AAA 2013 Line-up Assassination Thread

BubbaBoot

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Oct 19, 2003
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I know Flett is here for more reasons other than just scoring (and I also know how hard it is to get a scoring player with intangibles to flank our one dimensional centers); you basically have him to be your MLD version of Keith Crowder, but I think he’s lacking in a big way. He did have one excellent season but beyond that, was always scoring 30-45 points. He didn’t kill that many penalties so he’s not a defensive stud from what I can tell, and I’ve always had the impression his toughness gets overrated (maybe it’s the beard?) – he didn’t post high PIM totals and had 14 fights in his 951-game NHL/WHA career. I don’t get the impression he’s terrible in any one area, but I don’t think he’s got the upside to put on a 1st line even as a complementary guy, and I don’t think he’s got quite the complementary skills to overlook his offense.
Flett is a character guy with decent skills. 3 20+ goal seasons and another with 43, on some not so good teams also. He had solid WHA stats. He was known to be tough but not really a fighter, like I said a character guy who played if fairly clean. What stood out was his 9 SH goals also....obviously he had some wheels and a decent shout/moves. While researching him I thought he was a bit underrated myself. Like the Turk, Derek Sanderson, I wonder how good he could've been if he hadn't partied as hard as he did.

Mishakov is in quite the same boat – let me explain. He seemed to be an OK finisher but both internationally and domestically his assist stats were brutal, leading to offensive stats that were very underwhelming. Although he did have three 7+ point international tournaments, this was when the Soviets were making a mockery of the world championships and their leading scorers had 14, 21, and 19 points. Mishakov peaked at 12th in scoring in the 1970 tourney, tied for 7th on his own team. Domestically he had seasons in 8th and 10th in points, just before the caliber of the league took off. So I have serious doubts about his offensive chops. However, I realize that you probably have him for similar reasons that you have Flett – he has a bit of a reputation as a combative Soviet. That said, I must question whether that reputation stems entirely from one fight at the Summit Series. In the SS, he earned almost half of his career international PIM total even though that was just 6 of his 43 international games. In the Soviet league, he had a career high of 24 PIMs and that didn’t even put him past the halfway mark in the league, and that was the most PIMs he ever had. (I’m not saying PIMs are a good thing necessarily, just that they at least serve as evidence of combativeness) So Gee is going to really have to carry this line. At worst, these two wingers are still what I’d class as “workmanlike†and could get the job done.
Again, this is the AAA, the deficiencies will be more pronounced. Better over-all players have been picked and quite frankly, I like "character" guys. He's not for being ferocious and yes, very workman-like, especially on the PK....and as was noted on his bio, "20th All-Time among Soviets in goals/game". That's a pretty good stat in my eyes, especially since most of the guys in the top 25 have been already selected in previous drafts and/or are from earlier eras.

Honestly, while they are studs with super sharp skills, I have no problem with this 1st line, I think they set the tone for what I want out of these guys. Really, the flaws of the players from this draft, (and on down) are more pronounced and instead of looking for that massive skill set you trend to look at good skill sets from guys that wion;'t hurt you with what they don't excel in.

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The second line contains a trio of players I unfortunately have to harp on a bit. Anisin has a decent and long international career. And he DID peak as a USSR leading scorer and that’s worth noting. BUT, aside from that, he never again finished in the top-10 in Soviet league scoring, or in an international tournament. If we’re trying to compare him to NHL players where does that leave him?
All of the Soviet and damn near all of the Euro and North American CTRs of note have been taken by now, so there will be deficiencies. This is supposed to have been the "Golden Era" for Soviet hockey and he still is in the middle of the pack and stands out among a lot of other CTRs from the era that are/were available.

Seriously, a 2nd or 3rd line Soviet CTR, very creative from all accounts, that's flirting among the top 10 scorers in the Soviet League and International competition is better than most of the same ilk in other eras, eh?

A quick glance through some of the years he played showed him to be top 3rd or 4th among his position in the Soviet League, with all, (save one, whom I'm happy he survived and plan to pick immediately in the AA draft), of the other CTRs pretty much already picked in the ATD and MLD drafts..... and a significant number of wingers were long to boot.

In the 3 WCs of which he had significant playing time, he ranked 5th / 9th / 3rd in scoring among the CTRs. Not too shabby, especially considering most of the others in the top 10 have been long gone in the ATD and MLD drafts also.

Even near the end of his Soviet career, where he was the 2nd line CTR for Spartak Moscow, he scored 19 points. But take into consideration that season had 10 CTRs, between the #6 through the #15 scorers who were all between 23 and 18 points....he still skated with them.

As for Audette and Huselius, there’s not much to say other than they were very *average second line players who tended to ride better linemates, and their offensive figures are surely nothing special for AAA 2nd liners. They both are better scorers than a number of players such as Ysebaert, Murray Balfour, Matt Moulson… but they don’t have the other skills these players have and that, too, is a concern because this 2nd line is probably as one-dimensional as it gets. Swapping one of these wingers with the first line would probably be a good thing because then at least you get one good workmanlike guy on each line.
I agree with you on how one-dimensional this 2nd line is and I didn't realize until after the fact, which is the reason why I concentrated hard on trying to make my 3rd and 4th lines a little more well rounded than just the usual 3rd line checking / 4th line energy roles.

Huselius has 6 20+ goals seasons and a 30+ goal season. He's got talent, good on his skates and a bit of a sniper mentality/skill set....but he is a bit of a loose cannon and head case. His international and Swedish numbers are pretty good also and he can play either wing.

Audette has 4 20+ goal seasons and 2 30+ goal scoring seasons. He's actually tougher than you give him credit for and was always near the net, especially during PP's where t's noted he would dive into the crease area fray.

The line is smallish / not so gritty overall at first appearances so I'll proabably be giving more TOI to the 3rd and 4th lines to compensate and use these guys more on PP play.

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The third line has good wings. You may know I’m not a huge Franzen fan, but he did drop to a more reasonable spot this year, and he CAN score in the playoffs. Walker’s even better. I had this guy on my radar for a long time and just kept thinking of good reasons to take other players. I actually did give good thought to whether I wanted him over Plett on the 4th line. Super solid player.
These guys are unheralded IMO. Yeah Franzen ain't a star on a team of stars, (detroit), but I won't hold that against him. Walker on a higher profile team/city would be touted higher than he has. He really is a nose dirty guy who also has 3 20+ goal seasons.

Jokinen? I’m not sure why you took him. He’s not close to the first guy I’d think of for offense and he’s not close to the first guy I’d think of for defense either. And especially not toughness. I’d consider him as a possible spare due to his versatility, but when guys like DeBlois, Cooke, Boutette, Kevin Miller, Havlat, Murphy and Anderson are available it’s a bit of a stretch to even put him there. Also, why is he wearing a letter? What’s his leadership resume? I am asking because I honestly don’t know.
I pondered him mightily myself but I finally went with what I know:
- he's an infuriating SOB. yeah, he dives on occasion but he draws a buttload of penalties.
- he can play all 3 forward positions.
- he was used on the #1 PK unit when he was with Carolina, where also had his best offensive year too.
- the book says he's soft by NHL standards. I don't believe that. Everytime I see him he's getting knocked about but keeps on coming.
- he wore both the C and the A as a Jr Finn and also wore the A in the last WC's. He was 12th overall in scoring and 3rd among the 4th place Finns, (canada was 5th, the Swedes 6th and the US 7th).
- Right now he's on a 30 goal pace season. He's 3rd in goals and 4th in scoring as a 3rd line LWer. I'm sure that he'll drop in production, but not effectiveness in other aspects of the game. I think he's a catalyst for a solid 3rd line.


