Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXIII

[g00n]

Yup.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2082547&page=21

Click to read more...

 

[usiel]

Can there be a moratorium on Orpik talk for a week?

 

[g00n]

Can there be a moratorium on Orpik talk for a week?

Seriously. We have the draft and free agency coming up. And we're pulling hair over some fantasy buyout idea.

How many buyouts have there been in the NHL?

 

[Hivemind]

How many buyouts have there been in the NHL?

Two in the past week alone (Umberger, Cowen).

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

2....and a half

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Can there be a moratorium on Orpik talk for a week?

I was thinking till next summer.

 

[Langway]

Can there be a moratorium on Orpik talk for a week?

Yo dawg, I heard you like Orpik so I put some Orpik on your Orpik so you can Orpik while you Orpik.

 

[Devil Dancer]

Two in the past week alone (Umberger, Cowen).

If the Caps didn't buy out Laich I'm not sure they'll ever buy anyone out.

 

[twabby]

I'll be very disappointed if the Caps go with a bottom of the barrel replacement at 3C. Swing for the fences.

 

[Hivemind]

If the Caps didn't buy out Laich I'm not sure they'll ever buy anyone out.

They did use a compliance buyout on Jeff Schultz and bought out Tyler Sloan after he requested a trade. Obviously both of those are relatively minor, though.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I've seen a few mock expansion drafts where Orpik gets picked because the spending floor. It would be a massive misplay to buy him out before we get out of cap jail free card.

Also I hope GMSM can work a sweet heart deal with alzner or Oshie to sign their extensions after the expansion draft.


Both these things are very possible and would be huge to keeping the roster together and being able to improve it.

 

[Efactor]

Andrew Shaw for 3C
Mojo for solid return of assets

 

[txpd]

I'll be very disappointed if the Caps go with a bottom of the barrel replacement at 3C. Swing for the fences.

what is your def of the fences?

 

[g00n]

Two in the past week alone (Umberger, Cowen).

Ok. Wow! This past week alone! Which sounds dramatic but of course the truth is more complicated than that, since the buyout period just started, which means we'll see a few now and then nothing for the rest of the year. So two this season, and they're not comparable to Orpik.

Umberger was not even playing, and they bought out his final year. His trade value was probably negative.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2016/6/16/11954630/philadelphia-flyers-will-buy-out-r-j-umberger

Plus, it's Hextall. Not exactly known for shrewd moves overall.


Cowen is also in his final year, and has a backloaded contract with a rebuilding team (also, it's the Leafs, who need to shed players and turn over the roster quite a bit for their rebuild)

A buyout of Cowen will provide an unusual benefit to Toronto due to the fact that the contract was backloaded. The salary in the final year of the blueliner’s four-year, $12.4 Million deal is $1.4 Million more than the $3.1 Million cap hit, which will give the Leafs a $650,000 credit on the cap for next season and a $750,000 hit in 2017-18.

It is unknown whether GM Lou Lamoriello will use the buyout option on other players in an effort to further the club’s transition.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Mike-Augello/Cowen-To-Be-Cut-Loose-As-Buyout-Bonanza-Begins/120/77548


So maybe it should be spelled out: how often do teams buy out players like Orpik during a Cup window? How many clearly comparable buyouts have there been? Because that's what matters most in any discussion of the viability of such a move.

They did use a compliance buyout on Jeff Schultz and bought out Tyler Sloan after he requested a trade. Obviously both of those are relatively minor, though.

iirc the Schultz buyout was part of a reduced cap penalty phase following the ratification of a new CBA? That buyout probably wouldn't have happened if not for that added incentive, imo.

 

[twabby]

what is your def of the fences?

Someone like Frans Nielsen or David Backes (though I'm weary of Backes breaking down in a few years, he'd still be a great 3C IMO). Maybe pull off a trade for someone of a similar caliber, I don't really have any names in the trade market.

Not swinging for the fences would be like David Legwand or Matt Cullen, or sticking with Mojo.

 

[txpd]

Backes will cost Backstrom money. That ain't gonna happen

 

[Hivemind]

g00n, you asked a question and I answered. No reason to get salty. Shifting the goalposts to be more relevant is fine.

Plus, it's Hextall. Not exactly known for shrewd moves overall.

Are you confusing Hextall with Holmgren? Most Flyers fans are rather satisfied with Hextall, and he's been a rather significant departure from Holmgren's style. The only real eye popping deal Hextall has made was the Jake Voracek contract. The contracts for MacDonald, Lecavalier, and Giroux were all signed under Holmgren's tenure.

So maybe it should be spelled out: how often do teams buy out players like Orpik during a Cup window? How many clearly comparable buyouts have there been? Because that's what matters most in any discussion of the viability of such a move.

Chris Drury
Mark Parrish
Vinny Prospal
Alexi Yashin
Bill Guerin

Keep in mind where the salary cap was historically
The availability of compliance buyouts also saved quite a few franchises from terrible contracts they would have likely had to either buyout or pay significantly to unload (Lecavalier, Bryzgalov, Brad Richards, DiPietro, Redden). Had those not been available, there would have been more names on this list.

