Patriots/NFL Wednesday AFTERNOON Football???????

[CDJ]

I think with regards to Bill, you can judge him two different ways. There's Bill the coach that gets the most out of even sub par players and has done a masterful job over the 20+ years he's been here. Then there's Bill the GM, and that track record is far more spotty and easily questioned. I try to keep the separate because it's not fair to cloud his coaching record with his drafting one and vice versa. It's also not an insult to say he's a far better coach than he is a GM. Those are two very different jobs, and very few in the history of the league were good at both.

it’s an unquestionable facts he’s a better coach than he is a GM, and that does cover up some of his gaffes (as has Brady in the past and vice versa)

I just don’t think he makes more gaffes than most GMs across the league. I think he’s probably like the #1 coach and a top 1/3 GM. This is just a tough year, and it’s tough for a number of reasons that couldn’t really be avoided.

Something that needs to be factored into his drafting is where he’s been picking for 20 years. I recently saw a PFF scale rating teams drafting and they are towards the bottom in total value but also they were dead last in expected value iirc. He’s a weird drafter- I feel like he misses early more than most and hits late more than most as well. I wouldn’t necessarily call him a bad drafter

 

[LSCII]

it’s an unquestionable facts he’s a better coach than he is a GM, and that does cover up some of his gaffes (as has Brady in the past and vice versa)

I just don’t think he makes more gaffes than most GMs across the league. I think he’s probably like the #1 coach and a top 1/3 GM. This is just a tough year, and it’s tough for a number of reasons that couldn’t really be avoided.

Every GM in every sports league makes mistakes. It's just the nature of the position. The issue for him though is that most die hard Pats fans don't pay attention to the mistakes the rest of the GMs make since it's not their team. His mistakes are also magnified because of his incredible coaching ability. So people assume bc he's a great coach, he'd also be a great GM. In all honesty, he's a good GM, but they've missed on a lot of high profile picks lately, and memories are short. If you look at his overall draft history, he's done far better than most. He's had some big misses too, but that's the draft in general. The value he finds later in the draft is a huge reason why they win year in and year out.

 

[Troublesome 85]

Only 2 things upset me about these last 20 years

1. last philly SB. Team should have won.
2. Moss not getting a ring

 

[CDJ]

Only 2 things upset me about these last 20 years

1. last philly SB. Team should have won.
2. Moss not getting a ring

Sanchez beating us twice was tough but then he ate his lineman’s butt and all was remedied

 

[LSCII]

Sanchez beating us twice was tough but then he ate his lineman’s butt and all was remedied

The butt fumble is still the funniest things he ever did...

 

[Troublesome 85]

Sanchez beating us twice was tough but then he ate his lineman’s butt and all was remedied

Perhaps Im wrong but I think if Sanchez was on another team he would have been successful or maybe just another usc QB

 

[CDJ]

Perhaps Im wrong but I think if Sanchez was on another team he would have been successful or maybe just another usc QB

he probably could have been, that franchise is toxic

 

[McGarnagle]

Mark Sanchez was not good.

The 2009-2011 Jets had a tremendous offensive line, Ladanian Tomlinson and Shonn Greene in the backfield, Braylon Edwards and Santonio Holmes at wideout, and a decent TE in Keller. Maybe less depth overall (Cotchery as the #3 was good but not great), but high end talent out the ass. And his TE:INT ratio was downright embarrassing.

Honestly his whole gameplan for moving the ball downfield seemed to be to pass it deep towards wherever Braylon Edwards was then hope he either caught it or drew a DPI.

Dude could not handle the pro game as a pocket passer, and didn't even run the ball as much as he was supposed to coming out of USC. He got carried to two AFC Title games by his surrounding cast and it's the only reason he hung around the league so long as a journeyman in Philly and Dallas.

If he had a better offensive coordinator than Brian Schottenheimer, could he have developed? I know you can't disprove a negative, but he never showed anything in the league that would indicate that he could've done better than he did.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Only 2 things upset me about these last 20 years

1. last philly SB. Team should have won.
2. Moss not getting a ring

Hmm I remember something happening in that Philly game...can't put my finger on it

Why do we care about Moss not getting a ring?

 

[Tbaybruin]

So you can't ask what has gone wrong in the draft in recent years? That's absurd. Tom Curran is a fair reporter. It's not like he was calling for Bill's job.