4th line is super solid. I like Vic Lynn a lot. Poulin works. Herberts was an absolute steal where you got him, when you consider his scoring and Hart record. There’s reason to believe he was gritty too, but I with I had been able to substantiate that better in the past.
As I had mentioned to Hobnobs via some pm's a while ago, it's very hard to get a read on soem of the early guys, (as well as the Euros, especially in the PP / PK depts). I like the 4th line a lot....they may be a tad rowdy for some folks but I think they have the skill level to garner more minutes than your average 4th line does, much like the current Bruins 4th line. (Gee, can you guess who i try to model my teams after?)

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Cooper is your #1 defenseman in my eyes.
I iline my defensemen up in what is generally their natural position, not by value of position #...Cooper is a natural righty so I'm assuming he played the right side. This is how I determine my defensive pairs.

In fact, I have him as one of the finest defensemen in the draft.
SCHWING!!!!!

I often bristled at him earning MLD all-star votes and I think that’s fair, however, he fell quite a bit and the analysis I did on all these O6-era defensemen indicates he really shouldn’t have. In the ATD and first part of the MLD, I’d say we’ve all done a really good job of “sorting out†these players. Mainly because we have voting records to confirm how they were regarded in the hockey world. However, we have done a relatively poor job of sorting out the next tier. Forwards are easy because they have offensive numbers to compare – defensemen really don’t. Along the way we forgot that simply being in the O6 NHL meant something. My little analysis I did to compare these guys was, to my knowledge, the first quantitative and qualitative analysis of this tier of MLD defensemen and it was pretty eye-opening. Although somewhat simplistic (and isn’t any numerical analysis of O6 defenseman going to be simplistic?) it clearly demonstrates which defensemen were regarded highly enough by the hockey powers to hold down one of these exclusive jobs for an extended period, and it even looks at how strong the teams were that used these players. Cooper looks excellent by this measure, and will receive a high all-star vote from me.
Since I've started participating in these drafts I've learned a lot about players I'v enever known, their eras, etc....it has been a real eye opener. Cooper, who I knew nothing about, is now one of those guys that I wished I had seen play
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Romishevsky and Marjamaki are passable #2/3 guys.
Decent? Good PMDs are at a premium nowadays....especially those on the right side. These guys are more than decent in my eyes.
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The part about O6 defensemen cuts both ways, and as such, I see Dewsbury as your #4. And not a particularly strong one. He only played 5 seasons worth of NHL games, and he did it for abysmal teams, too. It’s fathomable that if he belonged to even an average NHL organization, that he might never have played a game for them. In comparison, Juzda looks like an absolute stud on the 3rd pair, and in fact might be the best player on any 3rd pairing in this draft. Sweeney is a completely stable 3rd pairing guy too. I always struggle with how to rate him but I am sure he won’t hurt a AAA 3rd pairing.
Again, I try to line up my defensemen as they would've probably played. Dewsbury was a natural lefty. Juzda, (who was my original #2), a natural righty. I don't know for sure but for the sake of their stick sides I am lining them up as such. I also have a tendency to try and match PMD's with a stay-at-home partner.

I know that Sweeney is a natural lefty but played the right when he was paired with Bourque. He was accused of riding Bourques coat tails but that's not a very fair assessment. I watched him for his entire career and he wasn't spectacular by any stretch of the imagination, just quietly efficient and he hit a LOT harder than his 5'10" frame would indicate. Being a Harvard boy you'd also think he was a smart player and you're right. He wasn't a blazer on his skates but he did have decent jump and played the angles very well. he was a #2/#3/ guy his entire career so being on the 3rd pairing with Juzda makes this a solid duo IMO.
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Johnston is an average AAA starter, Turek a below average backup. Not much more to say there.
There's a huge drop off ion talent and skill level. I think Johnston played very well for some abysmal Bruins teams, and at times even shone mightily during post-expansion.

The only thing bad I can say about Turek is he can be hot and cold.....he had some stellar seasons and when he was hot, he was white hot.


I have no idea how to rate Yurzinov; let’s just say he’s OK. O’Reilly is a guy I’d never even thought of taking in these things; not sure how much he helps, but the alternative was to take some mediocre player as a spare, right?
Not enough on Yurzinov to definitively judge but the company he kept....for as long as he did....and his resume.....

O'Reilly was a player's coiach so I'm playing the cold Soviet off the very human North American here.....O'Reilly is the epitome of a heart and soul guy who made himself a better player....and my team has a certain similarity more times than not.
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I like your spares collection. I advocated for Dandenault down in the 1900-2000 range, he surely doesn’t look as solid this high, but he does play two positions. Virta might be a little behind some other spare D. But Creighton is a stud for a spare center. I’m really intrigued by his 1400 career pro games. What if he was 10 years younger and was still NHL-caliber when the league expanded? What might his career have looked like?
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Recommendations: there are still better goalies than Turek out there; you might want to consider an add/drop. I’d also consider an add/drop on Jokinen as there are so many more useful players out there to center a 3rd line. (S.H, A.S, M.S, J.D, D.R, T.G, S.O, F.K, J.M….)
Utility men at both forward and defense, those that are more than competent, are very rare nowadays. Dandenault fits the bill of an emergency guy that can do well and not hurt you over an extended period time at this level.

Virta is a pure PMD, to be shuffled in and out of the lineup according to the opponents. He has some damn good numbers at every level so I don't feel to hesitant about him.

Creighton I thought seriously about as a 3rd line CTR but quite frankly this is all about the quandary I had mentioned....I have no idea how much PP / PK time the guy has had and how effective he was. I do know about Jokinen and they're better than I expected.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
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Regina, SK
Henning's one of the better 4th line defensive centres in this thing but he can chip in with some offense every now and then, solid pick.

Well I certainly hope so, but I'm not sure the numbers bear that out. He's got one of the weaker offensive resumes of the players in this draft. However, when you consider what he was able to do while a man short, and that he was a junior scoring star, I wonder how much of his weak NHL stats are situational. Still, any points I get from him will likely be a bonus and more generated by his wingers, who are both offensive stars for 4th liners.

Brisebois' a ? pick, not that he's a bad player but he's a bit of a sore thumb here on your 3rd pairing, I'd suggest maybe switching him and Reg Hamilton to give your team a great 3rd defensive pairing and a solid 2nd defensive pairing in Brisebois and Al Hamilton.[/B]

Don't think I can do that. Brisebois is a "pure offense guy" so it makes sense to have him with a pure defense guy. Al and Reg are both two-way guys with Al more offensive and Reg more defensive so I like the balance there, too.

I had Robertson as my starter in the AAA last year and he was celebrated as a good pick. He'll probably be the best backup in this draft, good pickup.

I have Brodeur ahead, but that's all.

When you have a guy like Mike Murphy left off your power play you know it's a good one.

