AAA 2013 Line-up Assassination Thread

jkrx

Registered User
Feb 4, 2010
4,337
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Michigan Wolverines

Red Berenson, Coach

Shawn McEachern - Viktor Zhluktov (C) - Wildor Larochelle
Chris Kunitz - Walt McKechnie - Sergei Svetlov
Benoit Hogue- George Ferguson (A) - Ken Schinkel
Chris Simon - Steve Rucchin - Matthew Barnaby
Yanic Perreault, Nelson Emerson

Keith Brown - Igor Stelnov
Moe Mantha (A) - Bert Marshall
Jimmy Orlando - Larry Zeidel
Pete Goegan, Mike Rathje

Guy Hebert
Hec Fowler

PP1: Shawn McEachern - Viktor Zhluktov - Wildor Larochelle, Keith Brown - Moe Mantha
PP2: Chris Kunitz - Walt McKechnie - Sergei Svetlov, Igor Stelnov - Steve Rucchin

PK1: George Ferguson - Ken Schinkel, Keith Brown - Igor Stelnov
PK2: Steve Rucchin - Benoit Hogue, Bert Marshall - Jimmy Orlando
 

BubbaBoot

Registered User
Oct 19, 2003
11,306
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The Fenway
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Michigan Wolverines

Red Berenson, Coach

Shawn McEachern - Viktor Zhluktov (C) - Wildor Larochelle
Chris Kunitz - Walt McKechnie - Sergei Svetlov
Benoit Hogue- George Ferguson (A) - Ken Schinkel
Chris Simon - Steve Rucchin - Matthew Barnaby
Yanic Perreault, Nelson Emerson

Keith Brown - Igor Stelnov
Moe Mantha (A) - Bert Marshall
Jimmy Orlando - Larry Zeidel
Pete Goegan, Mike Rathje

Guy Hebert
Hec Fowler

PP1: Shawn McEachern - Viktor Zhluktov - Wildor Larochelle, Keith Brown - Moe Mantha
PP2: Chris Kunitz - Walt McKechnie - Sergei Svetlov, Igor Stelnov - Steve Rucchin

PK1: George Ferguson - Ken Schinkel, Keith Brown - Igor Stelnov
PK2: Steve Rucchin - Benoit Hogue, Bert Marshall - Jimmy Orlando
That's a VERY commendable 4th line, (with two solid 3-zone subs)....nice late draft selections.

Kunitz, Hogue, McKechnie, Mantha and Rathje were all on my lists too....another team I like and wouldn't enjoy going up against.

BTW.....flip Brown (a natural righty) and Steinov (a natural lefty) at their positions.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,125
7,208
Regina, SK

BOSTON CUBShttp://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=73260837&postcount=8




Head Coach: Vladimir Yurzinov
Asst Coach: Terry O'Reilly

Evgeny Mishakov - (A) George Geehttp://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=55596013&postcount=9 - Bill Fletthttp://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=73721999&postcount=143
Kristian Huselius - Vyacheslav Anisin - Donald Audette
Johan Franzen - (A) Jussi Jokinen - Scott Walker
Vic Lynn - Skinner Poulin
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=41052413&postcount=125 - Jimmy Herberts

Pekka Marjamaki - Joe Cooper
Al Dewsbury - Igor Romishevsky
(C) Don Sweeney - Bill Juzda

Eddie Johnston
Roman Turek

[spares]
Dave Creighton (ctr)
Hannu Virta (def)
Mathieu Dandenault (def/rw)


- PP1 -
Franzen - Gee - Audette
Marjamaki - Walker


- PP2 -
Huselius - Anisin - Flett / Herberts
Dewsbury / Sweeney - Romishevsky


- spot duty PP forwards -
Jokinen - Poulin - Mishakov

- PK1 -
Mishakov - Walker
Dewsbury - Juzda / Cooper


- PK2 -
Lynn - Jokinen
Sweeney - Romishevsky / Cooper


- spot duty PK forwards -
Gee - Flett - Poulin


- Multi-positional players -
- Skinner Poulin F (mainly ctr) / D / ROVER
- Vic Lynn LW / D
- Kristian Huselius LW / some RW (listed as F on Elite Prospects)
- Scott Walker RW / D (holds Owen Sound Jrs team record - most pts /season for defenseman)
- Jimmy Herberts C / RW
- Jussi Jokinen C / W (listed as F on Elite Prospects)
- Don Sweeney D / LW (played wing in high school and first yr at Harvard)
- Mathieu Dandenault D / RW​