What’s to answer. Everybody know the answer why ask it?

 

[LSCII]

What’s to answer. Everybody know the answer why ask it?

Why not ask it? The team and roster has bottomed out over the last 2 seasons with clearly not having enough talent. As the coach and the GM, he gets the hard questions. I mean shit, BB recently pointed to the cap issues as a reason why the roster isn't as talented as he wants. Are people supposed to give him a pass on that statement just because they know his drafting has been sub par the last few drafts?

 

[JRull86]

Mark Sanchez was not good.

The 2009-2011 Jets had a tremendous offensive line, Ladanian Tomlinson and Shonn Greene in the backfield, Braylon Edwards and Santonio Holmes at wideout, and a decent TE in Keller. Maybe less depth overall (Cotchery as the #3 was good but not great), but high end talent out the ass. And his TE:INT ratio was downright embarrassing.

Honestly his whole gameplan for moving the ball downfield seemed to be to pass it deep towards wherever Braylon Edwards was then hope he either caught it or drew a DPI.

Dude could not handle the pro game as a pocket passer, and didn't even run the ball as much as he was supposed to coming out of USC. He got carried to two AFC Title games by his surrounding cast and it's the only reason he hung around the league so long as a journeyman in Philly and Dallas.

If he had a better offensive coordinator than Brian Schottenheimer, could he have developed? I know you can't disprove a negative, but he never showed anything in the league that would indicate that he could've done better than he did.

Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl with this mentality.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Why not ask it? The team and roster has bottomed out over the last 2 seasons with clearly not having enough talent. As the coach and the GM, he gets the hard questions. I mean shit, BB recently pointed to the cap issues as a reason why the roster isn't as talented as he wants. Are people supposed to give him a pass on that statement just because they know his drafting has been sub par the last few drafts?

Bill and Arians have one thing in common Ive noticed this year. Both are passing the buck when it comes to tough questions and when there is blame to be assigned

 

[CDJ]

Bill and Arians have one thing in common Ive noticed this year. Both are passing the buck when it comes to tough questions and when there is blame to be assigned

please show me where Bill threw a player under the bus. I have a feeling I will be waiting for a long time


If anything he’s doing the opposite by being defensive over his last couple drafts. The guys are still on the roster

I know, I know...doesn’t fit your narrative

 

[KrejciMVP]

please show me where Bill threw a player under the bus. I have a feeling I will be waiting for a long time


If anything he’s doing the opposite by being defensive over his last couple drafts. The guys are still on the roster

I know, I know...doesn’t fit your narrative

Bill hasn't blamed any players but id say he leads the league in excuses for the bad start. He created these conditions and is responsible for this record. What happened to do your job. Ive never uttered a criticism of bill in 20 years till now

 

[CDJ]

I have a hard time with the “his drafting sucks!” narrative when his 6th rounder this year has played like an all pro at 2 different positions and has probably been the best offensive lineman on the team

Duke Dawson was his worst pick in recent years, by far imo. Harry has been a miss relative to his peers but I’m not ready to write him off.


Has he been the best drafter? Far from it. I think my pick goes to John Lynch or Mike Mayock in recent years (although Mayock himself has had immediate gaffes like Lynn Bowden). But I think Bill is fine at drafting and too much is being made of “Bill the GM can’t draft”. Covid has decimated the teams depth on defense. They’ve got tons of dead cap from guys not there on offense. It’s just a fact. We can act like it’s an excuse but it kinda is what it is. This year was going to be tough- it didn’t seem that way the first few weeks and that may have have set false expectations. But realistically it was a new QB coming into a complicated scheme with no offseason/preseason and when you couple that with covid withdrawals/dead money/personnel loss then you have a pretty nice recipe for failure

 

[CDJ]

Cards' Hopkins: WRs should get yards for DPI


I agree with him. Thoughts?


Also potential future QB Desmond Ridder is having a great game on ESPN2 for cincy


College football has become exciting to me for the first time in awhile lol. We’ve got some QBs to watch


Lawrence
Fields
Lance (although I do not think he’s playing right now)
Wilson
Trask
Ridder
Jones

even guys like Kellen Mond at Texas AM are worth watching. Georgia transfer Jamie Newman (who opted out of the season) is another name. Mac Jones has the Saban connection with BB

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Cards' Hopkins: WRs should get yards for DPI


I agree with him. Thoughts?