Eh, Murphy's not really a star offensively. It's not like he's a must for a PP. I certainly could have put him on a PP unit to give it some net presence, like I did with Harris, but he was a must for the PK so in keeping with the theme of one special team per player, that's where he went.

thanks for the review man.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
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Regina, SK

Dawson City Nuggets
Head Coach: Claude Ruel


Sergei Mozyakin - Vladimir Ruzicka - Mark Napier
Matt Moulson - Josef Malecek - Lowell MacDonald
Martin Gelinas "A" - Matt Cullen - Eric Dazé
Pekka Arbelius - Lars Molin - Andreas Ambuhl
Rob Scuderi - Stephane Robidas "C"
Hugh Bolton - Dennis Kearns
Bryce Salvador "A"- Bobby Connors
Gilles Gilbert
Ron Tugnutt

PP1:
Matt Moulson - Vladimir Ruzicka - Mark Napier
Josef Malecek - Stephane Robidas

PP2:
Sergey Mozyakin - Matt Cullen - Eric Dazé
Dennis Kearns - Bobby Connors

PK1:
Matt Moulson - Lars Molin
Rob Scuderi - Stephane Robidas

PK2:
Matt Cullen - Andreas Ambuhl
Bryce Salvador - Dennis Kearns

Scratches:
Peter Skudra, G
Corby Adams, C
Andre Roy, LW


1916 or earlier : Horace Gaul
1917-1942 : Josef Malecek, Bobby Connors
1943-1965 : Corby Adams, Hugh Bolton
1966-1979 : Mark Napier, Dennis Kearns, Gilles Gilbert, Lars Molin
1980-1994 : Pekka Arbelius, Ron Tugnutt, Martin Gelinas, Vladimir Ruzicka,
1995-2004 : Eric Dazé, Peter Skudra, Andreas Ambuhl,
Current : Matt Cullen, Sergei Mozyakin, Rob Scuderi, Matt Moulson, Stephane Robidas, Bryce Salvador

--------------------------------

My first attempt at an ATD team, forgive me for how it pales in comparison to all the other rosters! Still a fun time, thanks to VanIslander and co. for a fun time! Definitely interested in co-GMing for the 2014 ATD

Congrats on completing your first draft, young squire.

It's really hard to say how good a 1st line AAA Mozyakin is. I wish we had some glimpse of him in the NHL so we could at least see if he was a 1st/2nd line talent or what. I don't want to hold not playing in the NHL against him too little, or too much. He might be the best winger here, or the worst. Ruzicka is a solid 1st liner who won't hurt you at all. And though Napier is on the low end for AAA top liners, he does belong. You didn't do too badly here.

Malecek is in the Zabrodsky boat for me. Not exactly sure how to rank him, but he "belongs". Moulson doesn't have an extensive resume yet, so he lags behind other scoring AAA wingers, but I'll say a few things for him. One, he's on his way. Two, although it's easy to criticize him as a Tavares product, he was never outscored that much by JT. Three, it hasn't been that long since the trade but his production hasn't been hurt yet. And four, he plays a unique brand of physical, extremely clean hockey. Lowell MacDonald is a very strong AAA 2nd line scorer, at least based on peak. Poor longevity. This isn't too bad a line, either.

Cullen is the type of guy who won't hurt you, but I don't know how much he'll help either. He's ok. Just kind of a "tweener" at this level without standout offense or defense. Gelinas is an outstanding bottom 6 forward who usually goes in the MLD. Daze is a pretty good offensive player for this level (above average for goals, horrible for assists) but I don't think he brings a heck of a lot for bottom-6 skills. Seems like the kind of guy you'd want as a scoring line forward or not at all. You've got average-to-good pieces here, but it feels like a bit of a mishmash.

I think the whole 4th line should ride the pine. Molin at least proved he could play in the NHL, but he wasn't very good there. Ambuhl was a fringe player even in the AHL, never mind NHL, and guys like Arbelius are a dime-a-dozen. Though I freely admit that sorting out non-ussr/cssr Euros from the 70s/80s gets to be tricky after the MLD level.

Kearns is probably your best all-around defenseman, and that's not good because he's more of a one-way player. He played a lot for those poor Vancouver teams, but he's a big reason poor Maniago faced so many shots. Still, it was him getting those big minutes for nearly a decade and not someone else. Bolton had an outstanding peak for this level but really poor career length due to injuries. He's the kind of guy who will require a good spare to spell him. Robidas is a clear #3. Another guy who was a #1 four times, but always for mediocre to bad teams in Dallas. He's a solid all-around player though, with a reasonable claim to a AAA roster spot. Scuderi is quite solid but a complete non-factor offensively. He's less potent than Brad Marsh, which I didn't even think possible! I think he's close to the level of reputation/respect that Marsh had, and if he can have another 500 games like his first 600 went, he'd likely be at a Marsh level all-time. Unfortunately, he's probably too old to ever do that so I wonder what his all-time legacy will be. Salvador's your #5 and you wondered why he had never been taken. The reason is that he's spent his whole career as a 3rd pairing player. He broke out at 35, the first time he ever had a 20 minute season, and he had an outstanding 21-game playoff. For 48 games since then, he's led a NJ defense corps that has been terrible. He does not have a resume worthy of an all-time draft. Worse players have been selected though... Connors is an interesting one; we've already talked about him. I'm not feeling it. Your 3rd pairing is going to get victimized.

Gilbert's not a very good starter (but not too far off from the others) and Tugnutt is a little lacking as a backup too. Good recovery pick, taking Gilles and getting skudra on the bench.

Well constructed PP units. i'm surprised you don't have Lowell MacDonald on there. Maybe Cullen's only there because someone needs to take faceoffs? If Daze or Mozyakin can play that role, then you can get Lowell on the PP, because he's far superior offensively. Also, did Malecek ever play the point? As for the PK, the only change I'd make is put someone on there over Moulson. literally anyone. because he never kills penalties at all. there`s gotta be someone else you can put there.

Ruel is a solid coach who deserves a AAA spot.

Your spares will be terribly outmatched if they ever see the ice. You have to hope no one gets injured because your regulars are decent players for the most part. However, since you have Bolton and Daze, it`s a practical certainty you`ll need to dress Roy and.... oh wait, who is your /7 defenseman? uh oh.

Best of luck!
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,132
Regina, SK
Pittsburgh Yellow Jackets

Coach: Terry Crisp
Assistant Coach: Mike Buckna

Alex Kaleta - Jozef Stumpel - Glen Murray
Morris Lukowich - Guy Chouinard - Ran McDonald
Jochen Hecht - Ron Schock (C) - Lucien DeBlois
Dan Maloney - Travis Zajac - Ryan Callahan (A)
Jim Conacher, Ric Seiling

Stew Evans (A) - Gord Murphy
Eric Brewer - Tom Bladon
Bob Trapp - Randy Manery
Bryan Watson

Gerry McNeil
Cesare Maniago

PP1
Kaleta-Stumpel-Murray
Chouinard-Bladon

PP2
Lukowich-Schock-McDonald
Murphy-Manery

PK1
Schock-Hecht
Evans-Brewer

PK2
Zajac-Callahan
Trapp-Murphy

I'm not going to go as far as to say I'm scared of this lineup.... but I'm definitely concerned. Gravely concerned. You've done very well for yourself here.

