Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXIII

Status
Not open for further replies.

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
64,567
19,354
from what ive read, yes they could. but i think they had to agree on that. and they could still do a 2 year arb this year

Someone gimme more info on this...if they can force the 2 year this year they must. It will simply cost more than last chance and that's a mistake, but not an irreparable one like him walking for free. One more run then pull the cord.
 

hockeykicker

Moderator
Dec 3, 2014
35,133
12,632
Someone gimme more info on this...if they can force the 2 year this year they must. It will simply cost more than last chance and that's a mistake, but not an irreparable one like him walking for free. One more run then pull the cord.

what i found

the first step, now that hearings are scheduled and arbitrators assigned, is for the two sides to exchange briefs - including each side's proposed salary figure - no less than 48 hours before the start of the hearing (nearly all of the hearings take place at 9 a.m. ET). Teams peg the value of their players at a figure significantly lower than what they're worth, while players generally do the same. This is part of why the process can be so damaging for relationships.

Also determined when the briefs are exchanged: the side against whom arbitration was filed gets to elect a term of either one or two years for the potential award. In "player-elected salary arbitration," the team will decide on a one or two-year term for the award. In "club-elected salary arbitration," the player will decide.

At the hearing, each side has 90 minutes to present their case, and must allocate those 90 minutes between their direct case and rebuttal case in any manner they choose. If the party that presents their direct case second introduces a "substantive issue" or a new comparable player, then the second side can request an additional 10 minutes for rebuttal.
 

SpinningEdge

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
7,719
3,492
Fairfax, VA
You cannot force a 2-year for arbitration when the person is up for UFA. If Caps were going to do it - last year was the year. No idea why they didn't. What "prove it" type year were Caps looking for? Its been obvious what MoJo is and has been for years now. A mid fourty point guy, who is decent even strength, never have to worry about penalties, and produces well on the PP. That's who he is.

Caps need to trade him. The issue is if he's going to arbitration - does this mean MoJo would need to re-sign with new team before the 20th as hes elected for arbitration? If that's the case - I don't think a deal is going to be made.

It's a issue that should have been dealt with by now, that's for sure. If he signs for arbitration I think a rule is you can't trade a player until 30 days after they sign. Also, it makes trading him tougher as the new team would have to for sure sign him and may not give up much b/c he can enter free agency next year.

All in all - just a really bad strategic move with Johansson. IF he's moved - he has real value. If he stays - he should have gotten a 2 year deal last year for cheaper - or Caps should know what he is/pay him for a 3-4 year term. It's obvious what he is and everyone knows who Johansson is now... they should have this figured out.
 

hockeykicker

Moderator
Dec 3, 2014
35,133
12,632
You cannot force a 2-year for arbitration when the person is up for UFA. If Caps were going to do it - last year was the year. No idea why they didn't. What "prove it" type year were Caps looking for? Its been obvious what MoJo is and has been for years now. A mid fourty point guy, who is decent even strength, never have to worry about penalties, and produces well on the PP. That's who he is.

Caps need to trade him. The issue is if he's going to arbitration - does this mean MoJo would need to re-sign with new team before the 20th as hes elected for arbitration? If that's the case - I don't think a deal is going to be made.

It's a issue that should have been dealt with by now, that's for sure. If he signs for arbitration I think a rule is you can't trade a player until 30 days after they sign. Also, it makes trading him tougher as the new team would have to for sure sign him and may not give up much b/c he can enter free agency next year.

All in all - just a really bad strategic move with Johansson. IF he's moved - he has real value. If he stays - he should have gotten a 2 year deal last year for cheaper - or Caps should know what he is/pay him for a 3-4 year term. It's obvious what he is and everyone knows who Johansson is now... they should have this figured out.