Gee is a pretty good 1st line center in this thing. I had him last draft and have a good idea of what he brings. He fits in well with this block of centers, most of whom don’t particularly stand out from one another (except Nylander, in a bad way). I know Flett is here for more reasons other than just scoring (and I also know how hard it is to get a scoring player with intangibles to flank our one dimensional centers); you basically have him to be your MLD version of Keith Crowder, but I think he’s lacking in a big way. He did have one excellent season but beyond that, was always scoring 30-45 points. He didn’t kill that many penalties so he’s not a defensive stud from what I can tell, and I’ve always had the impression his toughness gets overrated (maybe it’s the beard?) – he didn’t post high PIM totals and had 14 fights in his 951-game NHL/WHA career. I don’t get the impression he’s terrible in any one area, but I don’t think he’s got the upside to put on a 1st line even as a complementary guy, and I don’t think he’s got quite the complementary skills to overlook his offense. Mishakov is in quite the same boat – let me explain. He seemed to be an OK finisher but both internationally and domestically his assist stats were brutal, leading to offensive stats that were very underwhelming. Although he did have three 7+ point international tournaments, this was when the Soviets were making a mockery of the world championships and their leading scorers had 14, 21, and 19 points. Mishakov peaked at 12th in scoring in the 1970 tourney, tied for 7th on his own team. Domestically he had seasons in 8th and 10th in points, just before the caliber of the league took off. So I have serious doubts about his offensive chops. However, I realize that you probably have him for similar reasons that you have Flett – he has a bit of a reputation as a combative Soviet. That said, I must question whether that reputation stems entirely from one fight at the Summit Series. In the SS, he earned almost half of his career international PIM total even though that was just 6 of his 43 international games. In the Soviet league, he had a career high of 24 PIMs and that didn’t even put him past the halfway mark in the league, and that was the most PIMs he ever had. (I’m not saying PIMs are a good thing necessarily, just that they at least serve as evidence of combativeness) So Gee is going to really have to carry this line. At worst, these two wingers are still what I’d class as “workmanlike†and could get the job done.
*
The second line contains a trio of players I unfortunately have to harp on a bit. Anisin has a decent and long international career. And he DID peak as a USSR leading scorer and that’s worth noting. BUT, aside from that, he never again finished in the top-10 in Soviet league scoring, or in an international tournament. If we’re trying to compare him to NHL players where does that leave him? As for Audette and Huselius, there’s not much to say other than they were very *average second line players who tended to ride better linemates, and their offensive figures are surely nothing special for AAA 2nd liners. They both are better scorers than a number of players such as Ysebaert, Murray Balfour, Matt Moulson… but they don’t have the other skills these players have and that, too, is a concern because this 2nd line is probably as one-dimensional as it gets. Swapping one of these wingers with the first line would probably be a good thing because then at least you get one good workmanlike guy on each line.
*
The third line has good wings. You may know I’m not a huge Franzen fan, but he did drop to a more reasonable spot this year, and he CAN score in the playoffs. Walker’s even better. I had this guy on my radar for a long time and just kept thinking of good reasons to take other players. I actually did give good thought to whether I wanted him over Plett on the 4th line. Super solid player. Jokinen? I’m not sure why you took him. He’s not close to the first guy I’d think of for offense and he’s not close to the first guy I’d think of for defense either. And especially not toughness. I’d consider him as a possible spare due to his versatility, but when guys like DeBlois, Cooke, Boutette, Kevin Miller, Havlat, Murphy and Anderson are available it’s a bit of a stretch to even put him there. Also, why is he wearing a letter? What’s his leadership resume? I am asking because I honestly don’t know.
*
4th line is super solid. I like Vic Lynn a lot. Poulin works. Herberts was an absolute steal where you got him, when you consider his scoring and Hart record. There’s reason to believe he was gritty too, but I with I had been able to substantiate that better in the past.
*
Cooper is your #1 defenseman in my eyes. In fact, I have him as one of the finest defensemen in the draft. I often bristled at him earning MLD all-star votes and I think that’s fair, however, he fell quite a bit and the analysis I did on all these O6-era defensemen indicates he really shouldn’t have. In the ATD and first part of the MLD, I’d say we’ve all done a really good job of “sorting out†these players. Mainly because we have voting records to confirm how they were regarded in the hockey world. However, we have done a relatively poor job of sorting out the next tier. Forwards are easy because they have offensive numbers to compare – defensemen really don’t. Along the way we forgot that simply being in the O6 NHL meant something. My little analysis I did to compare these guys was, to my knowledge, the first quantitative and qualitative analysis of this tier of MLD defensemen and it was pretty eye-opening. Although somewhat simplistic (and isn’t any numerical analysis of O6 defenseman going to be simplistic?) it clearly demonstrates which defensemen were regarded highly enough by the hockey powers to hold down one of these exclusive jobs for an extended period, and it even looks at how strong the teams were that used these players. Cooper looks excellent by this measure, and will receive a high all-star vote from me.
*
Romishevsky and Marjamaki are passable #2/3 guys.
*
The part about O6 defensemen cuts both ways, and as such, I see Dewsbury as your #4. And not a particularly strong one. He only played 5 seasons worth of NHL games, and he did it for abysmal teams, too. It’s fathomable that if he belonged to even an average NHL organization, that he might never have played a game for them. In comparison, Juzda looks like an absolute stud on the 3rd pair, and in fact might be the best player on any 3rd pairing in this draft. Sweeney is a completely stable 3rd pairing guy too. I always struggle with how to rate him but I am sure he won’t hurt a AAA 3rd pairing.
*
Johnston is an average AAA starter, Turek a below average backup. Not much more to say there. I have no idea how to rate Yurzinov; let’s just say he’s OK. O’Reilly is a guy I’d never even thought of taking in these things; not sure how much he helps, but the alternative was to take some mediocre player as a spare, right?
*
I like your spares collection. I advocated for Dandenault down in the 1900-2000 range, he surely doesn’t look as solid this high, but he does play two positions. Virta might be a little behind some other spare D. But Creighton is a stud for a spare center. I’m really intrigued by his 1400 career pro games. What if he was 10 years younger and was still NHL-caliber when the league expanded? What might his career have looked like?
*
Recommendations: there are still better goalies than Turek out there; you might want to consider an add/drop. I’d also consider an add/drop on Jokinen as there are so many more useful players out there to center a 3rd line. (S.H, A.S, M.S, J.D, D.R, T.G, S.O, F.K, J.M….)
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,259
6,476
South Korea
you might want to consider an add/drop.
The drafting is finished, the add/drop period of 48 hours is finished. The schedule was all announced a week ago and there were no objections to it. The date has passed. We are moving on.