Stumpel is another one of those 1st line centers who is more or less in the same class. I might devalue his point totals just a bit because he had so fewer goals than most of those other guys, but that may be nitpicking. Ahh hell, I'm gonna have to nitpick in this review, may as well acknowledge that right now. Kaleta's OK for a first liner but nothing special. He's behind Sorrell and Robinson, to use a couple of comparisons from the O6. But ahead of Liscombe. Murray's a good goal scorer. Great, actually. And I want to punish him for clearly benefiting from Joe Thornton. But I think we already have by letting him fall down here. He's a great player here. Big and strong too, but not a banger. This is a fairly potent first line, though a bit on the one-dimensional side. (there's some toughness in Murray and maybe a BIT of defense in Kaleta)

Chouinard, after appropriate evaluation of his even strength talents, is an average 2nd line center, again nothing too special but well within the range that the others have. I was quite impressed with what you were able to find on Ran McDonald; you gave this early guy a little life this year when all we had to go by were his scoring stats. He's a good, but not great, 2nd line scorer and his grit is a good complement to the softer Chouinard. Lukowich, on the other hand... he's a stud. OK, so he's tiny. But what a fine little all-around player. Not quite sure about his defense, but he's physical, fearless, gritty, and a leader. I should have read up on him more because he's an excellent complementary scoring line player whose percentage scores (including adjusted WHA years) stand up quite well in this draft to many one-dimensional scorers populating these scoring lines in here (I have him at 318).

side note, My strategy right from the start was to grab Murphy and Harris early, two big, strong, physical and excellent defensive players with the offensive chops to play a complementary role on a scoring line... because there were just so few guys down here that do all that... and then sit by smugly while everyone tries to put a glue guy like Bill Flett on their first line, or just not bother trying at all (which a lot did). However, with a guy like Lukowich on the board, maybe I acted a little rashly. Don't get me wrong, I do like Murphy and Harris better. BUT I could have waited knowing I had a solid backup plan if I lost these guys. I definitely could have snagged a Hardy/Murray/Galley/Reise on D... or a center like Zhluktov. Maybe I could have still gotten those two. I'll never know.

Anyway, it's an excellent line, with everyone at a minimum average offensively for a second line, and a great mix of complementary skills.

You know I like Schock. He's one of my two favourite 3rd line centers here. A wonderful mix of offense and defense, and bonus leadership. Poor playoff record though. DeBlois I've been high on for a couple of years. He, too, was a captain, played all three positions, and his raw stats underrate him compared to a lot of guys because his points were almost all ES and SH (15% PP). Sell me on why he's better than Benoit Hogue. I want to know if the case is there. Reason is, I was critical of Hogue last year and underwhelmed this year, and I'm a DeBlois fan, but they're both similar in "range" of skills in that both were "good" but not great defensively and offensively too, but when I evaluated all the 3rd lines it seemed Hogue was conclusively better on paper. I really want to like DeBlois better, remind me why I should! Hecht is solid as well. In the same sort of range but a really good defensive reputation, and an underrated ES scorer. (that bio of him that you pasted in, it's exhibit A of why I try not to fill my posts with lists of where a player ranks among available players, because that will be different in subsequent drafts and will require re-evaluation anyway)

I'm saving this but I will finish later tonight. Just need the wife to fall asleep...

....and she's out. So, obviously I like Maloney a lot. If you're going to take a fighter, take one like Maloney. Zajac is ok but I'm really concerned about the tumble his game has taken since losing Parise. I'm still not sure where his all-time legacy is going to end up. Callahan is ok, he's actually a really good player right now, but as an all-time guy we're talking about someone with just 400 games played. He does have really solid PK stats (over a relatively small sample for this draft) and does a lot of little things well.

I like what you've put together on Stew Evans, a guy I knew little about except for a few all-star votes. However - sell me on why he's a better player than Reg Hamilton, if you can. I'm willing to listen. Evans is a very solid pick for an ATD #1 and if we take these O6 defensemen in the "right" order next time then he should be an MLD player (so should Hamilton). Gord Murphy is a solid all-around guy who's not that far off from the Lidster/Hardy class, more like a Hedican, actually really similar to a Paul Martin who I think has peaked higher but hasn't built the career value quite as much yet. Brewer as a #3 is an embarrassment of riches. He's the 2000s answer to Barry Gibbs. Bladon is one of the better PP specialists for this level. He doesn't do much else, but the teams he PP specialized for were also pretty successful, so that's a plus. I think you got a bit of a steal in Trapp. We talked about how I had thought about taking him but got scared off from his possibly fraudulent WCHL all-star teams. However, Iain Fyffe is sure that at least one of them is legit, and I think you said you're sure of two of them, and the third technically hasn't been discredited officially, and the one sham AST I was thinking of turned out to be a season he was never officially listed as an all-star to our knowledge anyway.... right? I think that's right, anyway. manery's not going to hurt you, he's a solid PMD who's good defensively but pretty non-physical. I picked him first in 2010 for his excellent minutes stats. It was in 2011 when I was doing a study on 1970s defensemen following the MLD finals, when I found out that Manery never once had more minutes than an ATD defenseman. He stuck out like a sore thumb in this regard and definitely dropped a few pegs in my mind as a result. However, he had risen close to the top of my list by the time you selected him, so this point is pretty much moot.

McNeil is a really good starter for this draft. For good reason, I struggle with comparing him to modern guys like Hrudey, but my gut says you have the best guy in this draft. To be honest, I did a really in-depth look at McNeil and Charlie Hodge when I was selecting an MLD backup (Charlie Hodge as an MLD backup - imagine that!). Maybe if we meet in the playoffs we can take a knife to them both and figure it out, but regardless I'll give you the AAA goalie crown at this point. Maniago is a guy you know I was really high on too. I wanted Brodeur, just missed out, quickly nabbed Robertson, but would have taken Cesare as a plan C and would be happy to do so.

Your collection of spares is just what I look for. We've already talked about Watson, who can play RW and D. Conacher wasn't the BPA at forward or anything, but has value as a LW and C. Seiling was close to the BPA as far as defensive forwards go, and is a reasonable ES scorer and multi-positional guy as well. You pretty much covered off spare offensive center and LW, and defensive C and RW, and D, with your three spares. Good work.

I like Crisp a lot, as you know since you linked to my bio. Crisp is fiery and it was a good idea to get him an assistant. Buckna will do the trick.

Best of luck, I'm sure we'll be talking again soon. Your path to the final goes through me, or my path to the final goes through you, or something like that.
 
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jkrx

Registered User
Feb 4, 2010
4,337
21
Congrats on completing your first draft, young squire.

It's really hard to say how good a 1st line AAA Mozyakin is. I wish we had some glimpse of him in the NHL so we could at least see if he was a 1st/2nd line talent or what. I don't want to hold not playing in the NHL against him too little, or too much. He might be the best winger here, or the worst. Ruzicka is a solid 1st liner who won't hurt you at all. And though Napier is on the low end for AAA top liners, he does belong. You didn't do too badly here.

Malecek is in the Zabrodsky boat for me. Not exactly sure how to rank him, but he "belongs". Moulson doesn't have an extensive resume yet, so he lags behind other scoring AAA wingers, but I'll say a few things for him. One, he's on his way. Two, although it's easy to criticize him as a Tavares product, he was never outscored that much by JT. Three, it hasn't been that long since the trade but his production hasn't been hurt yet. And four, he plays a unique brand of physical, extremely clean hockey. Lowell MacDonald is a very strong AAA 2nd line scorer, at least based on peak. Poor longevity. This isn't too bad a line, either.

Cullen is the type of guy who won't hurt you, but I don't know how much he'll help either. He's ok. Just kind of a "tweener" at this level without standout offense or defense. Gelinas is an outstanding bottom 6 forward who usually goes in the MLD. Daze is a pretty good offensive player for this level (above average for goals, horrible for assists) but I don't think he brings a heck of a lot for bottom-6 skills. Seems like the kind of guy you'd want as a scoring line forward or not at all. You've got average-to-good pieces here, but it feels like a bit of a mishmash.