Well he did go from 8 goals to 20 goals. That's a huge difference. You don't wanna be stuck with a 4 mil contract for mojo if he goes back to his 8 goals where he was at the year before. If he gave mojo a 2 year at 4 mil ish and he then puts up 8 goals again, everyone is whining about gmbm not going for one year
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
32,345
9,006
Caps need to trade him. The issue is if he's going to arbitration - does this mean MoJo would need to re-sign with new team before the 20th as hes elected for arbitration? If that's the case - I don't think a deal is going to be made.
An extension can be reached up until when the ruling comes down, which would be within 48 hours of the hearing (so the 22nd at the latest). They can trade him any time.

They should have moved him earlier in the summer. That they haven't suggests either the market is weak or their line in the sand is softer than they've let on. They shouldn't even give him $4M and term, let alone $4.5M+. He's a decent player but the fit aside from PP1 is not strong to the point where market value is tolerable. MacLellan needs to be decisive here and time is running out.
 

SpinningEdge

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
7,719
3,492
Fairfax, VA
Well he did go from 8 goals to 20 goals. That's a huge difference. You don't wanna be stuck with a 4 mil contract for mojo if he goes back to his 8 goals where he was at the year before. If he gave mojo a 2 year at 4 mil ish and he then puts up 8 goals again, everyone is whining about gmbm not going for one year

Does it matter much if Johansson is getting 8 goals, 20 goals, or 15 goals - as long as he's consistently getting 45 points?

Since his second year in the league hes been a mid 40 point guy. He was on pace for over 50 points the lockout year - so hes basically been at least a mid fourty point guy for five years in a row (four years in a row after last year when they didn't sign him and had to have a arbitrator come up with his salary). It's obvious Caps don't feel Johansson is worth what the market says he's worth.

Caps are in a weird situation with him now. They can't realyl trade him for a better player that's a rental at the deadline - b/c he's a rental now himself after this arbitration and getting just a one year deal. They can't trade him now either b/c no team will have time to really negotiate a deal with him. Deal would have to get done asap and Johansson would have to agree to an extension. Doable - but not likely.

The only thing that really makes sense would be for Caps to trade Johnasson mid season to another contender for a prospect/pick they'd then flip for someting else - but GMBM doesn't seem like that type of GM. If Caps are doing well and Johansson is still up to his mid 40 point pace, he'll probably "like his team" and just worry about Mike Weber's and Mike Richards players again... b/c he's basically GMGM 2.0 and hasn't done anything mid season to really make the Caps a true contender to get past the second round.

Other option would be sign him - wait 30 days until he can be traded - then move him befoe the season... but I don't see Caps signing Johansson at this point. It's probably just going to be the one year deal again - and then he'll be off to FA next year. Caps have had players leave while in this "contending mode" time and time again for nothing. Semin, Green, etc.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
37,027
13,452
Philadelphia
This place is gonna be real funny when people cheer dumping Johansson to pick up Versteeg, only to realize 10 games in that Versteeg is a pretty equivalent version of Johansson without the powerplay fit.
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
32,345
9,006
It depends on the futures. I'd take Hudler over Versteeg, although I'm not sure Trotz would utilize either to the utmost. At least with Hudler they'd maybe also get some PP1 savvy. If Mr. Veteran Stopgap fails they should just fast-track Vrana. His weaknesses aren't that severe...it's just that they systematically overemphasize most of them and underemphasize things like pace and hockey sense. You can't do epic **** with basic people.
 

um

Registered User
Sep 4, 2008
15,740
5,376
toronto
This place is gonna be real funny when people cheer dumping Johansson to pick up Versteeg, only to realize 10 games in that Versteeg is a pretty equivalent version of Johansson without the powerplay fit.

dumping Johansson as in getting nothing for him? I doubt anyone would cheer for that.

But if we could get someone who is equal in ability and cost less than Mojo minus his powerplay fit that our team is hopeless without :rolleyes: (which i think is hopeful myself as anyone but Hudler would likely be a downgrade, but you said it), that plus the fair return for Mojo would be fantastic.
 

Ridley Simon

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 27, 2002
18,226
9,201
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA

Ridley Simon

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 27, 2002
18,226
9,201
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
Does it matter much if Johansson is getting 8 goals, 20 goals, or 15 goals - as long as he's consistently getting 45 points?