Continue assassinations this weekend. Regular season ranking votes will be collected early next week (PMs will be sent out indicating whom to send them to).
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,125
7,208
Regina, SK
The drafting is finished, the add/drop period of 48 hours is finished. The schedule was all announced a week ago and there were no objections to it. The date has passed. We are moving on.

Continue assassinations this weekend. Regular season ranking votes will be collected early next week (PMs will be sent out indicating whom to send them to).


It seems that the best time for adds and drops would be after getting some feedback in this thread and getting a feel for what the other GMs think about your players.

But Ok then.
 

Budbuster

Registered User
Oct 31, 2011
195
1
Regina, Sask
Sorry guys im really lacking in time to do some write ups, So I will point out some players/lnes I really like. And if some one wants comment on mine Ill try and make time to reply

Ivan Tregubov - Brad Marsh (A)
Reg Hamilton - Al Hamilton (A)

Make my top 4 of

Hardy - Martin
Jackman Stuart

Look a little less Dominant. Thanks for that. :(

This could easily be one of the best top 4s in AAA history. The fact you stole a few of these guys real late hurts even more 70s ;)

Also Sorrell is the only guy in this draft Id put ahead of Kessel in this Draft at the winger position. Strictly due to longevity at this point. Both guys would be solid 2nd liners in the MLD in my opinion.
If not this year next for Kessel.

Jochen Hecht - Ron Schock (C) - Lucien DeBlois

This line could be top 2 or 3 in this draft as a shut down line. I took Hecht last draft and was looking for him again this year. Not a lot of scoring there but Schock is an excellent PKer and will fill that role nicely. I would have like to see more playoff scoring out of this line.

Makes me very happy I got Plekanec when I did.

Conacher and Seiling as Subs are excellent as well. I don't look forward to our 2nd round match up ;)
But I think we match up well with one another.
 
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VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,259
6,476
South Korea
Lakers, Human Beings and Cubs have been reviewed by seventieslord;

I'll be reviewing at least three unreviewed teams this weekend;

come on guys, review a team in detail!
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,125
7,208
Regina, SK
I'm gonna try to do all 13. And then might do my own team, make some controversial comments to get people talking. That's If I can do all 13. But I have a feeling I'll fall short... but ya never know.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,125
7,208
Regina, SK
Sorry guys im really lacking in time to do some write ups, So I will point out some players/lnes I really like. And if some one wants comment on mine Ill try and make time to reply

Ivan Tregubov - Brad Marsh (A)
Reg Hamilton - Al Hamilton (A)

Make my top 4 of

Hardy - Martin
Jackman Stuart

Look a little less Dominant. Thanks for that. :(

This could easily be one of the best top 4s in AAA history. The fact you stole a few of these guys real late hurts even more 70s ;)

Also Sorrell is the only guy in this draft Id put ahead of Kessel in this Draft at the winger position. Strictly due to longevity at this point. Both guys would be solid 2nd liners in the MLD in my opinion.
If not this year next for Kessel.

Jochen Hecht - Ron Schock (C) - Lucien DeBlois

This line could be top 2 or 3 in this draft as a shut down line. I took Hecht last draft and was looking for him again this year. Not a lot of scoring there but Schock is an excellent PKer and will fill that role nicely. I would have like to see more playoff scoring out of this line.

Makes me very happy I got Plekanec when I did.

Conacher and Seiling as Subs are excellent as well. I don't look forward to our 2nd round match up ;)
But I think we match up well with one another.

Heh. you sound like a seventieslord shill! :laugh:

(For the record, Budsbuster and I had an in-depth discussion on Kessel and Sorrell today, he was thinking Kessel was the best AAA winger, but I guess I convinced him otherwise. I do have Kessel 2nd. And surely there's a handful of MLD wingers these guys could displace. After this season, Kessel will not be denied, no matter how fat or overpaid some people think he is.)

I agree that Schock is awesome. my favourite non-Regina 3rd liner for sure. As far as offense goes, he's well above par for a 3rd liner. DeBlois was a solid pick when he was made. He would be an elite spare. As a 3rd liner he's maybe a little better than average. You're right to be happy about Plekanec. Actually I might be convinced he's a Dahlstrom/Schock level player if you want to make that case.