I think the whole 4th line should ride the pine. Molin at least proved he could play in the NHL, but he wasn't very good there. Ambuhl was a fringe player even in the AHL, never mind NHL, and guys like Arbelius are a dime-a-dozen. Though I freely admit that sorting out non-ussr/cssr Euros from the 70s/80s gets to be tricky after the MLD level.

Kearns is probably your best all-around defenseman, and that's not good because he's more of a one-way player. He played a lot for those poor Vancouver teams, but he's a big reason poor Maniago faced so many shots. Still, it was him getting those big minutes for nearly a decade and not someone else. Bolton had an outstanding peak for this level but really poor career length due to injuries. He's the kind of guy who will require a good spare to spell him. Robidas is a clear #3. Another guy who was a #1 four times, but always for mediocre to bad teams in Dallas. He's a solid all-around player though, with a reasonable claim to a AAA roster spot. Scuderi is quite solid but a complete non-factor offensively. He's less potent than Brad Marsh, which I didn't even think possible! I think he's close to the level of reputation/respect that Marsh had, and if he can have another 500 games like his first 600 went, he'd likely be at a Marsh level all-time. Unfortunately, he's probably too old to ever do that so I wonder what his all-time legacy will be. Salvador's your #5 and you wondered why he had never been taken. The reason is that he's spent his whole career as a 3rd pairing player. He broke out at 35, the first time he ever had a 20 minute season, and he had an outstanding 21-game playoff. For 48 games since then, he's led a NJ defense corps that has been terrible. He does not have a resume worthy of an all-time draft. Worse players have been selected though... Connors is an interesting one; we've already talked about him. I'm not feeling it. Your 3rd pairing is going to get victimized.

Gilbert's not a very good starter (but not too far off from the others) and Tugnutt is a little lacking as a backup too. Good recovery pick, taking Gilles and getting skudra on the bench.

Well constructed PP units. i'm surprised you don't have Lowell MacDonald on there. Maybe Cullen's only there because someone needs to take faceoffs? If Daze or Mozyakin can play that role, then you can get Lowell on the PP, because he's far superior offensively. Also, did Malecek ever play the point? As for the PK, the only change I'd make is put someone on there over Moulson. literally anyone. because he never kills penalties at all. there`s gotta be someone else you can put there.

Ruel is a solid coach who deserves a AAA spot.

Your spares will be terribly outmatched if they ever see the ice. You have to hope no one gets injured because your regulars are decent players for the most part. However, since you have Bolton and Daze, it`s a practical certainty you`ll need to dress Roy and.... oh wait, who is your /7 defenseman? uh oh.

Best of luck!

I need to say something about Lars Molin. He did very well in the NHL until he broke his leg, gliding into a goal post during the '83 season. He was tough too and one of those guys who tried to disspell the chicken swede stamp. Went up against Terry Ruskowski who broke his nose, which later Tiger avenged. Molin was also one of the key players during Canucks cup run.

I agree that he is a bit out of his league at this level and suit better in AA but I don't see him as a liability with limited 4th line time I'm more worried about Ambuhl.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
6,428
are we sure we don't want to take an extra day or two to do these? Discussion seems to be picking up.
Sure looks that way. Unless there's an objection, let's extend discussion through to the end of Monday.

Tuesday will be Voting Day (details to be posted Monday and PM'd).
 

BubbaBoot

Registered User
Oct 19, 2003
11,306
2
The Fenway
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Warroad Lakers

Coach: Sid Abel
A better player than a coach, a better coach than a GM? Created a ruckus when he resigned (the Harkness Experiment) and sort of lost his desire.


Carl Liscombe - Dutch Reibel - Jeff O'Neill
Small speedy WW2-era LWer / small, clean playing CTR who could dish it, played on a line w/ Howe and Lindsay. dropped off quickly / RWer is the meat on the line, goes to the greasy areas but can put it away when he has too. His linemates are reminiscent of his best year when he played with HoFer Ron Francis and Kapanen.

The line has the speed, the playmaking and the grit.....if they mesh and are hitting on all cylinders they'll cause fits for opponents.

Geoff Sanderson - Andrew Cassels (A) - Erik Cole
Love this line.

Two time All-star LWer with serious speed and skill. According to reports he was sort of a 90's Tyler Seguin.....one speed and damn all else. Still, 1,100+ games and 700 points on some not so very good teams is pretty good / A CTR who could also dish out. He was on my radar and I think underrated. Also played 1,000+ games with 732 points. / Cole is player I really like but he's getting long in the tooth right now. Responsible in all zones, can play either wing and tough, he's the defensive conscious on this line but also has some good offensive skills too.

Built with the same speed / skill / grit agenda as the first line, though much bigger. A very good 2nd line.

Mark Osborne - Christian Ruuttu - Blair MacDonald
Solid two-way LWer who'd drop them if called upon it. I'd actually forgotten about him. Good 3rd line winger with 900 games and 200 goals, 10 of them SH / one of those pain in the ass Finns at CTR, much like my Jussi Jokinen but with a mean streak and not shy in giving face washes or jabs with the stick. Excellent at faceoffs. 621 games - 432 points and a +39. Strong in the international game as well as the SM-Liiga. I wanted him but got scooped (damn you)/ MacDonald is sort of a hard read. Came out as a solid scoring threat and special teams play in the WHA and then spent time playing with Gretzky. Fast drop off and pretty much done by 29 yrs old as far as top level productivity. Did he get hurt?

Still, a pretty damn good 3rd line at it's peak. MacDonald being the only wild card here.

Marco Sturm - Curtis Brown (A) - Mike Grier
Not built as the traditional 4th line agitators line but more as a solid two-way line.

Sturm had a very solid career as an NHL 2nd liner and PK guy. Very fast but an enigma sometimes....always waited for him to break out but never really got there. Either way, as good a 4th line winger at this level as there is. / CTR Brown an underrated two-way player with solid PK skills. Can also play the wing. / I was never a big Grier fan, like Sturm I always waited for him to break out into a dynamic player, especially at his size. Instead he efficiently accepted the role as a responsible defensive oriented player who wouldn't make a mistake that'd cost your team the game.

50 SH goals between them, this makes two solid bottom six players as tight a defensively responsible team out there.

Garry Galley (C) - Arnie Brown
Galley is what he is, a very good offensively oriented PMD. As solid a PP point man in this draft as there is. A little loosey-goosey on the defensive side but not a train wreck either. Pairing him with Arnie Brown is a good call.

A solid 1st pairing but I'd make sure that there was some defensively responsible wingers on the ice at the same time Galley is on.

Al MacNeal - Sean Hill
The shutdown pairing? (BTW, it is MacNeil, with an i, not an a)

MacNeil wasn't big, just quietly efficient guy who used his brain via angles and anticipation. Big plus is that he was tough and didn't back down from anyone. I think I might be one of the very few Bruins fans who likes Sean Hill. A solid and gritty tough d-man who played a bit chippy. If he had been a Bruin he'd be in the same category as Kyle McLaren, a former B looked fondly upon.

Kyle McLaren - Marek Zidlicky
Speaking of MacLaren, a big slow and chippy with a mean streak....borderline dirty at times. In other words, a typical Bruin defenseman in many ways. Always liked him. Had a heavy shot from the point. Want to piss of a Canadien fan? Tell them the Zednick hit was good. Zidlicky is a current PMD, who's played on some very defensive oriented teams, even if he isn't so defensively oriented himself.

