A way to end tanking

[Jtown]

So while i was blowing some steam driving my car in the dead of night trying to escape the pain a thought occurred to me about how the Penguins in a 20 year span had the first overall pick 3 times and in two of those instances they received a top 5 forward all time.

it got me thinking of a way to end tanking in 2 ways . One is a small change to the system that will end tanking the , other is a significantly larger and much more involved way that will certainly put an end to tanking.

The way i would do it is predetermined order. I would rotate the number 1 pick for the next 31 or 32 years in a random order where each team would get the pick 1 time in that 32 year span. The first pick can not be traded and you can not trade a future first round pick if you are due for the first overall next year.

The other way i was thinking was taking that first concept above and expanding it to the whole draft. that way the whole draft for the next 32 years is predetermined in the future.

If you stop basing the draft on the regular season you will put an end to tanking.

Click to read more...

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

Maybe the teams that don't make the playoffs should play in a tournament for the #1 pick?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The rules in place are fine. You’re not even guaranteed a top three pick finishing last anymore. There’s always going to be bad teams & maybe some that do so deliberately but there’s more risk involved then it used to be & not just outright given something. Vancouver while not tanking & just a shitty hockey club has been bounced out of the top three twice now since they started putting all three picks up for grabs.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

what if ateam folds in the future ? or expansion ??

 

[Jtown]

what if ateam folds in the future ? or expansion ??

so if a team folds you just take away their spot. So lets say its the panthers and they own the 20th spot you just take it away. its as simple as that. For expasnion they go at the bottom or top of the list. it only makes sense. Of if we are in year 10 of this order, they would slot in at 11 or 9.

 

[FlyTimmo]

It is more likely for the the team with the worst record to get the 4th pick than the 1st, 2nd and 3rd pick combined.

The system is fine. Rebuilding and retooling are part of the game.

 

[Starat327]

....cause tanking has worked really well for Arizona, Buffalo, and Edmonton?

 

[BackWithaVengeance]

Don't worry, they'll again find a way to give the Pens another franchise player.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Don't worry, they'll again find a way to give the Pens another franchise player.

Didnt flyers just win the lottery?

 

[sabremike]

The NHL went and took a "problem" that only affected like 2 teams (and even in the McJesus draft we were literally the only team that "tanked" the season, Arizona joined in later when it was obvious they were toast) and through the introduction of the lottery made it a million times worse with every team not making the playoffs "tanking". Solve the problem by getting rid of the stupid lottery, or just have one involving the bottom 2 or 3 teams.

 

[Magua]

31 years?! We would all die within 3 rotations. Ummmm what....?




After tonight, I don’t think I can wait that long.

 

[sabremike]

And here's another thing: you can deliberately put together a bad team (Murray absolutely did that) but they are still paid professionals who aren't going to try and lose because that's what management wants. People forget that team a) very nearly finished out of the league basement because Nolan had them playing so hard at the end and b) that team isn't even the worst the league has seen in the last 4 seasons much less the history of the league. The other thing I'd like to note is that it was the teams in the 5-12 range who "tanked" this year, the bottom teams like my Sabres absolutely did not tank. Last years basement dweller Colorado also did not tank, so in effect you just punished teams for being bad, which is against the entire point of the draft (give bad teams the first picks so they can get better).

 

[SchatzY]

Didnt flyers just win the lottery?

Yes but unfortunately the wrong year. Don't get me wrong Patrick is a stud but the year before it was the year to get that miraculous luck.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

My preferred lie that would never happen.

You collect regular points until you are mathematically eliminated. Once you are eliminated you start to collect draft points. Who ever has the most as misses the playoffs wins the draft.


So if you are a crap team and get eliminated with 20 games on your schedule you can get a max of 40 points but you still have to win to beat out teams that will be getting eliminated in the coming weeks and months.

Not perfect but it would at least promote winning and pushing teams to get better right to the end of the season.

 

[Psuhockey]

There is a ridiculously simple way to end tanking: give every team that misses the playoffs an equal chance to win the lottery. Stop weighting in favor of the worst teams.

 

[BackWithaVengeance]

Didnt flyers just win the lottery?

The last time I checked they were the New Jersey Devils and not the New Jersey Flyers.

 

[GKJ]

I can’t endorse the end of a lottery system where just last year the Flyers jumped 11 spots in the draft. Why are you wasting your time re-litigating the a system from 12 years ago and was since changed? Well past time to let it go.

 

[Rebels57]

So while i was blowing some steam driving my car in the dead of night trying to escape the pain a thought occurred to me about how the Penguins in a 20 year span had the first overall pick 3 times and in two of those instances they received a top 5 forward all time.

it got me thinking of a way to end tanking in 2 ways . One is a small change to the system that will end tanking the , other is a significantly larger and much more involved way that will certainly put an end to tanking.

The way i would do it is predetermined order. I would rotate the number 1 pick for the next 31 or 32 years in a random order where each team would get the pick 1 time in that 32 year span. The first pick can not be traded and you can not trade a future first round pick if you are due for the first overall next year.

The other way i was thinking was taking that first concept above and expanding it to the whole draft. that way the whole draft for the next 32 years is predetermined in the future.

If you stop basing the draft on the regular season you will put an end to tanking.

It's an interesting idea, but I think the change in odds has already made it harder to tank and won't be seeing many teams do what Pittsburgh, Edmonton, Toronto, and Buffalo all did.