Since his second year in the league hes been a mid 40 point guy. He was on pace for over 50 points the lockout year - so hes basically been at least a mid fourty point guy for five years in a row (four years in a row after last year when they didn't sign him and had to have a arbitrator come up with his salary). It's obvious Caps don't feel Johansson is worth what the market says he's worth.

Caps are in a weird situation with him now. They can't realyl trade him for a better player that's a rental at the deadline - b/c he's a rental now himself after this arbitration and getting just a one year deal. They can't trade him now either b/c no team will have time to really negotiate a deal with him. Deal would have to get done asap and Johansson would have to agree to an extension. Doable - but not likely.

The only thing that really makes sense would be for Caps to trade Johnasson mid season to another contender for a prospect/pick they'd then flip for someting else - but GMBM doesn't seem like that type of GM. If Caps are doing well and Johansson is still up to his mid 40 point pace, he'll probably "like his team" and just worry about Mike Weber's and Mike Richards players again... b/c he's basically GMGM 2.0 and hasn't done anything mid season to really make the Caps a true contender to get past the second round.

Other option would be sign him - wait 30 days until he can be traded - then move him befoe the season... but I don't see Caps signing Johansson at this point. It's probably just going to be the one year deal again - and then he'll be off to FA next year. Caps have had players leave while in this "contending mode" time and time again for nothing. Semin, Green, etc.

GMBM is NOT GMGM 2.0

Go and look at the roster starting 2013 (George's last season), and the one the team has now. The team is LIGHT YEARS better, with a very similar salary cap. To argue that's it's the same team is not only factually incorrect, it's arguable moronic.

Stop with that crap.:rant:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Ajax1995

Registered User
Dec 9, 2002
8,807
866
This place is gonna be real funny when people cheer dumping Johansson to pick up Versteeg, only to realize 10 games in that Versteeg is a pretty equivalent version of Johansson without the powerplay fit.

Have you learned nothing in your years on Caps' boards in general? The grass is always greener when considering any kind of replacement for a whipping boy. Heck it is basically addition by subtraction in many cases and a warm body is thus an upgrade.

The irony of wanting a strong return for these unwanted players is always amusing though...
 

SpinningEdge

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
7,719
3,492
Fairfax, VA
GMBM is NOT GMGM 2.0

Go and look at the roster starting 2013 (George's last season), and the one the team has now. The team is LIGHT YEARS better, with a very similar salary cap. To argue that's it's the same team is not only factually incorrect, it's arguable moronic.

Stop with that crap.:rant:

Yet still same results.

Zero acquisitions that helped team get over the top.

Caps top D guys? Carlson and Alzner - McPhee. Caps top forwards - ovi, Backstrom, and Kuzy - all McPhee. Goalie is Holtby - also McPhee.

The team now by losing Chimera and adding Eller and losing Latta and adding Connolly doesn't go from one playoff series win to Stanley Cup.

Caps are serious contenders and have done nothing major to take the next step. They're so close but can't make the move that true Cup winners make. Pitt, LA, and Chicago all have franchise players and actually realize they're lucky to have them and try to help them out. Caps top 6 players are the same players GMBM was handed 3 seasons ago.... But he's trying to fill bottom 6 depth to fix secondary scoring? Yeah, good luck with that plan.

Caps have avg'd two goals per game in the playoffs on avg their last 4 trips and never avg'd more than 2.5 goals. You don't lose Chimera and add Eller and all of a sudden break that trend. Don't caps fans know history repeats itself?

Pitt added Kessel - big time addition. Chicago has traded 1st rd picks for big time adds. LA has added Carter, Gaborik, Lucic, etc over the years.... Big time adds. Caps try to add Mike Webers, Goencross, and Lars Eller to get over the hump.

If Caps want significant changes and results - then they should you know.... Make a significant change.

