Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXIX

Status
Not open for further replies.

OV Rocks

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
1,068
371
Beach with Beer
Forgive me if I am wrong. Are not the pens in deep injury boo on defense? Is not Bonino stinking it up this season? Is Sheary out with a significant injury? How is Cullen?

How many of the players they want to replace are performing. At or above expectations?

Would you say that the Penguins were Stanley Cup contenders at this time last season?
New coach, injuries then, and under achieving players (stars).

What separates the penguins is their extreme scoring depth. Think about the fact that for about 90% of the game one of Kessel, Malkin, and Crosby will be on the ice. Add in a player like Duchene or Kane and then 90% of the time they have one of if not multiple All Stars on the ice. The playoffs is all about scoring depth and that is something the Penguins have in spades.

The Caps cannot answer that scoring depth and they NEED to in order to beat them in a 7 game series when the scoring dries up because it will, it always does. The Pens have proven they can win with a weak defense because they believe the best defense is a good offense and they have the Stanley Cup to prove it.

Again I will say how many times now have the Caps been "Happy With The Team We Have" and how has that worked for us. Has Glencross, Erat, Webber, Gleason, etc. worked in the past?? How many times have we added depth only to see that depth player cost us a series???
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
32,266
8,893
I'm not saying grossly overpay for a rental, but prospects and draft picks typically don't have the value people think they have so I'd be okay with adding a significant piece even if it means parting with some futures.
Given how consistently Washington has been able to hit in the first round, I'm not sure that's true in their case. Other assets maybe but I'm not really for selling the farm for a rental. I'm for a more serious questioning of whether the core is good enough and if making a hockey trade is necessary. For me the sort of question to be asked is whether a swap of Johansson for Evander Kane is worthwhile or not? That's where I'd be focusing. Yet I doubt they're prepared to risk upsetting chemistry for the sake of an upgrade and potential further increase of 5-on-5 goal potential.

They will need cheap young talent to balance out pending raises. Vrana, Sanford and maybe Bowey could be that next year. Down the line maybe Johansen, Gersich, Siegenthaler and a goalie can provide cheap non-fringe production. Even in a weaker draft class I'd be hesitant to give up their first for a player that's only going to walk in the summer (and likely to a division rival when it comes to Shattenkirk). Even in a year where some anonymous execs have trashed the draft class, there will be players at their pick. Even if Grubauer's stock is rising to the point where they may be able to net a first rounder pre-expansion draft, I'd hold on to their pick. It could open up a trade up scenario to net an even better piece for the future or allow them to restock and reload better.

I don't think they have their sights set that high either way. They seem to be in tweak mode, which is their norm. Sure enough, this group has performed but I can't believe they're 100% confident in their depth options. IMO it's a no-brainer to spend their third in 2018 and fourth rounder for a forward and defender that improves depth. It's at that level where the risk/reward point is hard to deny, provided they're not spent on the next Weber/Gleason.
 

BiPolar Caps

Registered User
Feb 9, 2010
9,568
2,746
NOVA
I keep looking at the Avs Tyutin and Iginla as far as obtaining veteran depth players. Not sure it could be done cap wise even with 50% salary retention by the Avs. Both will be UFAs, not sure what the asking price would be.

Third line of Connolly - Eller - Iginla until Bura comes back.
 

hb12xchamps

Registered User
Dec 23, 2011
8,790
5,390
Pennsylvania
When was the last time a team lost both goaltenders in the playoffs? Has this EVER happened? If so, like, what, once?

Yes, odd priorities unless they think it'll be easier to add a goalie now than sign one to replace Grub next year.

And they could certainly used depth.

Vrana and Sanford are as green as can be and you will need spare forwards if you go 4 rounds.

Last year Zarkoff filled in for Fleury and Murray who were both out with injuries and he won a playoff game for them. It's better to be prepared.

Plus at least last year they had Justin Peters in Hershey to fill in if needed and he is significantly better than Cannata
 

hb12xchamps

Registered User
Dec 23, 2011
8,790
5,390
Pennsylvania
Anyone want to compare the number and significance of trades made at the TDL by the eventual Cup winners vs how many other teams made moves and failed to win the Cup? I'd like to see that analysis for the salary cap era if anyone's interested.

Because I have a feeling there are far more moves that don't pan out due to the law of averages, but we only see and remember the ones that work.

I believe I did a break down of all the trades from SC teams last year in a thread. I would have to dig it up. I think most of the significant moves happened either in the offseason or before the TDL if I remember correctly
 

Melkor

Registered User
Jul 22, 2012
5,251
2,450
Auckland, New Zealand
I keep looking at the Avs Tyutin and Iginla as far as obtaining veteran depth players. Not sure it could be done cap wise even with 50% salary retention by the Avs. Both will be UFAs, not sure what the asking price would be.

Third line of Connolly - Eller - Iginla until Bura comes back.