The pairing has some holes, ie...McLaren can be beat on the outside by speedy wingers. Combined with Zidlicky's propensity to jump up, I'd also make sure there's some defensive oriented wingers on the ice at the same time.

Dwayne Roloson
Richard Brodeur
Roloson was the guy I was trying to decide on my #1 GK. I went with Steady Eddie Johnston over Roloson's very hot post season streaks. A mistake on my part?

A hard read for me on Brodeur. His numbers ain't good, even for the high flying era he was in. A workhouse on some crappy defensive teams for sure, but did he ever steal any games? Could he do so with this team?

extras:
LW/C Sibby Nichol
D Zarley Zalapski
RW Bill Hicke
F Randy Wood
Nichols - an era requirement? Don't know much about him but seems to be the turn of the century equivalent of Brad Marchand.
Zalapski - PMD with defensive holes. Still as a sub he's solid enough if Galley or Zidlicky go down.
Hicke - Like this guy. Need a shot of offense? Call Hicke.
Wood - To me your best sub. Could fit in anywhere on your bottom 6. A steal at this stage IMO.


Overall, you've quietly built a solid team, especially for a playoff run. It'll be gritty for the most part. If the top 6 can take advantage of opponents mistakes and the bottom six can cover for some of the defense corps deficiencies and if Roloson does his usual standing-on-his-head playoff routine, this team could go deep.
 
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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,132
Regina, SK
Isn't that Canada's Single A version of the NFL that We have in the states. :naughty:

I'm not a football expert, but from what I know about the likelihood and frequency that a player from the cfl makes it big, it's more like the echl to the nhl. So, let's call it AAA. Two levels down, not five.

Anyway, Saskatchewan didn't host for decades and then Finally got a chance in 95, and earned their way into the regular rotation by doing such a good job. They hosted in 03 and now this year. Big difference this time is that Saskatchewan is also playing in the grey cup this time... so it's an epic day when you consider how infrequently they've hosted and played in the final, and now both are happening at the same time.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,132
Regina, SK
Rome Frenzy

22_zpsb4b0b477.jpg


Coach: John Muckler

Joe Juneau - Lorne Campbell - Jeff Carter
Danny Grant A - Hib Milks - Bud Poile
Lars-Eric Lundvall - Nils Nilsson - Ronald Pettersson
P.J. Axelsson - Manny Malhotra A - Colin Patterson
Tom Fergus - Mark Johnson

Karel Gut C - Ralph Bowman
Marcus Ragnarsson - Alex Smith
Rick Smith - Yevgeni Paladiev
Jim Dorey - Jack Ruttan

Bert Lindsay
Niklas Bäckström

PP1: Juneau - Campbell - Carter - A. Smith - Gut
PP2: Grant - Milks - Nilsson - Poile - Paladiev
PK1: Malhotra - Axelsson - Bowman - Ragnarsson
PK2: Juneau - Patterson - A. Smith - R. Smith


1916 or earlier - Lorne Campbell
1917-1942 - Hib Milks
1943-1965 - Nils Nilsson
1966-1979 - Jim Dorey
1980-1994 - Colin Patterson
1995-2004 - Manny Malhotra
in 2013 - Jeff Carter

Touchdown Saskatchewan! (i'm trying to review your lineup but it's been tough balancing this and the grey cup but I'm gonna give it my best shot here)

Good job taking Lorne Campbell, he didn't deserve to drop any further. He's hard to compare to these other centers but I am pretty sure he not only belongs, but is a strong first liner. The problem with evaluating him is the leagues that he played in, not necessarily the era. I wish he showed up in Iain Fyffe's "meritorious men of the 1900s" blog post, but he doesn't, so I can only assume he's somewhere below #22, Art Hooper... which is really odd! I like Hooper and he likely had the better two-year prime but his career was alarmingly short. Anyway, I messaged Iain to see if he'll advise where Campbell fits into all this. Juneau is an OK pick for a first line. What you're going to get out of him is harder to guess since he had two separate careers and the switch from one to the other was not exactly gradual. I think you'll get a guy who's in-between both his early and late career abilities, both offensively and defensively. So, fairly well-rounded. Carter I'm not too sure about as a RW. He's been mainly a center, and his goal stats have overrated his offensive ability (he's been poor in the assists area). I'm not sure how he'll mesh with his center and his overall offensive game (being that he's just an 8-year vet) is not particularly overwhelming for a 1st line AAA winger. Your first line doesn't look like it will win or lose you games. It's reasonable offensively, has a defensive conscience about as good as most other 1st lines, and has just a bit of toughness by committee.

Your 2nd line is a little "good news, bad news". First, the bad news: From a percentage standpoint, Milks is a pretty weak scorer for a 2nd liner. Among pre-expansion guys, he's so far behind Jackson, Gee, Reibel and Carson that it's a real concern. The good news? Grant is an outstanding 2nd line scoring winger and Poile is as well. Neither brings toughness from what I can tell, but at least Milks makes that up. I don't think there's a defensive game to speak of in this line, but Milks' wingers do make up for his lack of potency.

Touchdown Riders!!!

Oh, and Iain got back to me:

Way down the list. His score is about 44. That being said, I've been plugging away on a revision to PA that will probably affect him a little bit, in the upwards direction. But still he had a number of good-not-great seasons, and some disappointing ones too.

this does surprise me a bit, and it could be that I've been overrating the importance of the IHL compared to Iain. And he's the one with the huge data bank supporting his conclusion, not me.

Touchdown Riders!!

Touchdown Riders!!! (WTF???)

I like he third line. Based on their international stats, it's clear they belong at the AAA level, and they even have decent anecdotes supporting them too. They're not a "classic" third line but they are proven to be a cohesive two-way unit. Axelsson was a guy I went over in a lot of detail last weekend (and so did VI), Patterson was a really good defensive forward and penalty killer, and Malhotra is a horse you can really ride defensively. They're all a little underrated offensively, too. They do a lot to fill in the intangibles the top-6 don't have in spades. I'd like to see someone with elite level toughness, or even close to it, though.

Your defensemen are all average at worst in their roles, and in a lot of cases, better. I think Alex Smith is your best guy and almost certainly MLD caliber. Ragnarsson is as solid a defensive specialist as one will find here. Rick Smith is an all-around minute muncher (his time as WHAer obscures my ability to come to a conclusion about his true value) and Bowman is a big bodychecker. Gut is the only one I'm a little underwhelmed by. You're right that Paladiev had the resume that best warranted selection among soviets when you took him.

Lindsay is an adequate starter. Next tier down from a Billy Nicholson in his era, I'd say. Backstrom is an above average backup. I've been skeptical of him for a while but it's been so long that I have to relent on that somewhat.

Your spares are well above average. Dorey is an excellent do-it-all spare who can come in to fill any role you need... even 2nd PP unit. Fergus was not too special, he's an offense-only center (mostly) but there were better ones you could have taken. Ruttan you can't go wrong with as a spare; he was the 2nd last HHOFer to go. Johnson wasn't close to the BPA for forwards, either, but he can also play RW so he's a defendable pick for sure.

I have you in the 1-5 clump in your division that's hard to sort out, so you'll likely finish in that range, though I would lean towards the high end in your case. Best of luck.