GMBM has said window is the past two years yet last two first rd picks have been a goalie (right when we have Holtby in his prime) and now a undersized D guy 3-4 years away. Think any team that goes deep in the playoffs or wins Cups makes those picks instead of making a move that helps generational type players now at the end of their prime make a real cup run? No way. Only the dumb front office for the Caps do.

Issue I said along is GMBM waited 10+ years as an assistant to GMGM and now finally gets his first shot as a GM. He's playing it safe. He's not making big chances for a real cup chance - he's making "let's get to the playoffs and see what happens" moves. All his moves scream He just wants to keep his job as a GM long term instead of WIN NOW.... And its ownerships fault GMBM can feel that way. He let McPhee keep a job for 15 damn years after failure after failure. No wonder GMBM is doing absolutely nothing that says they are really going all in for just one year.

Until proven otherwise - nothing has been different with GMBM. Same great regular seasons and same playoff 2nd rd losses. It's the same thing.

Caps screwed up big time hiring a rookie GM. They should of brought on a vet looking for Cups now. Not trying to just keep a job he worked 10+ years trying to get. How have Caps not learned that rookie bosses don't work? Have they not learned from their coaching mistakes?
 

Ridley Simon

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 27, 2002
18,226
9,201
Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
Yet still same results.

Zero acquisitions that helped team get over the top.

Caps top D guys? Carlson and Alzner - McPhee. Caps top forwards - ovi, Backstrom, and Kuzy - all McPhee. Goalie is Holtby - also McPhee.

The team now by losing Chimera and adding Eller and losing Latta and adding Connolly doesn't go from one playoff series win to Stanley Cup.

Caps are serious contenders and have done nothing major to take the next step. They're so close but can't make the move that true Cup winners make. Pitt, LA, and Chicago all have franchise players and actually realize they're lucky to have them and try to help them out. Caps top 6 players are the same players GMBM was handed 3 seasons ago.... But he's trying to fill bottom 6 depth to fix secondary scoring? Yeah, good luck with that plan.

Caps have avg'd two goals per game in the playoffs on avg their last 4 trips and never avg'd more than 2.5 goals. You don't lose Chimera and add Eller and all of a sudden break that trend. Don't caps fans know history repeats itself?

Pitt added Kessel - big time addition. Chicago has traded 1st rd picks for big time adds. LA has added Carter, Gaborik, Lucic, etc over the years.... Big time adds. Caps try to add Mike Webers, Goencross, and Lars Eller to get over the hump.

If Caps want significant changes and results - then they should you know.... Make a significant change.

GMBM has said window is the past two years yet last two first rd picks have been a goalie (right when we have Holtby in his prime) and now a undersized D guy 3-4 years away. Think any team that goes deep in the playoffs or wins Cups makes those picks instead of making a move that helps generational type players now at the end of their prime make a real cup run? No way. Only the dumb front office for the Caps do.

Issue I said along is GMBM waited 10+ years as an assistant to GMGM and now finally gets his first shot as a GM. He's playing it safe. He's not making big chances for a real cup chance - he's making "let's get to the playoffs and see what happens" moves. All his moves scream He just wants to keep his job as a GM long term instead of WIN NOW.... And its ownerships fault GMBM can feel that way. He let McPhee keep a job for 15 damn years after failure after failure. No wonder GMBM is doing absolutely nothing that says they are really going all in for just one year.

Until proven otherwise - nothing has been different with GMBM. Same great regular seasons and same playoff 2nd rd losses. It's the same thing.

Caps screwed up big time hiring a rookie GM. They should of brought on a vet looking for Cups now. Not trying to just keep a job he worked 10+ years trying to get. How have Caps not learned that rookie bosses don't work? Have they not learned from their coaching mistakes?