Tyutin is not an NHL level player. Iginla doesnt do much for this team. They should make a big trade. Nothing peripheral would help them.
 

twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
13,624
14,443
Given how consistently Washington has been able to hit in the first round, I'm not sure that's true in their case. Other assets maybe but I'm not really for selling the farm for a rental. I'm for a more serious questioning of whether the core is good enough and if making a hockey trade is necessary. For me the sort of question to be asked is whether a swap of Johansson for Evander Kane is worthwhile or not? That's where I'd be focusing. Yet I doubt they're prepared to risk upsetting chemistry for the sake of an upgrade and potential further increase of 5-on-5 goal potential.

They will need cheap young talent to balance out pending raises. Vrana, Sanford and maybe Bowey could be that next year. Down the line maybe Johansen, Gersich, Siegenthaler and a goalie can provide cheap non-fringe production. Even in a weaker draft class I'd be hesitant to give up their first for a player that's only going to walk in the summer (and likely to a division rival when it comes to Shattenkirk). Even in a year where some anonymous execs have trashed the draft class, there will be players at their pick. Even if Grubauer's stock is rising to the point where they may be able to net a first rounder pre-expansion draft, I'd hold on to their pick. It could open up a trade up scenario to net an even better piece for the future or allow them to restock and reload better.

I don't think they have their sights set that high either way. They seem to be in tweak mode, which is their norm. Sure enough, this group has performed but I can't believe they're 100% confident in their depth options. IMO it's a no-brainer to spend their third in 2018 and fourth rounder for a forward and defender that improves depth. It's at that level where the risk/reward point is hard to deny, provided they're not spent on the next Weber/Gleason.

Again, I wouldn't grossly overpay for a rental. If Shattenkirk for example is really going for the rumored asking price of a 1st round pick + a good prospect (Bowey? Vrana?) + something else (another draft pick maybe) then I'd probably pass on it for the reasons you stated. I just don't want them to be scared of potentially dealing a first round pick, for example, if there is a deal that actually makes sense. Maybe the asking price for Shattenkirk will go down and only require a first round pick, in which case I would do it without hesitation.

I'm just not sold on this team being perfect like many here are. They've already stumbled out of the bye week and shown vulnerabilities to fast teams like the Rangers and Penguins, and their top pairing of Alzner and Carlson looks weaker than ever. This isn't some team with very slight depth problems, they have a big hole in their top 4 that probably should be addressed. Maybe Shattenkirk isn't the answer and maybe there isn't an answer until the offseason, but I'd hate for management to not even acknowledge the gaping hole in their roster.
 
Last edited:

BiPolar Caps

Registered User
Feb 9, 2010
9,568
2,746
NOVA
Tyutin is not an NHL level player. Iginla doesnt do much for this team. They should make a big trade. Nothing peripheral would help them.

Make a big trade to do what? What lines do you think need an upgrade?
Perhaps the third line due to the Burakovsky injury. Big trades mean you're giving up major assets. There's no need to do that. Minor tweeking at best and it's only for depth/insurance purposes.
 

Bananas

****
Mar 26, 2007
3,760
1,817
Again, I wouldn't grossly overpay for a rental. If Shattenkirk for example is really going for the rumored asking price of a 1st round pick + a good prospect (Bowey? Vrana?) + something else (another draft pick maybe) then I'd probably pass on it for the reasons you stated. I just don't want them to be scared of potentially dealing a first round pick, for example, if there is a deal that actually makes sense. Maybe the asking price for Shattenkirk will go down and only require a first round pick, in which case I would do it without hesitation.

I'm just not sold on this team being perfect like many here are. They've already stumbled out of the bye week and shown vulnerabilities to fast teams like the Rangers and Penguins, and their top pairing of Alzner and Carlson looks weaker than ever. This isn't some team with very slight depth problems, they have a big hole in their top 4 that probably should be addressed. Maybe Shattenkirk isn't the answer and maybe there isn't an answer until the offseason, but I'd hate for management to not even acknowledge the gaping hole in their roster.

I'd almost prefer standing pat to making solely depth moves. Make the organization take it upon itself to plug any holes that arise and have the guys in Hershey on their toes waiting to come up and join the fracus.

With that said, I think removing someone like Burakovsky and now a Niskanen or an Orpik shows that losing one major piece renders us a lot less formidable. Minus Bura that bottom six looks a lot less likely to chip in with consistent scoring. If you take out any of our top six defenseman, the D pairings start to look a lot more suspect. I personally think a quality add is the way to go on either side of the ice.

I typically agree with Langway but I'm gonna have to beg to differ on that first round pick. I think moving it is the only way we make a trade that nets us a quality player. Lower level deadline adds have proven to not work for this regime. Glencross and Weber were both terrible middling depth additions. If you substitute either of those trades for one involving our first round pick and netting a higher caliber player in return, I think there's a very good chance we make it past the Rangers two years ago and the Pens last year. In essensce, the last two deadlines cost us legitimate chances at our first Cup. In retrospect, I don't think that it can be argued that our last two deadlines helped us. In fact they seemed to do the exact opposite.

I think we can't afford to make the same mistake three years in a row. So stand pat and make an organizational call-to-arms or go after someone who can legitimately help us make a run.
 

EroCaps

Registered User
Aug 24, 2003
18,026
1,636
Virginia
Last year Zarkoff filled in for Fleury and Murray who were both out with injuries and he won a playoff game for them. It's better to be prepared.