 

[ponder719]

The correct solution is to acknowledge that tanking is less of a problem than a cycle of unmitigated mediocrity, and just let the worst team draft the best player.

Failing that, leaving what the league already does alone is a credible enough solution.

 

[Jtown]

It's an interesting idea, but I think the change in odds has already made it harder to tank and won't be seeing many teams do what Pittsburgh, Edmonton, Toronto, and Buffalo all did.

I think tanking refers to a mindset rather than a goal such as obtaining the first overall pick. Regardless of the odds the Sabres assured themselves a top 4 pick. What if it was predetermined that they would have the 15th pick lets say. It makes you think what could be different.

Also this drafting format does not reward incompetence ( oilers) and punishes success ( drw). If you are a very well run club and know you will secure a top 3 selection every 10 years, a top 6 selection every 5 years you could have teams go on very long streaks of success. Look at it this way, The penguins have had 8 top 2 picks in their history the flyers have had 3. One we traded clement for, and another we got extremely lucky and won the 2nd pick . We have had consistent success since our inception as a franchise. And it is because of this consistent success that haven't won a cup in over 40 years. The penguins have had dramatic highs and lows and it is because of this they have reaped the benefit of their talent to 5 cups.

If you look at the history of the cap era and pay attention to the top teams , they are the top teams because of their top selections. Kings - Doughty, Blackhawks- Kane, Penguins - Crosby , Malkin.

Having that first pick or 2nd pick is such a huge advantage that it clearly will impact a franchise's future. No doubt teams have been able to overcome not picking at the top to still have success such at the drw. But its clear as day since 2004 that having the top pick gives you a huge advantage on winning a cup.

2006- eric stall
2007- pronger - generational talent
2008 - drw no top pick
2009-2017 some combo of toews, crosby , doughty , with the bruins being an anomaly though they did have seguin and horton.

Having a top pick does not guarantee success. But winning a cup is very much dependant upon having a top pick perform well on your team.

 

[Spirit of 67]

So while i was blowing some steam driving my car in the dead of night trying to escape the pain a thought occurred to me about how the Penguins in a 20 year span had the first overall pick 3 times and in two of those instances they received a top 5 forward all time.

it got me thinking of a way to end tanking in 2 ways . One is a small change to the system that will end tanking the , other is a significantly larger and much more involved way that will certainly put an end to tanking.

The way i would do it is predetermined order. I would rotate the number 1 pick for the next 31 or 32 years in a random order where each team would get the pick 1 time in that 32 year span. The first pick can not be traded and you can not trade a future first round pick if you are due for the first overall next year.

The other way i was thinking was taking that first concept above and expanding it to the whole draft. that way the whole draft for the next 32 years is predetermined in the future.

If you stop basing the draft on the regular season you will put an end to tanking.

I didn't have a problem with it when last place got 1OA. I didn't have a problem they brought in the lottery. I didn't have a probme with it when they rejigged the lottery to get more teams/spots involved.
But I've had enough of them fiddling around with it. Leave it alone, it's fine.

One thing that people have to consider, and they would mean that you idea would go nowhere, is with the lottery, they can sell another NHL property to TV. The Draft Lottery Show is worth money.

 

[Jtown]

Yes but unfortunately the wrong year. Don't get me wrong Patrick is a stud but the year before it was the year to get that miraculous luck.

I do think laine and matthews are studs. I also think they are at the peak of their development whereas Patrick has room to grow substantially as does hischier. I don't think hischier and patrick ever put up the goals hat those two do, but i do think they have the ability to put up as many points as they do and become as impactful . Matthews disappears for long stretches of the game until he unleashes a beautiful wrister. Patrick on the other hand can score in every way. wrist shot, slap shot, net front presence , breakaway, and most importantly is an expert at converting defense into offense even at a young age.

 

[royals119]

There is a ridiculously simple way to end tanking: give every team that misses the playoffs an equal chance to win the lottery. Stop weighting in favor of the worst teams.

I'm not sure it would totally stop tanking. Take a team like this year's Flyers, except without the current prospect pool. The NHL roster is just good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to win a cup. Management looks at the bare cupboard in the AHL and juniors and says, our only option is to miss the playoffs and try to get a top pick, so they purposely make the team worse in order to miss the playoffs.

You just moved the "tank line" up from the bottom few teams to the borderline playoff teams.

 

[Psuhockey]

I'm not sure it would totally stop tanking. Take a team like this year's Flyers, except without the current prospect pool. The NHL roster is just good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to win a cup. Management looks at the bare cupboard in the AHL and juniors and says, our only option is to miss the playoffs and try to get a top pick, so they purposely make the team worse in order to miss the playoffs.

You just moved the "tank line" up from the bottom few teams to the borderline playoff teams.

So ownership would piss away a couple of million dollars in playoff gate receipts for a 6.7% chance at a top player?

 

[Bigkarl]

I really don’t know why anyone has a problem with “tanking”. Because the Pens got lucky and were bad at the right time more than a decade ago?

Why would a team in the bottom 10 and in purgatory not sell off assets in order to speed up a full rebuild? It’s not like the players on the ice aren’t still tryin to win games.

Honestly, if I had the choice right now of selling off Giroux, Voracek, and Simmonds for a chance at a 1-2 Dahlin / Matthews/ Laine level players or getting demolished in the first round again next year, I think I’d sell.