There is so much one sided anger here, it's pretty much useless to debate you. You went to be angry, so you are. Have at it. But frankly:

-All 2nd round losses are not created equal. How often did the Caps lose to the SC winner in George's 17 yr tenure? Competitively? I see Pitts in 2009. (Did Tampa win one of the years that we lost to them?). The 98 team was Poile's, but you can count it. So at best 3 times in 17 years. GMBM's teams lost to SC finalist in their hardest series, this year. So one in 2. Huh. Many people were saying -- before the Pens series -- that the winner had a great chance to win it all. That was the quality of the opponents... And look what happened.

-George had rookie coaches, for 17 years. Brian hired Trotz. About as opposite a rookie as can be.

-George thought defensemen meant adding guys like Kundratek and Corvo. Brian added a guy to our top pair (either Niskanen or Orpik, take your pick depending on the year).

-George make "hockey trades" once every 3-4 years. Brian did it in 15mo with Oshie for Brouwer. Huh.

-you blather on about George's draft picks being core of the team (Mahoney's BPA), and that continue to happen under Brian, yet somehow it's bad for Brian and good for George?

-again, you are whining for the sakes of it, as I've stared before. Brian has had TWO freaking years. That's all he's had to turn a floundering rudderless franchise that missed the playoffs into a juggernaut. This season is HUGE for the team, as they are in year 3 of his regime. Each year has been progress. George had 17 freaking years. To try and compare the 2 regimes is outlandish, for a variety of reasons. To actually say they are the same is moronic, and it's all based on the Pens series loss.

Any businessman would see the progress. It's obvious. If I owned a franchise that had shown this much "betterment" in 2 years, I'd be thrilled. I'm sure Ted is.

You are alone here. There is a reason for that. You are wrong.....period.
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
30,496
14,449
I think RS and I have been some of the most anti-gmgm posters in message board history. If things to off the rails for gmBm then you can expect the same. But 2 years in declaring things a disaster or more of the same, after all the moves he's made, the return to competitiveness, and the transparency? Pffft. Come on. It's armchair QBing with massive amounts of hindsight and nitpicking.

Give it another year, per the window they set.
 

twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
13,704
14,598
Yep, didn't notice any problem with our lack of net presence or work effort below the goal line and along the boards during the playoffs with Brouwer, etc (Ward), etc (Fehr) all left.

Ward was the only one of those 3 that was a big loss. Brouwer was brutal in the playoffs with Washington and Fehr wasn't really any better.
 

third man in

Registered User
Jul 27, 2007
4,507
1,204
Maryland
Ward was the only one of those 3 that was a big loss. Brouwer was brutal in the playoffs with Washington and Fehr wasn't really any better.

And Bmac seemed regretful that he couldn't extend Ward probably because he had 4.5 mil 4th liner Laich. Having Ward and a real 3C not Richards and we would have likely moved past the Pens.
 

SpinningEdge

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
7,719
3,492
Fairfax, VA
There is so much one sided anger here, it's pretty much useless to debate you. You went to be angry, so you are. Have at it. But frankly:

-All 2nd round losses are not created equal. How often did the Caps lose to the SC winner in George's 17 yr tenure? Competitively? I see Pitts in 2009. (Did Tampa win one of the years that we lost to them?). The 98 team was Poile's, but you can count it. So at best 3 times in 17 years. GMBM's teams lost to SC finalist in their hardest series, this year. So one in 2. Huh. Many people were saying -- before the Pens series -- that the winner had a great chance to win it all. That was the quality of the opponents... And look what happened.

-George had rookie coaches, for 17 years. Brian hired Trotz. About as opposite a rookie as can be.

-George thought defensemen meant adding guys like Kundratek and Corvo. Brian added a guy to our top pair (either Niskanen or Orpik, take your pick depending on the year).

-George make "hockey trades" once every 3-4 years. Brian did it in 15mo with Oshie for Brouwer. Huh.

-you blather on about George's draft picks being core of the team (Mahoney's BPA), and that continue to happen under Brian, yet somehow it's bad for Brian and good for George?