Don't be so sure he's going to be your 2nd round opponent! Or that you'll even have a 2nd round series! Focus on the task at hand, young sophomore.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,125
7,208
Regina, SK
Atlanta Knights

George Richardson-Alexei Zhamnov-Rick Kehoe(A)
Alexander Bodunov-Tim Young-Brian Gionta(A)
Bob Kelly-Peter Zezel-Martin Lapointe
Don Grosso-Stephane Yelle- John Anderson

Extras: Petr Klima, Paul Stastny

Sergei Starikov(C)-Robert Picard
Bret Hedican-Janne Ninimaa
Bob Plager-Tom Kurvers

Extras: Richard Matvichuk, Kevin Mccarthy

Felix Potvin
Hal Winkler

Coach: Bob Hartley

PP1: George Richardson, Alexei Zhamnov, Rick Kehoe, Robert Picard, Janne Ninimaa
PP 2: Alexander Bodunov, Tim Young, Brian Gionta, Sergei Starikov, Tom Kurvers
PK 1: Peter Zezel, Martin Lapointe, Sergei Starikov, Bret Hedican
PK 2: Don Grosso, Stephane Yelle, Robert Picard, Bob Plager

1916 or earlier- George Richardson, Hal Winkler
1917-1942 - Don Grosso
1943-1965 - Bob Plager
1966-1979 - Rick Kehoe, Sergei Starikov, Robert Picard, Tim Young, Alexander Bodunov, Bob Kelly, John Anderson, Kevin Mccarthy
1980-1994 - Alexei Zhamnov, Bret Hedican, Felix Potvin, Martin Lapointe, Tom Kurvers, Stephane Yelle, Petr Klima, Richard Matvichuk
1995-2004 - Janne Ninimaa
in 2013 - Brian Gionta, Paul Stastny

Your first line is very strong. I've said that pretty much all the 1st line centers fall within a pretty tight range as far as peak scoring goes. But if I have to split hairs and rank them, I'd say Zhamnov is the 2nd best 1st line center in this thing. After Zhluktov. the thing about Zhamnov is that his peak 6 years were about as good as guys like nedved, Lang, Gee, Stumpel, etc, but he's got 4 more solid seasons in addition to them and a lot of these guys really tail off after their best few seasons. You have a little bit more of a "sure thing" there. Richardson is an OK first liner (he's a guy who's really tough to judge) and Kehoe a strong one as well. Kehoe is similar to Zhamnov in that he's got good, strong 9-season consistency, even if his best 6 years don't quite match up to the Sorrells, Kessels, and Boldirevs. This line has all kinds of offensive potential and will be strong when it has the puck. When it doesn't... not so much. Who will defend, and who will win pucks? This will be an ongoing theme in this draft, not just for you.

The parts on your second line are not quite as strong. Tim Young is about even with guys like Milks, McKechnie and McCourt for the bottom range of 2nd line centers for offensive production, but they all have a two-way game or toughness to speak of. Young's 2-way game is much less substantiated. Gionta is not as strong a producer as most 2nd line wingers as well. If you look at Sanderson, Grant, McDonald, Connelly, MacDonald, Murphy, and even Cammalleri, they had better histories of production in the NHL. More difficult to compare guys are Tobin and the soviets Golikov and Svetlov, but their resumes appear superior as well. Bodunov is a decent scorer for a 2nd line; he has three really solid USSR league seasons (4th, 6th, 7th in points) and was once 5th in an international tournament. Interesting to compare him to his linemate Anisin, who only had that one scoring title and was never top-10 in another season or tournament. Despite the high peak season, he averaged 0.58 PPG internationally in his prime and Anisin averaged 0.82 in his, despite never being top-10. I just thought that was interesting.

Both your scoring lines are pretty much devoid of someone to win battles for pucks and backcheck strongly. I mean, Gionta's got a little competitiveness in him, but he won't scare anyone.

Zezel is one of the better 3rd line centers in this draft. A solid mix of offense, defense, and especially faceoff ability. Lapointe, despite not being a defensive stud, is adequate and I really like his mix of adequate offense and brute strength on the 3rd line. Dreak and I wanted him pretty bad last year after he fell so hard, but we missed out. Kelly is OK, but not too strong a 3rd liner. I'd prefer to see a guy like him on a 4th line. This has the look of an outstanding 4th line but it's still a decent 3rd line, too.

Yelle is certainly one of the better "pure" defensive players in this draft. Offensively, he's even below my Lorne Henning, which I didn't think possible. So when you look at guys like radek Bonk, Steve Rucchin and Kevin Miller as 4th line centers he's not going to be as effective as them as a two-way player. That said, you don't get Yelle for his play on 4th line shifts per se, you get him for his prowess on the PK. Anderson is a strange choice for a 4th liner. He was never a role player in his career and was not too good at anything aside from scoring. He was arguably the BPA offensively when you took him, but I just didn't see the need. Grosso dropped and deserved to drop a bit (his wartime offense gets overrated a bit and I'm not completely satisfied with how well substantiated his defense is) but much like Herberts, he looks like a deadly 4th liner in the AAA. You got him at a serious dis"count" (har har har).

I have Picard as your #1 defenseman, personally. He falls into the Malakhov category for me - not particularly valuable at anything other than offense, but he was a bigger minute player than most of these guys, and killed a crapload of penalties. No, his teams weren't all that good, but still. Overall he is not the greatest #1 here but your corps gets more solid from there. Hedican and Niinimaa stand out next to me. Hedican was a 20+ minute, 1000 game guy, a solid step down from 23 minute guys like Lidster and Hardy and Galley, but solidly in the next tier with Stuart. Interestingly, he made the playoffs less than half the time, but when he did, he got to the finals in 3 of 8 seasons! Niinimaa is a bit of a poor man's Picard in that he was maligned by fans and unappreciated despite being a big minute player for some very competitive teams. He's a PP specialist "plus". Which is how I see a guy like Brisebois.