Plus at least last year they had Justin Peters in Hershey to fill in if needed and he is significantly better than Cannata

Sorry, I think this is just an absurd concern.

If they need to use a 3rd goalie for any amount of time, which is highly unlikely, they aren't winning anyways.

They should upgrade as much as possible at the TDL. They've been *****footing around it for years, like losers, and this may be their last best shot.
 

Valhuen

Secretary of Defense
Apr 10, 2011
447
0
Tucson via Spokane
Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about the possibility of Green coming back to Washington. Thoughts? I find it an interesting what-if, though at 6m a year don't know if we could even make that work.
 

Chokingdogs

Registered User
Apr 18, 2006
1,956
692
Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about the possibility of Green coming back to Washington. Thoughts? I find it an interesting what-if, though at 6m a year don't know if we could even make that work.

why?

forget his contract....what on earth would/could he bring, other than being able to feed ovechkin one timers on the PP?
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
32,266
8,893
If they move on a top four defender it's probably less due to Carlzner and more from, say, being wrecked without Niskanen. How some D respond without him could be pretty crucial.

I don't think they're perfect either. They're solid and moderately deep but there are questions up and down the lineup when placed under the more harsh conditions of playoff hockey. The playoffs are an intense, emotional time but it's the front office's responsibility to learn from past runs and plan accordingly. They always lament lack of scoring yet here again they seem fairly content with a forward group that may be enough but also has a fair share of question marks.

When I look at some of the underlying stats--plus the eye test--the two roles I find most questionable are those occupied by Johansson and Alzner. They're both a bit too passive. Johansson's Shots/60 is below Winnik and Wilson. His iFenwick/60 is below Sanford and Chorney. His assist rate is higher but he's never been a high-grade even-strength playmaker IMO. He's the weak spot in the top six and Alzner is likely the weak spot in the top 4 (unless Orlov struggles). It's less about those two obviously costing them in the playoffs with mistakes as quietly just not doing enough to win. That's what it's all about. That's the mentality they have to have from the top down.

I don't think there's a legit target worth spending the first rounder on anyway, aside from Shattenkirk if that alone is all it takes. Vanek or Hanzal are probably not going to provide enough replacement value. The group and their style is reliable enough to be competitive but being competitive isn't the goal. The goal is to aggressively break through and make this year different. Their deadline logic ought to resemble that (on a responsible level at least). No acquisition assures anything but when every inch is needed and they're challenged across the board every shred of ability can help make a difference.
 

Valhuen

Secretary of Defense
Apr 10, 2011
447
0
Tucson via Spokane
why?

forget his contract....what on earth would/could he bring, other than being able to feed ovechkin one timers on the PP?

Honestly, in the bizarre off-chance it happened, with a 50% retention by DET (putting him at 3m a year), I would take a chance. His chemistry with Ovechkin would likely still be there, and he provides a scoring threat from the blue line.

Defensively he would likely be a liability, but if paired with a Niskanen that could be partially off-set. Simply bringing it up as a more economically viable D alternative to say getting a Shattenkirk (which I would still prefer at any rate).

Though I know most fans would rather just forget about him.
 

Todos a la Calle

Registered User
Mar 30, 2015
189
117
Mexico City
Green lost us game 7 against the Rangers a couple years ago with dumb penalties. He was on the 3rd pairing at the time. I wish him the best, but he's not what we need.
 

Valhuen

Secretary of Defense
Apr 10, 2011
447
0
Tucson via Spokane
Green had lots of chances to shine in the playoffs here. He didn't. That ship has sailed.

That was when Green was our number 1 D. If playing on a second pairing, bolstered by our current D core (relieving some of his defensive holes), he would have a bit of a different role. I'm not saying it would work, or that it is even a good idea, just something I was giving some thought to for a long playoff run.
 

Valhuen

Secretary of Defense
Apr 10, 2011
447
0
Tucson via Spokane
Green lost us game 7 against the Rangers a couple years ago with dumb penalties. He was on the 3rd pairing at the time. I wish him the best, but he's not what we need.

I agree, mistakes like that are rarely forgotten. Once a player has burned the bridge with a fanbase/organization they rarely are given a second chance, even if they shine elsewhere.
 

Valhuen

Secretary of Defense
Apr 10, 2011
447
0
Tucson via Spokane
Think it's safe to say Shattenkirk likely has no interest signing long-term with the Caps. So he is probably out of play as anything other than an overpriced rental.
 

sycamore

Registered User
Jan 16, 2010
5,042
1,053
Think it's safe to say Shattenkirk likely has no interest signing long-term with the Caps. So he is probably out of play as anything other than an overpriced rental.

St Louis fans have zero interest in Grubs + 1st rd pick for Shattenkirk. They want Vrana, nothing less. :shakehead
 

sycamore

Registered User
Jan 16, 2010
5,042
1,053
Would you say that the Penguins were Stanley Cup contenders at this time last season?
New coach, injuries then, and under achieving players (stars).

This is EXACTLY the time they started to get hot and went on their legendary streak. They struggled in the first half on the season, not the latter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->