-again, you are whining for the sakes of it, as I've stared before. Brian has had TWO freaking years. That's all he's had to turn a floundering rudderless franchise that missed the playoffs into a juggernaut. This season is HUGE for the team, as they are in year 3 of his regime. Each year has been progress. George had 17 freaking years. To try and compare the 2 regimes is outlandish, for a variety of reasons. To actually say they are the same is moronic, and it's all based on the Pens series loss.

Any businessman would see the progress. It's obvious. If I owned a franchise that had shown this much "betterment" in 2 years, I'd be thrilled. I'm sure Ted is.

You are alone here. There is a reason for that. You are wrong.....period.

For one, I'm not alone here. There's a lot of people who agree that making 3rd and 4th line moves/tweaking the roster barely isn't enough.

Two, Trotz wasn't hired by GMBM. Trotz was hired by Dick/Ted same time or before GMBM. I don't think Brian had much/any say in Trotz.

Third - the core is the same going into year three. Yes, it's a good core - but a core that has had TONS of playoff failures. I never said break it up - I've been saying they need to add to it, which they haven't done at all.

If you look at roster from two seasons ago - GMBM's first year - you could argue this years roster is actually weaker. Chimera, Ward, and Fehr were one of/if not top line in NHL. This past year they had Richards do nothing on it in the playoffs and right now have Eller who can't create for others, Wilson who may not do anything offensively, and a guy they're in their second year of arbitration with.

Caps are in same position this year as last year and many years before that.... It's up to the top guys to carry the load or Caps have no change. Why they haven't added a big time top guy while other WINNING organizations do is mind blowing.

People can like GMBM all they like. He's got a great roster top to bottom that will do great in October, November, and Decemeber. When it comes to April and May though it's the same damn guys teams have to worry about and contain in a 7 game series that beats us - exactly the same game plan as when McPhee was here. Over a 7 game series against a good team the opponent knows our bottom 6 will do nothing consistently to worry about and unless out top lines play in god mode, Caps won't win 4 of 7 against a good team. History has proven that. Last 100 playoff games Caps have avg'd 2 goals per game and have never been in the top half of playoff scoring for teams.

Holtby with the way he has played (under .500 with record gaa and save percentage) should have had more support by now. Yet the new GM has done nothing to give Caps a difference maker that really makes you think "Yepp, this guy will help us score 3 goals per game now instead of 2!). It's embarrassing and a complete fail by the front office.

If Caps get Kessel like Pitt did - they probably win. Pitt made the move for a big time difference maker and it was (imagine this) a difference maker.

Caps have made zero difference makers at all this offseason that shows there will be any difference making results. They made no difference making moves in-season last year. Ovi has performed fine in playoffs and Holtby has been all time great. Not working with that to have success & make. Big move to get over he hump is a huge fail by Caps front office.

GMBM was under GMGM for a decade too. Can't just let him off the hook like he hasn't been a part of the failure of a front office Caps have had for way too long.

Roster two years ago had green and Gleason on 3rd line. That line led NHL basically in goals against per 60. It was great. This year 3rd line sucked and Orlov, Schmidt, and Weber cost the Caps games. The bottom 6 with Winnik and Richards added did nothing too except give the Caps no scoring depth.

Caps rely on the top guys. Always have - and seem to always will under this front office. So if they're going to rely on the top guys - then get more top guys that are top guy caliber players. Rotating schmidts, Webers, chimera's, eller's, Lattas, and connollys and expecting caps to all of a sudden go from 1 playoff series win to 4 is what's "moronic" ;)
 
Last edited:

Stewie G

Needed more hitting!
Oct 19, 2009
2,893
5
Did I just imagine the Oshie trade and the Williams signing?

I think (hope) you had a typo referring to Chimera, Ward, and Fehr as one of the top 3rd lines in the league, but that did not last forever, despite Pierre regurgitating it every chance he got.

Kuznetsov, although not acquired via trade, was a difference maker, but fell flat in the playoffs.

The Caps have some big raises coming soon, so it isn't surprising they haven't added a difference maker. Those guys cost money and they aren't getting one trading Orpik.

It's like you've completed ignored all of the good moves he's made.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->