I call Starikov your #4. When I did my little analysis of soviet defensemen early in this draft here , he appeared to be the second least impressive one selected. However, you may recall I didn't say he was a bad pick, it was more that we all just stopped drafting Soviet defensemen for 550 picks. He fits as a well above average #4 here. Plager is a stud of a #5. Like Bubba's Juzda on a third pairing, he stands out as quite the beast. Kurvers is a decent PP specialist to round out the corps.

Potvin is approximately an average starter so he won't hurt you. Winkler is an excellent backup that's probably better than a few starters.

Your spare corps is about average. Klima is an ok offensive LW/RW but he has the worst attitude ever. Will he sulk about being on the bench? McCarthy was nearly the BPA among defensemen when you took him, so how can you argue with that? Stastny was a pretty good center when you got him. Matvichuk is ok. And Hartley I have as an average, solid coach for this level. (as I've said before, no one stands out particularly).

Your top 2 PP units match your top-2 lines. Therefore, your first unit's gonna score a lot and your 2nd isn't. You managed to get 3 PP specialists, so having Kurvers anchor the second is actually a pretty big coup for you. If you look around the league, there tends to be a struggle to get those 3rd and 4th PP defensemen without ruining your ES play.

How do you not have Yelle on the first PK unit? He's the only guy you have who actually killed a lot of penalties. He killed twice as many as Zezel (21%, merely AAA competent), who killed twice as many as Lapointe (11%, ouch). I'd swap those forward units entirely because Zezel/Lapointe is a very underqualified set. Statistically, Plager is your best penalty killer, too. I'd put him on the top pairing. Hedican didn't kill that many penalties, and Picard did but his teams were brutal at it. Was Starikov much of a penalty killer? I have no idea.

Oh, and why is Starikov your captain? I have no idea what his leadership resume looks like.

You're in that clump of 5 teams in your division that is rather hard to sort out. I'm not quite sure how you'll turn out. depending on how you sell your team, could be 1st-5th.
 
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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,125
7,208
Regina, SK
Blackwood Bullies

Coach Dan Bylsma
Assistant Coach Terry Murray

Andrew Brunette (A)- Vladimir Zabrodsky -Russ Courtnall
Mike Krushelnyski - Mike Walton -Charlie Tobin
Bep Guidolin -Paul Gardner - Joe Benoit
Doug Smail - Alexei Guryshev - Doug Brown
Harry Meeking - Paul Holmgren


Bob Murray (C) -Sean O'Donnell (A)
Sheldon Souray - Jay Wells
Craig Muni - Igor Kravchuk
Paul Popiel


Carey Price
Jon Casey

PP#1
Andrew Brunette- Mike Walton -Russ Courtnall
Sheldon Souray - Bob Murray

PP#2
Bep Guidolin - Vladimir Zabrodsky - Charlie Tobin
Igor Kravchuk - Paul Gardner

PK#1
Doug Smail - Alexei Guryshev
Sean O'Donnell - Craig Muni

PK#2
Doug Brown - Russ Courtnall
Bob Murray - Jay Wells​

Congratulations on completing your first entry in an all-time draft!

If you search my name and "Zabrodsky", you'll see I've been really critical of him. However - that was as an MLD player taken in the 700s-800s, he has fallen appropriately and he suddenly doesn't seem so out of place. There are question marks with him for sure. But the level of dominance coupled with the competition level seem to congeal into a mixture that puts him right around here. Don't ask me to make a detailed comparison to the other 1st line centers here. I'll just say he "belongs". Courtnall and Brunette are both about average 1st liners, too. Brunette's a little better. He just kinda crept up on all of us, slowly putting up points, but he's a good AAA winger. He kinda Vinny Prospaled us all. I worry that the line lacks someone to really win those pucks and cover defensively.

Walton has above average skill for a 2nd line center here, once you factor in his WHA time. He's a free spirited type with a questionable attitude - which is fine, as long as you don't have too many guys like that. Krushelnyski is about average as a 2nd liner. He played a lot more C than LW, though. I read some scouting reports on him tonight. I thought I remembered him as a well-rounded type with solid defensive play and physicality. Apparently he was more of an enigma that you always wished would get more involved. But - good prime offensive numbers. Tobin is the best member of your line. My little study of pre-merger wingers here demonstrates that he has great numbers for a AAA winger (should likely be an MLD spare at worst) and this doesn't even take into consideration that he was a defenseman about 1/4 of the time. In fact, I even admitted I'd probably take Tobin over Jack McDonald, the only one on the list I was prepared to say that about. This is a solid line where all the members are at least average. I think Tobin brings some complementary skills for a scoring line too, which are ever-elusive at this level.

Interesting 3rd line. It's pretty much a 3rd scoring line with no regard for defense whatsoever, which is rare. Paul Gardner is maybe the best PP specialist ever. It's a backhanded compliment, I don't mean he was the best on the PP ever, but a larger percentage of his value as a player comes from his work on the PP than perhaps any other forward. I assume the 3rd line is just a place for him to skate a few shifts to keep warm while he waits for his real opportunities. Guidolin is actually really strong for a 3rd line. I see no defense, but I see really solid offense and some combativeness, though he is small. Benoit? A little early for this guy. A one-dimensional scorer who doesn't score as well as most guys here.