(dang, just realized this is kinda short. I never realized as I was writing, but I guess I kinda mailed this one in thanks to Grey Cup)
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,980
Brooklyn
Re: Hib Milks - isn't the argument for him that he led his (generally terrible) teams in scoring, while most of the rest of the guys drafted at this level were complimentary players?

Re: Lorne Campbell - it's quite possible that Iain's PA system is underrating the IHL - remember that Hod Stuart also looks surprisingly low, and that could very well be part of the reason why
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,132
Regina, SK
Burmingham Barracuda's

Coach - Jacques Martin

Greg Adams - John Cullen - Phil Kessel
Justin Williams - Dan Quinn - Wayne Connelly
Randy Burridge - Thomas Plekanec - Pat Boutette
Rick Dudley(C) - Radek Bonk - Matt Cooke

Mark Hardy - Paul Martin (A)
Barret Jackman (A) - Brad Stuart
Lyle Odelien - Jaro Spacek

Goaltenders
Jose Theodore (1)
Viktor Zinger (2)

Spares
Frank Rankin (Rover)C/D
Mark Hunter RW
Lou Lameroux D
Joffery Lupul LW

PP1
Adams - Quinn - Kessel
Martin - Hardy

PP2
Burridge - Cullen - Connelly
Stuart - Spacek

PK1
Plekanec - Cooke
Jackman - Martin

PK2
Bonk - Boutette
Stuart - Odelien

First line is strong. Cullen is not the reason why. he's a pretty underwhelming first line center. he fits in with the rest of the group but his output was just a tad less impressive than theirs. However, he's got the best or 2nd best (depending on who you talk to) winger in this thing. I know Kessel has his haters. Will they come out of the woodwork here? Anyone? I'd like to know if there's anyone who doesn't think Kessel is a top-2 winger here and explain why. Anyway, Adams is also a reasonably strong 1st line glue guy who brings solid production. It's a pretty balanced line with guts and a little toughness by committee.

Quinn is about average offensively for the 2nd line centers in this draft. You did well getting him because he was the last member of his tier to get selected. Connelly and Williams are both about average for their roles too. Neither will hurt you. You're a lot higher on Williams than I am. In an all-time context I don't think he brings significant defense. However, your line is at least average, as all its members are. More toughness would be nice, but I know that's not easy to do.

Plekanec is an elite 3rd line center in the AAA. I have him 3rd after my Dahlstrom and Schock. But I'd be willing to listen to a case that puts him on top of one or both of them. Cooke is about average for a 3rd liner but his real value is on the PK. Also, he's an elite agitator. When you took Cooke and Boutette late in the draft, your team got a LOT harder to play against. Burridge is an OK third liner who brings some of everything.

Dudley's a classic 4th line type player who demonstrated the ability to score in the NHL too. He was a WHA captain, right? If so, he's probably your best choice to wear the C. Bonk is the best 4th line center in this thing. He's not always on, but when he's on, he is big, physical, outstanding defensively and a legitimate offensive threat. In fact, I'd listen to a case that he is the best bottom-6 center in the draft over Dahlstrom, Schock and Plekanec. Excellent 4th line.

You know i'm really high on Hardy. He's not the best offensive or defensive guy in this draft, but he's one of the more physical defenders while being above average at everything for this level. Seems to be a weak PP player despite his point totals, but this is a guy who was a #1 six straight times, including a few times over Larry Murphy. Martin is your #2 and is such a solid guy who needs nothing more than further career value to rise up to MLD #1 status. As it is, he should be in the MLD. Every time a team's successful in the Eastern conference, there's Martin, anchoring the defense. I don't see him as a great PP option either, but one of about a dozen defensemen in this thing who should absolutely be in the MLD. You know I wanted Martin pretty badly after I drafted Brad Marsh, I think they'd be outstanding partners since Martin is soft and Marsh is anything but.

Stuart is a poor man's version of your top-2, he played a long time eating solid minutes and didn't do any one thing particularly well, but was a good all around player. Odelein is pretty much the ideal 3rd pairing tough guy. A legitimate goon who could legitimately play. He'd be the first guy I look to for a 3rd pairing defensive/tough role, and then I'd turn to Snepsts. Jackman is really underrated and people need to start taking a closer look at him in these drafts. Is he really that far behind Jason Smith anymore? Spacek is your #6 and is a guy who can eat minutes on the 3rd pairing and score you some PP points. As you can recall, we talked about how he was my next choice after Brisebois, if I missed out on him. In the end, you missed out on him by a few seconds but by getting Spacek over a week later, you got good lineup value.

Theodore is an OK starter. He does have the best peak among goalies (Quick has a case) but spent another decade on top of that as an average starter. That's not being said as a bad thing per se, being an average starter is a decent achievement if you can do it long term... which Theodore did. Zinger is appropriate for a backup too. Did you see the bio I did on him two years ago? http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=38148711&postcount=408

Your spares are ok. I think making Hunter a spare in favour of the much more consistently grating Cooke and Boutette was a good idea. Rankin can fill in reasonably well in most places in your lineup. Lamoreux is decent (and filled an era requirement for you). Lupul... not quite a AAA player but I guess you have a guy who Kessel knows well.

Jacques Martin is a guy who has a lot of pluses and minuses. He has managed to keep getting NHl jobs and is well-respected in the NHL. A defensive whiz. He's got a lot of games, a lot of wins, and usually makes the playoffs. On the other hand, he is probably a little too easy on his players, coaches boring hockey (which can be a drag on them) and can be outcoached in the playoffs. I don't think he'll hurt you though, he's more than worthy here.

I like the forwards on the first PP. They are your most talented guys, plus Adams brings some grinding and net presence. You don't have an ideal pointman. That's the price you pay for avoiding "specialists" and taking better all-around players. Your PP sufferes but you're arguably better off by being stronger in ES, where 70% of the game is played. (I've been there). Martin and Hardy are your best options, but neither is ideal. Second unit forwards are ok. Do you really not have anyone better than Burridge to take that LW spot? Stuart and Spacek are no worse than your other two pointmen so they look pretty good for a 2nd unit.

With Plekanec and Bonk anchoring your PK units, you're in good shape. Boutette and Cooke will both do the jobs as their wingmen. I'm surprised there's no place for Hardy on your PK. I'll have to check my stats later and see who you might move. Certainly he killed more than a couple of those guys, but whether his team results warrant a spot on your PK is debatable. I am sure most other teams would find a place for him.

You've got a very solid team up-and-down, likely top-3 in this draft. Well done, sophomore.
 

Rob Scuderi

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
3,378
2
Does BudsBuster have any forwards who can play the point on the PP? Anything has to be better than Paul Martin there.

He's a first unit guy over Letang with the Penguins right now, but yeah it's definitely not his strong suit especially in an all-time sense. All he does is pass because his shot is so bad, but he's their best option. Even swapping him with Spacek would help I think.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,980
Brooklyn
He's a first unit guy over Letang with the Penguins right now, but yeah it's definitely not his strong suit especially in an all-time sense. All he does is pass because his shot is so bad, but he's their best option. Even swapping him with Spacek would help I think.

I thought of swapping him with Spacek. Or maybe dress Lameroux?

Kind of off-topic, but has Letang really been that bad this year to lose his spot on the top PP unit to Martin?
 

Rob Scuderi

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
3,378
2
I thought of swapping him with Spacek. Or maybe dress Lameroux?