Also potential future QB Desmond Ridder is having a great game on ESPN2 for cincy


College football has become exciting to me for the first time in awhile lol. We’ve got some QBs to watch


Lawrence
Fields
Lance (although I do not think he’s playing right now)
Wilson
Trask
Ridder
Jones

even guys like Kellen Mond at Texas AM are worth watching. Georgia transfer Jamie Newman (who opted out of the season) is another name. Mac Jones has the Saban connection with BB

No way. When balls are underthrown WRs always draw flags going back for the ball. Most PI calls aren't blatant. Theres a reason they never overturn the call its always subjective.

I don't mind Ridder. There are no sure things after the top 2. If they like Wilson I'm OK with him too. Lance scares me. No to Trask and Jones.

I like D'Erik King I think he can do what Kyler and Lamar do to some degree. Forget whether hes as good as them. You can compare him to them with his quickness. Not many guys like that will be available each year.

Ehlinger is strong enough to handle getting hit and would be a good backup for Cam if they decide best option is 2 more years of Newton with decent WRs.

 

[CDJ]

No way. When balls are underthrown WRs always draw flags going back for the ball. Most PI calls aren't blatant. Theres a reason they never overturn the call its always subjective.

I don't mind Ridder. There are no sure things after the top 2. If they like Wilson I'm OK with him too. Lance scares me. No to Trask and Jones.

I like D'Erik King I think he can do what Kyler and Lamar do to some degree. Forget whether hes as good as them. You can compare him to them with his quickness. Not many guys like that will be available each year.

Ehlinger is strong enough to handle getting hit and would be a good backup for Cam if they decide best option is 2 more years of Newton with decent WRs.

I like King a lot too, he lit it up against NC


Starting to really like Wilson

 

[Johnnyduke]

Further down the line, Phil Jurkovec would be one to watch. Only a redshirt sophomore so at least another year to go but he has great mobility and can make all the throws. Trying to compare him to someone, Roethlisberger comes to mind but he's more athletic than Big Ben.

 

[Johnnyduke]

I actually like the college PI rule over the NFL. I could have sworn Bill has said that at one time. I hate the spot foul rule on what a lot of times is a ticky tack call.

 

[LSCII]

Cards' Hopkins: WRs should get yards for DPI


I agree with him. Thoughts?


Also potential future QB Desmond Ridder is having a great game on ESPN2 for cincy


College football has become exciting to me for the first time in awhile lol. We’ve got some QBs to watch


Lawrence
Fields
Lance (although I do not think he’s playing right now)
Wilson
Trask
Ridder
Jones

even guys like Kellen Mond at Texas AM are worth watching. Georgia transfer Jamie Newman (who opted out of the season) is another name. Mac Jones has the Saban connection with BB

If they wanted to track it as a stat by itself, I'm fine with that. Like PI calls generated and X amount of yards due to that, but including it in receiving stats would skew all the numbers and give players of today extra yards that guys in the past didn't get to count. So imagine someone coming up and breaking Rice's record and having it be due to including PI numbers? Yikes. Not a fan of that in the least. But again, tracking it as it's own separate stat? Sure thing.

 

[LSCII]

I actually like the college PI rule over the NFL. I could have sworn Bill has said that at one time. I hate the spot foul rule on what a lot of times is a ticky tack call.

I have no issue with PI and how it's called in the pro game. If someone runs a 30 yard out, and draws a call, the inference is that the team would have gotten those yards if not for the foul. So giving teams a 10 yard penalty would give the defense motivation to play all deep balls and not care about PI since they'd only be giving up 10 yards. It would literally wreck the integrity of the game, IMO. Having it called the way it is now at least forces the defensive player to try and play it honest and straight up because the call is punitive. If you give it a 10 yard max, no reason why you wouldn't mug a guy every time down field.

 

[Johnnyduke]

I understand that argument but in watching a lot of college football it doesn't really end up happening that way. By and large you don't see open guys being tackled down the field to prevent a catch. But I do get that fear.

 

[GabeTravels]

Make it a penalty that can be called both ways... Almost like the old Face Mask rule.

15 yard penalty if the receiver wasn't free and clear. Spot foul if they were.