Where are the checkers? There they are, on the 4th line. Smail and Brown are both pretty decent for this level. I really like Smail because he showed a real ability to produce at even strength and kill penalties at a pretty high level. Brown was a classic journeyman. He's an interesting case because his overall package says "AAA draft" but I was never really compelled to pick him; his offensive game was unimpressive, he wasn't physical, and though he was a smart, conscientious player, he's not someone I would class as a "defensive forward", either. Kinda of a Sergei Brylin. He's a competent penalty killer, though.

Bob Murray is one of the best defensemen in this draft. I see him right there with Galley; a more offensive-oriented guy who was still pretty good all-around and should have been in the MLD. Why's he your captain? Did I seriously take all the captains in this draft? O'Donnell was a competent player and a good complement to Murray. I just hope he can keep up on the first pairing, as he rarely played there in real life. Souray and Kravchuk are more specialist-type guys who are likely your 2nd and 3rd best D-men overall. Souray was a compelling guy for me throughout this draft because I don't see much defensive worth in him, like a lot of PP specialists in this draft, but he's got two important advantages: 1) his PP points, of which he has a fair amount, are primarily goals, and defensemen who can score PP goals are rare down here, and 2) the rest of these "strong on the PP, weak defensively" guys tend to be little softies. But Souray is massive, can lay a big hit, likes to stick up for teammates and will drop the gloves. Muni is an excellent defensive specialist here. He won 4 cups as a top-4 defenseman and there are good quotes supporting his skills. I would call Wells your #6, and I gotta say, even though you got him late, he looks pretty good here. Numbers-wise, his minutes aren't all that strong, but they're also not far off from guys we'll be taking to open up the AA draft, and he has the toughness to make him a worthy niche player at this level.

I'm not a fan of Price... yet. He's good now. Not so good as an all-time goalie. I think he'll get outperformed by a lot of other goalies in this league. Legace was a real stinker of a pick. You recovered well, and Casey was one of the 3 best guys left. still more towards the bottom end for backup goalies, but you got him in the add/drop period, so what did you expect? Won't hurt you though. And Legace would have.

Your group of spares is decent. I wouldn't have minded you keeping Tavares as a spare. but your team did need checkers, and you got 'em. Meeking and Holmgren can both step in to add muscle if needed. Popiel is ok. I'm not a huge fan of his resume as a defenseman (because he was pretty weak in the NHL) but, did you know he also played a bunch of wing in the WHA? It's a nice added feature there, he is a solid multi-positional spare.

I'm not a Bylsma fan, though. He's a good example of why we need to be really patient with coaches and let a lot of years pass before we pass judgment. Even more than with goalies. He came in and the Pens stormed back to win the cup, that's great. But the team has been a massive disappointment since then. Their playoff record has been terrible compared to the season, and honestly even their season record has been slightly off what you'd expect given their personnel. Eventually it comes down to coaching. I do get the feeling he's not very popular with Pens fans right now, amirite Rob Scuderi?

Your PP pointmen are set up pretty well. With one exception. Gardner. One, can he play the point? Two, how do you draft this guy and not make him the focal point of your PP? He led the league in PP goals twice! So if he can play the point, switch him with Murray. If he can't, make him the 1st unit center and drop Courtnall down. Also, you have to find a way for Guryshev to play the PP, considering his net presence (they called him the Russian Phil Esposito, in retrospect I imagine). I'd remove Tobin, and I'll explain why.

Your PK defensemen are set up perfectly. Guryshev has to go. There's nothing defensive about him at all. Tobin can take that job, no problem. Smaill is a no-brainer for the 1st pairing. Put Tobin there as a #2 PK forward who can take faceoffs (he played some center). Brown/Courtnall has to be your 2nd unit because there's just no one else. Brown's good and Courtnall is competent. I realize there's no center there but there's no other choice. None of your centers can kill penalties.

Best of luck!
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,125
7,208
Regina, SK
Christ, these take me an hour. Apparently when it comes to ATD stuff, I don't know any other way to do these other than going big. I hope you enjoy them, I do put a lot into them, and I really try to mix the good and the critical as close to 50/50 as your lineups will allow. No one wants to read paragraphs of their team getting trashed, but hearing line after line of "he's a good player, that's a good combination, he should score well for you" does no one any good, either.

I'm done for the night. Really busy tomorrow but I will try to do a couple while watching the Leafs at least. Sunday is Grey Cup but that's not until later at night so I'll try to take advantage of the daytime.

I've got 8 to go, not sure if I can do it, but if I can't, hopefully a few of you will fill in the gaps. But really, I'd like to see everyone get a couple of reviews. And if you don't have the time to make a full review, at least use other people's reviews as an opportunity to start a discussion. If someone said something you don't agree with or begs correction, say something!
 

vecens24

Registered User
Jun 1, 2009
5,002
1
I believe I remember that Gardner is a net guy on the PP. I can't imagine him not being the best PP guy in this draft.

God, I remember when TDMM and I won the MLD a couple years we had conversations about Sorrell being our first line LW in a 1000 player draft. He's fantastic in a AAA draft.
 

tony d

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
76,594
4,555
Behind A Tree
Many thanks for the review seventies, I'll make the changes to my defense now, still the ? becomes now if I take the C off Starikov, who do I give it to? Kehoe or Gionta? In that case then who do I give the A to? Also if I move Anderson into my top 6, do I move Gionta to my 3rd or 4th line?