Kind of off-topic, but has Letang really been that bad this year to lose his spot on the top PP unit to Martin?
He's definitely struggled in general, but Martin's just better on the powerplay than Letang somehow. He's just not very good at it because he shoots too hard and misses the net often and never gets his passes in the other player's wheelhouse for a one-timer. He's best at rushing and then dishing it off, but once they're set up in the umbrella Letang's value on the PP drops like a rock.

Martin actually works because there's already so much skill and Malkin's shot is the best on the team from up high anyways. He brings some poise and makes good passes, but if I were the opposing team I'd know I can get away with essentially ignoring him as soon as he gets the puck because he knows how bad his shot is and won't use it.

To carry the OT, say what you will about Sergei Gonchar but my god could that man run a power play.
 

Rob Scuderi

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
3,378
2
Thanks for the review as always 70s, I'll try to respond to some of it.
Chouinard, after appropriate evaluation of his even strength talents, is an average 2nd line center, again nothing too special but well within the range that the others have.
The main reason I took Chouinard so high was his ability quarterbacking a powerplay. His career was short but he's one of the best PP players in the draft.
|GP|$PPP|$PPP/S|$PP%|TmPP+
Cliff Ronning|1137|328|23|57%|0.91
Andrew Brunette|1110|292|22|60%|0.91
Alexei Zhamnov|807|273|27|71%|0.94
Andrew Cassels|1015|269|21|55%|0.93
Ivan Boldirev|1052|251|19|48%|0.86
Robert Lang|989|236|19|50%|1.02
Guy Chouinard|578|230|32|79%|1.08
Garry Galley|1149|228|16|47%|0.94
Dan Quinn|805|218|21|53%|0.95
Joe Juneau|828|211|20|52%|1.08
Geoff Sanderson|1104|207|15|43%|0.89
Petr Nedved|982|205|17|39%|1.05
Jozef Stumpel|957|204|17|49%|0.99
Rick Kehoe|906|201|18|49%|0.95
I stopped at players with over 200 adjusted PP points.

DeBlois I've been high on for a couple of years. He, too, was a captain, played all three positions, and his raw stats underrate him compared to a lot of guys because his points were almost all ES and SH (15% PP). Sell me on why he's better than Benoit Hogue. I want to know if the case is there. Reason is, I was critical of Hogue last year and underwhelmed this year, and I'm a DeBlois fan, but they're both similar in "range" of skills in that both were "good" but not great defensively and offensively too, but when I evaluated all the 3rd lines it seemed Hogue was conclusively better on paper. I really want to like DeBlois better, remind me why I should! Hecht is solid as well. In the same sort of range but a really good defensive reputation, and an underrated ES scorer. (that bio of him that you pasted in, it's exhibit A of why I try not to fill my posts with lists of where a player ranks among available players, because that will be different in subsequent drafts and will require re-evaluation anyway)
I had Hogue on my team last year and would have been happy to pick him again this year if I didn't go for Hecht. I liked him more last year than you did and possibly still do. I did find more quotes about DeBlois checking other team's best lines than I could last year with Hogue, where I posted one quote about him shadowing Lemieux. I found quotes on DeBlois's line checking Gretzky, 89 Calgary's scorers, and two about Lemieux. Phil Esposito was his coach during the second quote about Lemieux and said they've come to expect great checking work of Jan Erixon and DeBlois so it seems like he settled into the role of a reliable checker against other team's top lines when his offense dried up. I wanted someone who could bring a physical game beside Hecht and Schock who weren't hitters and DeBlois was the best I could find out there. It was actually between him and Seiling (who seemed less physical) so I was a little surprised I could get Seiling with my last pick.

I thought about cutting those pieces of Hecht and DeBlois's bios where you posted their ranks among undrafted players, but I figured everyone can see they're not current.

Zajac is ok but I'm really concerned about the tumble his game has taken since losing Parise. I'm still not sure where his all-time legacy is going to end up. Callahan is ok, he's actually a really good player right now, but as an all-time guy we're talking about someone with just 400 games played. He does have really solid PK stats (over a relatively small sample for this draft) and does a lot of little things well.
Zajac's offense isn't anything special, but I figured he'd be a solid defensive guy who can kill penalties and has decent size even if he doesn't use it to dish out hits. Callahan's career is short, but he was already valuable enough to make a best on best tournament in a 4th line/PK role which is all he has to do here. I know you're skeptical of Selke records, but he may have the best one in the draft even though I think Arvedson had the best single year Selke-wise.

I like what you've put together on Stew Evans, a guy I knew little about except for a few all-star votes. However - sell me on why he's a better player than Reg Hamilton, if you can. I'm willing to listen. Evans is a very solid pick for an ATD #1 and if we take these O6 defensemen in the "right" order next time then he should be an MLD player (so should Hamilton).
This is definitely attempting to split hairs so bear with me.

Ultimately I tend to look at all-star votes and quotes first and foremost for these 06 guys. I think Evans's all-star votes are significant here, particularly in 1938. Just like I'm a fan of Hamilton's 10th place finish in 1945 which is marred by the date rather than amount of votes to me.

Reading your bio of Hamilton, I see a quote that said he was good enough to be a partner of Hap Day, a more general "for 10 years a stalwart operator on the Leafs' hockey defense," and bolstering Chicago after his trade.

From Evans's bio, he was good enough to play with Cy Wentworth and they paired "for one of the best units in hockey," and a quote calling him a first rate rearguard (in the company of Shore, Seibert, Conacher, Wentworth, and Shields).

There's not a ton for either that aren't descriptions of style or quotes from single games, but I think the praise for Evans seems higher.

Also I sorta question what the big chart showing that Hamilton's teams were some of the best of MLD/AAA defenders says, just because of the reserve clause. It's true it's more impressive to stick on a good team than bad one, but we know these guys probably didn't drive their team's success like you questioned with PP guys. So can we say that a guy who stuck on a bad team, and never got traded, was necessarily worse than someone who lasted on a good team? If it weren't for the reserve clause the answer would be an obvious yes, but it sort of blurs it for me.

I think you got a bit of a steal in Trapp. We talked about how I had thought about taking him but got scared off from his possibly fraudulent WCHL all-star teams. However, Iain Fyffe is sure that at least one of them is legit, and I think you said you're sure of two of them, and the third technically hasn't been discredited officially, and the one sham AST I was thinking of turned out to be a season he was never officially listed as an all-star to our knowledge anyway.... right? I think that's right, anyway.
I'm only sure of Trapp's 1925 reserve all-star spot, I found a newspaper article for it. I couldn't find ones for the other three. The retroactive thread credits Trapp with 4 all-star spots, including the 1925 labeled as a reserve spot. Legends of Hockey lists him as a 3-time all-star, but leaves out the 1925 reserve nod. So with Iain's information, we can be sure of 1925 and 1926. I don't have any reason to doubt BM67 for the other two, but in 1923 he's one of three 1st team defenseman with Herb Gardiner and Joe Simpson. It's possible that should be a second reserve spot, but that's just speculating. Either way, I'm pretty sure he was a four-time all-star and one certainly was as a spare (but in a year no one seemed to know he was an all-star).
 

Hedberg

MLD Glue Guy
Jan 9, 2005
16,399
12
BC, Canada
(dang, just realized this is kinda short. I never realized as I was writing, but I guess I kinda mailed this one in thanks to Grey Cup)

No, it's great - way better than anything I could do. Thank you and congratulations on your Grey Cup

I'd like to see someone with elite level toughness, or even close to it, though.
Our logo will be too intimidating for anyone to mess with us :sarcasm:
 

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