A Tommi Santala discussion

JumpierPegasus

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
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Nonis did one good thing early, the Luongo trade... After that, I don't know what he did, other than not give us a bottom 6 at all. At least Gillis has brought in serviceable players that can play on the 4th line (even if Sestito sucks, he is still better than Bouck, or Goren. or Brown)

Nonis brought in a great goaltender, his FA acquisitions and his ability to judge talent though, absolutely horrid. He could not make this team complete and I would never trust him to make a cup contender, because he can't build a bottom 6
 

RobertKron

Registered User
Sep 1, 2007
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Nonis did one good thing early, the Luongo trade... After that, I don't know what he did, other than not give us a bottom 6 at all. At least Gillis has brought in serviceable players that can play on the 4th line (even if Sestito sucks, he is still better than Bouck, or Goren. or Brown)

Nonis brought in a great goaltender, his FA acquisitions and his ability to judge talent though, absolutely horrid. He could not make this team complete and I would never trust him to make a cup contender, because he can't build a bottom 6

I saw his problem being more that as the WCE went away and the Sedins stepped into the role as primary offensive threat, he failed to produce anyone to step into that secondary scoring role.

Bouck and Goren played a combined 67 games or something for the Canucks. If they're Nonis' biggest failing then he's a way better GM than he is in reality.
 

JumpierPegasus

Registered User
Mar 3, 2011
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Abbotsford, BC
I saw his problem being more that as the WCE went away and the Sedins stepped into the role as primary offensive threat, he failed to produce anyone to step into that secondary scoring role.

Bouck and Goren played a combined 67 games or something for the Canucks. If they're Nonis' biggest failing then he's a way better GM than he is in reality.

But he had such a rotating 4th line, he had a 4th line made up of AHL players that rotated in and out, who had to play on the 3rd line when injuries showed up.

Fully healthy we had 3 lines of NHL players (debatable), and a last line of rotating AHL'ers. I know the 4th line doesn't play much, but the bottom 6 Gillis brought in really helped for the cup run
 

alternate

Win the week!
Jun 9, 2006
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Complete ********. Try it. 18 absolute garbage players handed NHL roster spots in 3 seasons. That's practically an entire team. Basically dressing a 3rd of an AHL team night-in, night-out for 3 years, I defy you to find me an actual credible GM with a record like that. Nonis is/was a godawful evaluator of talent.

haha, handed NHL roster spots. That's sweet, since most were NHLers before they got here and many of the names given didn't play here more than one season, if that.

Noronen might have been different if Nonis didn't acquire Luongo soon after. When you don't have a goalie, you put a few eggs into your basket until you get one. Once you get one, you don't need the other eggs. Not a biggie imo.

Carney and Weinrich were deadline deals supposed to help us make the playoffs so we could get healthy. We came into the season as Cup favourites, no way Nonis couldn't add some bodies at that time. Not exactly "handing NHL roster spots" seeing as they were both already on teams. Carney was pretty decent except that Crow wanted him to replace what Jovo brought; Weinrich ended up sucking big time, but the trade was considered a good one when it was made (much like Roy last year).

Isbister was an okay bottom six forward for us, on a team needing some size and with no cap space. Problem there, people for some reason thought he was being brought in for offense. Not Nonis's fault people are stupid. Anyway, he was a UFA not a trade acquisition. Probably better than acquiring Steve Bernier for two picks.

Bulis and Ritchie were both solid bottom sixers, as long as Ritchie wasn't on the PP. Probably one of our better 4th line C's in the last while, and Bulis became a great PKer.

Cowan iirc was a waiver claim brought in to give some muscle. Better than Hordichuck anyway.

Shannon = Tambellini more or less. We gave up Jason King and a conditional 3rd, and iirc the conditions weren't met, so we gave up Jason King. Big whup, Shannon was viewed as a good gamble at the time.

Chouinnard was supposed to be what Manny Malhotra ended up being for us, but obviously didn't pan out. Not really sure what happened, because he had been pretty good in Minnesota.

Every GM has misses. I consider Gillis a better GM, but he still had misses, and I'd argue some of Gillis's misses have been much more costly than any of Nonis's. I have no interest in going through a bunch of GM's transaction histories to prove that all GMs have misses, because it's just common sense. End of the day, Nonis made some bad moves, some okay moves, and some great moves. Team was in a better position when he left than when he took the reigns, and that's all that really matters (especially when discussing such a short regime).
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,600
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Vancouver, BC
Nonis' incompetence can't really be registered in pure numbers or lists. Yeah, there are a lot of bad signings. But the specifics of many of the situations make his decisions just head-shakingly bad. And in the bigger sense, he just seemed to have no idea what was actually going on with his team and the roster in front of him.

Take the case of Mika Noronen. It's one thing that we blew a #2 pick on 3 games from a terrible washout goaltender. But the thing is that, earlier that season, he'd traded a #5 pick for a failed-prospect third-string goalie who hadn't played in ages in Maxime Ouellet. That deal ended up completely blowing up in his face. But he learns nothing, and to replace Ouellet ... makes exactly the same trade again. Another failed-prospect washout third-string goalie who hadn't played in ages. And exactly the same thing happens.

The 2007 offseason was the worst offseason I've ever seen from a GM in professional sports. Just completely incompetent, got absolutely everything wrong.

__________

As for Santala ... meh. Was hardly one of Nonis' worst moves. Couldn't skate but understood defensive hockey and was a serviceable big-body low-event space filler. Was signed to be a 13th forward, we didn't give up much of anything for him (gave up a #4 pick, but got a #5 pick back in the deal) and he didn't hurt the team.
 