So for the record here is the new Atlanta Knights lineup:

Atlanta Knights

George Richardson-Alexei Zhamnov-Rick Kehoe
Alexander Bodunov-Tim Young-John Anderson
Bob Kelly-Peter Zezel-Martin Lapointe (A)
Don Grosso-Stephane Yelle- Brian Gionta (A)

Extras: Petr Klima, Paul Stastny

Robert Picard-Sergei Starikov
Janne Ninimaa-Bret Hedican (C)
Bob Plager-Tom Kurvers

Extras: Richard Matvichuk, Kevin Mccarthy

Felix Potvin
Hal Winkler

Coach: Bob Hartley

PP1: George Richardson, Alexei Zhamnov, Rick Kehoe, Robert Picard, Janne Ninimaa
PP 2: Alexander Bodunov, Tim Young, John Anderson, Sergei Starikov, Tom Kurvers
PK 1: Don Grosso, Stephane Yelle, Sergei Starikov, Bret Hedican
PK 2: Peter Zezel, Martin Lapointe, Robert Picard, Bob Plager

1916 or earlier- George Richardson, Hal Winkler
1917-1942 - Don Grosso
1943-1965 - Bob Plager
1966-1979 - Rick Kehoe, Sergei Starikov, Robert Picard, Tim Young, Alexander Bodunov, Bob Kelly, John Anderson, Kevin Mccarthy
1980-1994 - Alexei Zhamnov, Bret Hedican, Felix Potvin, Martin Lapointe, Tom Kurvers, Stephane Yelle, Petr Klima, Richard Matvichuk
1995-2004 - Janne Ninimaa
in 2013 - Brian Gionta, Paul Stastny

Bios can be accessed in my original post in this thread
 
Last edited:

Rob Scuderi

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
3,378
2
Many thanks for the review seventies, I'll make the changes to my defense now, still the ? becomes now if I take the C off Starikov, who do I give it to? Kehoe or Gionta? In that case then who do I give the A to? Also if I move Anderson into my top 6, do I move Gionta to my 3rd or 4th line?

So for the record here is the new Atlanta Knights lineup:

Atlanta Knights

George Richardson-Alexei Zhamnov-Rick Kehoe(A)
Alexander Bodunov-Tim Young-Brian Gionta(A)
Bob Kelly-Peter Zezel-Martin Lapointe
Don Grosso-Stephane Yelle- John Anderson

Extras: Petr Klima, Paul Stastny

Robert Picard-Bret Hedican (C)
Janne Ninimaa-Sergei Starikov
Bob Plager-Tom Kurvers

Extras: Richard Matvichuk, Kevin Mccarthy

Felix Potvin
Hal Winkler

Coach: Bob Hartley
I think Gionta and Lapointe are the only guys on your team who were captains. I'd be tempted to give the C to Gionta just because he's worn it for 3 seasons already.

As far as Anderson, I think he's a solid second liner and would swap him with Gionta. I don't think you can go wrong with him on the third or fourth line, but I'd probably go 4th and stick him with Grosso who also has some offensive talent.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,981
Brooklyn
I think Gionta and Lapointe are the only guys on your team who were captains. I'd be tempted to give the C to Gionta just because he's worn it for 3 seasons already.

As far as Anderson, I think he's a solid second liner and would swap him with Gionta. I don't think you can go wrong with him on the third or fourth line, but I'd probably go 4th and stick him with Grosso who also has some offensive talent.

Gionta was a good leader in NJ even not wearing the C. I think he's a fine choice for C at the AAA level.
 

tony d

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
76,594
4,555
Behind A Tree
Game-Of-Thrones-Direwolves-Sigil-Logo-davesgeekyideas.png


Coach: Brian Sutter
Assistant Coach: Jacques Laperriere

John Sorrell - Petr Nedved - Mike Murphy (C)
Tony Granato - Art Jackson - Alexander Golikov
Buzz Boll - Cully Dahlstrom - Billy Harris
Jack McDonald - Lorne Henning - Willi Plett
Martin Havlat (LW/RW), Ron Murphy (LW/RW)

Ivan Tregubov - Brad Marsh (A)
Reg Hamilton - Al Hamilton (A)
Art Moore - Patrice Brisebois
Bob Turner (D/W)

Kelly Hrudey
Earl Robertson

PP1: Sorrell - Jackson - Harris - Nedved - Tregubov
PP2: McDonald - Boll - Golikov - A.Hamilton - Brisebois
PK1: Henning - Murphy - Marsh - R.Hamilton
PK2: Dahlstrom - Granato - Tregubov - Moore

1916 or earlier - McDonald, Moore
1917-1942 - Sorrell, Jackson, Dahlstrom, Boll, R.Hamilton, Robertson
1943-1965 - Tregubov, Turner, Murphy
1966-1979 - Murphy, Harris, Marsh, A.Hamilton, Henning, Plett, Golikov, Laperriere
1980-1994 - Nedved, Granato, Hrudey, Brisebois, Sutter
1995-2004 - Havlat
in 2013 - Havlat

Time to return the favour:

Coaching:

Sutter is a coach I've always and had you hadn't snagged him he would have been 1 of my targets in the AA draft. 451 wins is quite a lot for a coach at this level and he seems to get 100% out of all his players which is always good.

I'm not fond of assistant coaches but Laperriere seems like a wise choice. Sutter seems like a good main coach while Laperrie will handle the systems. Both are very good picks.