Then there was also Mike Richards' weird scenario last off-season. If the Capitals can catch He Who Shall Not Be Named smuggling painkillers across the border, I'm all for terminating his contract that way.

iirc the Schultz buyout was part of a reduced cap penalty phase following the ratification of a new CBA? That buyout probably wouldn't have happened if not for that added incentive, imo.

Thus why I specified he was a compliance buyout.

 

[RandyHolt]

Circling back to previous posts, if Niskanen is a bargain at 5.75, at what price is he fairly paid? And, over paid for the sake of discussion.

Is he worth every penny of 7, 7.5, 8?

I like the player, I just want to argue over something petty and unorpiky.

 

[Hivemind]

I would neither call him a bargain or and overpayment. I think $5.75M is pretty fairly paid for his current skillset. We'll see how things change in the last 5 years of his deal.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Alzner and Oshie

So, you'd like to have them signed before 7/1/17.

In a perfect world, it happens before hand, and the team announces it post expansion draft. If for some reason the Vegas team selects either player, then they sit tight til 7/1 and then sign as FA's with the Caps.

That would be the ideal situation, as it would allow the team to protect 2 added players, while still keeping the team intact. Doing so with Williams would be terrific too.

Obviously there are a lot of potential issues with that plan (once a player gets to FA, anything is possible....so you'd really need to have some trust between player and team...which is hard to predict), so the safe route is to lock them up during the course of this season.

The team has a lot of hard choices coming up thanks to the expansion scenario. All starts this weekend (MaJo, Orlov).

 

[Ridley Simon]

Circling back to previous posts, if Niskanen is a bargain at 5.75, at what price is he fairly paid? And, over paid for the sake of discussion.

Is he worth every penny of 7, 7.5, 8?

I like the player, I just want to argue over something petty and unorpiky.

When looking at his play the past 2 seasons, I don't think you'd see a lot of people being upset with him, if his salary was up to 1m higher. 7m is too high, but even 6.75 wouldn't seem terrible. 6.25 or 6.5 would be fair. Hence why I think 5.75...so far...has been a bargain.

If Cap continues to rise, and more d-men slot into 6-7m pay grades, then it will become moreso (again, based on current play)

 

[Hivemind]

For any UFA shenanigans in relation to the expansion draft, it's a rather tight window. Teams have to submit their protection list by June 20, 2017. Vegas announces selections on June 21. Free agents can begin talking to other teams around June 25*. Free agency officially opens July 1*.

Basically a three day window between knowing the player won't be selected by Vegas and when that player can start talking with other teams.



*Based on this year's date

 

[g00n]

g00n, you asked a question and I answered. No reason to get salty. Shifting the goalposts to be more relevant is fine.


Are you confusing Hextall with Holmgren? Most Flyers fans are rather satisfied with Hextall, and he's been a rather significant departure from Holmgren's style. The only real eye popping deal Hextall has made was the Jake Voracek contract. The contracts for MacDonald, Lecavalier, and Giroux were all signed under Holmgren's tenure.




Chris Drury
Mark Parrish
Vinny Prospal
Alexi Yashin
Bill Guerin

Keep in mind where the salary cap was historically
The availability of compliance buyouts also saved quite a few franchises from terrible contracts they would have likely had to either buyout or pay significantly to unload (Lecavalier, Bryzgalov, Brad Richards, DiPietro, Redden). Had those not been available, there would have been more names on this list.

Then there was also Mike Richards' weird scenario last off-season. If the Capitals can catch He Who Shall Not Be Named smuggling painkillers across the border, I'm all for terminating his contract that way.


Thus why I specified he was a compliance buyout.

Well we're clearly talking about Orpik (over and over) so I guess I incorrectly assumed we'd be talking about comparables and relevant issues instead of taking the chance to frame a "just the facts" answer in the best light possible for your argument.

"Salty" is so main boards. We've got more class than that.

 

[Ridley Simon]

For any UFA shenanigans in relation to the expansion draft, it's a rather tight window. Teams have to submit their protection list by June 20, 2017. Vegas announces selections on June 21. Free agents can begin talking to other teams around June 25*. Free agency officially opens July 1*.

Basically a three day window between knowing the player won't be selected by Vegas and when that player can start talking with other teams.



*Based on this year's date

What's to prevent a verbal agreement between our player and team..in say March, but not announced and executed until June 22nd.

 

[Hivemind]

What's to prevent a verbal agreement between our player and team..in say March, but not announced and executed until June 22nd.

The obvious answer is that verbal agreements aren't official SPCs (standard player contracts), and are likely non-binding in the eyes of the NHL as a result. Leaves the potential for one side or the other to get cold feet, which I doubt either side would be very happy about.


I'm unsure if there's more specific measures in the CBA to make such a practice explicitly illegal, though. You'd have to ask someone with a more intimate knowledge of the CBA. This could be a good topic for the BoH subforum.