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vanuck

Now with 100% less Benning!
Dec 28, 2009
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I remember cheering on Jason Jaffray to make it as an NHL'er. Those were the days.
 

dave babych returns

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Dec 2, 2011
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But he had such a rotating 4th line, he had a 4th line made up of AHL players that rotated in and out, who had to play on the 3rd line when injuries showed up.

Fully healthy we had 3 lines of NHL players (debatable), and a last line of rotating AHL'ers. I know the 4th line doesn't play much, but the bottom 6 Gillis brought in really helped for the cup run

Yeah the difference between the forward group Nonis had (after he put his stamp on the team with the Luongo deal) and Gillis has much more to do with the top nine than it did with the fourth line.

Nonis' lines were something like Sedins-Pyatt, 5-10 goal scoring Burrows-Kesler-some plug like Isbister or Shannon, and Naslund playing with Brendan Morrison (who was usually playing hurt or being replaced by Ryan Shannon or Byron Rotchie) and another fourth liner. Cowan or someone like that.

Usually two or three fourth liners in the top nine and then an even worse fourth line. Effectively a first line (where the Sedins carried Pyatt) and two incomplete third lines.

Gillis filled out the top nine much more completely and the pushed fourth liners down into roles where they weren't hurting the team.

(Gillis detractors like to point out how much cap space he had to do this, which is true of course, and just highlights how badly Nonis needed to address the roughly 1/5 of his cap space on Naslund and Morrison who performed vastly below that standard.)
 
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Betamax*

Guest
Aaron Miller.

So much nostalgia

Wasn't it almost All-Star, Rory Fitzpatrick brought it under GM Nonis? At one point in time, IIRC, he was playing at a level above the great Niklas Lidstrom. Or at least a youtube video presented it that way.
 

BenningHurtsMySoul

Unfair Huggy Bear
Mar 18, 2008
25,139
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Port Coquitlam, BC
Would have been better to get Luongo in 08-09 instead when the team was ready. Getting him when we did just masked the fact that the team was garbage otherwise. We could have had a shot at Kane that year.
 

Betamax*

Guest
Would have been better to get Luongo in 08-09 instead when the team was ready. Getting him when we did just masked the fact that the team was garbage otherwise. We could have had a shot at Kane that year.

Everything has to do with timing. I'm pretty sure Bobby Lu would have been dealt to another team by Iron Mike before that if the Canucks didn't pursue him at the time he did.
 

TruKnyte

On the wagon
Jan 1, 2012
6,112
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Vancouver, BC
My boy Tommy Santala!

I remember going to a Nucks skills competition and being the only one that cheered when his name was called, lol
 

LolClarkson*

Guest


Remember when this franchise traded a fourth round pick for this guy.

Nonis saying Santala is the best 4th liner that you can get.

Is there even a current equivalent to this. Nowadays when you're trading away a 4th round pick at least you're getting prospects in return (Welsh, Dalpe)


Edler looks so much younger

Who cares ? What's a 4th round pick ? Nothing.....

That was a rebuild/retool year.
 

Barney Gumble

Registered User
Jan 2, 2007
22,711
1
Just when Wade Brookbank seemingly proved that *anybody* could produce points while riding shotgun with the Sedins (had something like 2 goals in 5 to 10 games with them); along came the great Tommy Santala!

Tommy Santala discussion thread... OK...

Who's next? Mikka Noronen? Marc Chouinard?

Andrew Ebbet ?

Big difference being that we gave up a 2nd round pick to get Noronen and Marc Chouinard was a failure at the both the NHL & AHL level with the Canucks. At least Ebbet - who was signed as a free agent - was servicable at the AHL level.
 
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LolClarkson*

Guest
Nonis did one good thing early, the Luongo trade... After that, I don't know what he did, other than not give us a bottom 6 at all. At least Gillis has brought in serviceable players that can play on the 4th line (even if Sestito sucks, he is still better than Bouck, or Goren. or Brown)

Nonis brought in a great goaltender, his FA acquisitions and his ability to judge talent though, absolutely horrid. He could not make this team complete and I would never trust him to make a cup contender, because he can't build a bottom 6

I just cant believe people don't realize that Nonis was on the job during a major retool. And in the depths of this major retool, he still won more playoff games and rounds then Gillis has in the last 2 years
 

LolClarkson*

Guest
But he had such a rotating 4th line, he had a 4th line made up of AHL players that rotated in and out, who had to play on the 3rd line when injuries showed up.

Fully healthy we had 3 lines of NHL players (debatable), and a last line of rotating AHL'ers. I know the 4th line doesn't play much, but the bottom 6 Gillis brought in really helped for the cup run

You say this a year after we had Andrew Ebbet on our second line ?

Nonis had crazy injures to deal with on the year he missed the playoffs.
 

vanuck

Now with 100% less Benning!
Dec 28, 2009
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I just cant believe people don't realize that Nonis was on the job during a major retool. And in the depths of this major retool, he still won more playoff games and rounds then Gillis has in the last 2 years

Why would anyone want to only look at the last 2 years?
 

Barney Gumble

Registered User
Jan 2, 2007
22,711
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he still won more playoff games and rounds then Gillis has in the last 2 years
Nonis missing the playoffs two out of three years got him canned. If Gillis misses it once (this season), there's a good chance he'll get canned (one year out of six).
 

Ziostilon

Registered User
Feb 14, 2009
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Who cares ? What's a 4th round pick ? Nothing.....

That was a rebuild/retool year.

How is a 4th round pick nothing, when you had practically nothing in the cupboard

How can you call it a rebuild/retool when you're trading away the tools (draft picks) that you need to rebuild with
 

RobertKron

Registered User
Sep 1, 2007
15,477
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Who cares ? What's a 4th round pick ? Nothing.....

That was a rebuild/retool year.

Someone should have told Nonis that at the trade deadline when he traded away two seconds and a fourth for two rentals. What the **** are you talking about?
 

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