1st Forward Line:

This looks like one of the best 1st lines in the league. Sorrell seems like a very good find, 3 top 20 finishes in points is pretty good at this level. Nedved's a good 1 as well, he may suffer from inconsistency on times but overall he's a great 1st line centre at this level. Murphy's a good 1 as well, where Sorrell will score the goals and Nedved will set up the goals, Murphy will protect his linemates with his toughness and chip in with some offense from time to time, great 1st line here for sure.

2nd Forward Line:

Granato's another favorite of mine and not just because of his first name either.:D. Such a solid guy on every aspect of the game. Your team's lucky to have him. Art Jackson reads as a solid 2nd line centre who is as good offensively as he is defensively, that should fit in well with Granato. Golikov seems to be a great find as well, like Bodunov he's 1 of the better Russian forwards here and they'll add a lot to both our lineups.

3rd Forward Line:

I remember picking Boll in the MLD in 2011, he was a good fit for the MLD and he seems like a steal for an AAA draft 3rd line. Dahlstrom seems like a good 2 way 3rd line centre which is something you always like to have, solid pick. Harris is another good 2 way guy here, overall this is a very good 3rd line which will do just as well offensively as they do defensively.

4th Forward Line:

Jack Mcdonald reads as a good goal scorer as well as a good checker, seems like a good pick. Henning's one of the better 4th line defensive centres in this thing but he can chip in with some offense every now and then, solid pick. Plett reads as your team's enforcer, he's the type of guy who isn't afraid to get his nose dirty, solid 4th line.

1st Defensive Pairing:

Tregubov went in the ATD in 2011 i believe, that may have been a bit early for him but here he's pretty solid. I had Marsh in the 2011 MLD, he was always a really good defenseman and a great choice for one of your lettered players, great pick.

2nd Defensive Pairing:

Reg Hamilton seems like a great defensive defenseman, he's a lot like Marsh in that regard, he's a good pick who'll be a heavy hitter for your team. Al Hamilton looks like a solid 2 way defenseman, I think with Reg Hamilton here Al's role will be more of an offensive 1 than a defensive 1 but he should play defensively given the chance.

3rd Defensive Pairing:

Art Moore looks like a great pick and he will be a typical 3rd pairing defenseman. Brisebois' a ? pick, not that he's a bad player but he's a bit of a sore thumb here on your 3rd pairing, I'd suggest maybe switching him and Reg Hamilton to give your team a great 3rd defensive pairing and a solid 2nd defensive pairing in Brisebois and Al Hamilton.

Goaltending:

Kelly Hrudey was 1 of the 5 guys I wanted as my #1 goalie here, he was always a good goalie but you wonder how he would have done on better teams than the ones he ended up playing on. I had Robertson as my starter in the AAA last year and he was celebrated as a good pick. He'll probably be the best backup in this draft, good pickup.

Special Teams and Extras:

Solid group of extras. I've had Havlat and Turner before and they're both good players, Havlat's a little injury prone but he's still good when healthy. Special teams are very good. When you have a guy like Mike Murphy left off your power play you know it's a good one.

Final Thoughts:

Another entry from you that is very strong, this is a good team and 1 that I think should do well, good luck.
 

Rob Scuderi

Registered User
Sep 3, 2009
3,378
2
Bylsma is disliked by a lot of Penguin fans, and the hate on this site by Penguin fans is unbearable. I don't hate Bylsma, but I wouldn't have picked him here. The biggest thing is he's not a great strategist, more of players-coach who his team loves to play for. I've hated his reliance on forwards deflecting stretch passes into the offensive zone to breakout. This makes no sense to me when a) you have two of the best forwards in the league who can carry the puck through the neutral zone as well as anyone and b) your organization values mobility in defenseman. He's finally started to get away from that this season though. He also had the brilliant idea of forcing Iginla to play LW last year and he clearly was never fully comfortable with it.

The problem is that, while Fleury certainly has hurt the cause, Bylsma has more or less been outcoached in the playoffs. Jacques Martin, Peter Laviolette, and Claude Julien all got the best of him. Byslma always seems to let other teams get the matchups they want. Watching a rookie Couturier shutdown an Art Ross-winning Malkin in 2012 was really frustrating and Byslma didn't really try to avoid the matchup. Everyone watched Bergeron and Chara last spring. He deserves a pass for the first round loss in 2011 in the sense that he had no Crosby or Malkin. But the team did go up 3 games to 1 only to lose the series. He also won the Jack Adams that year on the success with no Crosby or Malkin narrative, but how meaningful was it when it built to a first round loss?

A lot of negatives so I will point out that in that recent players poll he won "Smartest Coach" and a few years back he won the vote in a players poll for the coach you'd most to play for. Also if he's being tasked with the US Olympic team, it's obvious his reputation is better around the league than it is from disappointed fans who think his teams have underachieved.

I just think if you want to get the best out of him then you'd be best finding an Xs and Os guy to pair with him. The Penguins finally did that hiring Jacques Martin this summer.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,125
7,208
Regina, SK
By the way, Tony, when I assessed your defensemen I was not in any way suggesting you swap your pairings. There's nothing wrong with your best guy being on the second pairing or your worst guy being on the first if it makes a good skillset mix. I was merely commenting on how I order then in terms if overall value, which I do in order to make fairer team comparisons (comparing best to best, and so on)
 

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