RFA defenseman or package him with a cap dump and move on.

Use Gaud as sweetener for a team to take Baer. Keep Sutter here for the last year of his contract. Play Hoglander on Sutter’s wing to drive offence. Five million for Baer and Gaud minus 1 million for Hogs saves us 4 million off the cap. And we are a better team.

 

[Fatass]

If he’s not a legit option at 3rd line center I just don’t get what Gaudette’s fit is on the team long term.

- It appears he’s not going to be Sutter’s replacement/upgrade at center
- A guy like Leivo can do the same for less money at least for one year.
- If Gaudette can’t stay at center; Hoglander or Podkolzin are coming and you’d expect one of them to be penciled in for Pearson’s spot making ELC money

Find a comparable value RFA defenseman or package him with a cap dump and move on.

Use Gaud as sweetener for a team to take Baer. Keep Sutter here for the last year of his contract. Play Hoglander on Sutter’s wing to drive offence. Five million for Baer and Gaud minus 1 million for Hogs saves us 4 million off the cap. And we are a better team.

 

[sting101]

Use Gaud as sweetener for a team to take Baer. Keep Sutter here for the last year of his contract. Play Hoglander on Sutter’s wing to drive offence. Five million for Baer and Gaud minus 1 million for Hogs saves us 4 million off the cap. And we are a better team.

WTF man?

You repeat this over and over? Why the hell would we sweeten anything unless it makes sense to do so?

Gaudette is a fine young player is an RFA without arbitration rights. He likely gets paid 1.4 to 1.8 for 30-45pts. You take that and run all day long.

Why would we do anything to move that idiot Baertschi for 6months of 2-2.5 of cap space? He can rot in Utica or quit if someone doesn't want him. That's an insane waste of a player

 

[Fatass]

WTF man?

You repeat this over and over? Why the hell would we sweeten anything unless it makes sense to do so?

Gaudette is a fine young player is an RFA without arbitration rights. He likely gets paid 1.4 to 1.8 for 30-45pts. You take that and run all day long.

Why would we do anything to move that idiot Baertschi for 6months of 2-2.5 of cap space? He can rot in Utica or quit if someone doesn't want him. That's an insane waste of a player

Hogs will be better than Gaud on Sutter’s wing. Gaud isn’t an NHL centre right now. Sutter is. Sutter plays PK too. Save the four million. Better team.

(Ps) nothing we suggest will actually happen, so no need to get overly excited.

 

[sting101]

Hogs will be better than Gaud on Sutter’s wing. Gaud isn’t an NHL centre right now. Sutter is. Sutter plays PK too. Save the four million. Better team.

(Ps) nothing we suggest will actually happen, so no need to get overly excited.

all good big Larry

Let me know what you think of my Subban proposal in the fantasy roster thread. Flame away

 

[Fatass]

all good big Larry

Let me know what you think of my Subban proposal in the fantasy roster thread. Flame away

I friggin’ hate the Flames! My in-laws are from Cow Town. (Puke emoji)

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Hogs will be better than Gaud on Sutter’s wing. Gaud isn’t an NHL centre right now. Sutter is. Sutter plays PK too. Save the four million. Better team.

(Ps) nothing we suggest will actually happen, so no need to get overly excited.

I like Hoglander, but he wouldn't be better than Gaudette right now. We shouldn't rush hoglander. Have him spend some time in the minors to develop, unless he comes into training and earns a spot.

 

[Bleach Clean]

This is the year to run with Gaudette as the 3C while flanked by 2 defensively conscious wingers.

I want to see this line next year:

Roussel-Gaudette-Leivo