Post-Game Talk: A tale of two teams

[Larabee]

Many Vegas fans feel entitled at this point which is a complete joke.

I am quite sure that their Canadian born players are really impressed with their ignorant fans booing the Canadian anthem.

Sadly the Canadian born players probably don't care...they've left Canada behind as a distant memory.

 

[Whileee]

Hate to say it, but I think the Enstrom-Buff pairing has been really ineffective in the playoffs. I would go with Morrow-Buff (or Kulikov-Buff), and pair Enstrom with Myers and give that 3rd pairing some sheltering, where possible. Myers can play on LD with Buff later in the game, if necessary for offense. But I really don't like the Enstrom-Buff pairing right now.

 

[Larabee]

People complaining about Las Vegas success because it is their first year. I didn't see much complaining early in the season. Just sweeping generalization criticisms about how they can't be for real because they are a bunch of 3rd liners blah blah blah.

Are you guys watching the games and seeing how they are playing? They are earning every bit of their success. I can't think of a single shift that any one of them has taken off. And they hustle to the bench on line changes - wouldn't that be nice? Look at the gap that the D men play on our top line players - great system / great coaching. Forecheck / backcheck - causing turnovers all around the ice. Everyone is always moving. You can say MAF is 'stealing' the games but that is BS. Our guys aren't burying our chances. Frenchy - all he had to do was elevate the puck - he shoots it into MAF's pads and MAF is 'stealing' the game - it's BS. Laine rings it off the post - MAF didn't do squat - we hit the post - not even a SOG. We are spotting them 2 goals a game because they bust their ass to every puck, bust their ass on every back check, bust their ass back on every puck retrieval, bust their ass up ice on every turnover, bust their ass on every line change and then we say MAF is stealing the games. BS. It is time for us to put up or shut up. On paper we have the better roster. On the ice where it matters they are winning because they are beating us at hockey.

Personally, I think that if they beat us in this series it is because they earned it and we didn't.

You sort of miss the point. No doubt the Vegas players are giving 110% and deserve their success. But ownership and fans were gifted this roster... they haven't spent the time to draft and develop a single player. The expansion draft rules were far too generous to allow an expansion team this much success. It really makes the league to look like a joke.

 

[tntkid]

I can see why you would say that after seeing that douchebag
Marchessault show up to the game in a Lamborghini with the Knights logos on it.

At least most Canadian players tend to care when they represent their country at the Olympics or Worlds.

Sadly the Canadian born players probably don't care...they've left Canada behind as a distant memory.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Fleury was better than Bucky today. Scheifele was amazing like always but we can't win the Cup if he's the only one who can score.

I called scheif out in the first period though. He had a fluky goal, but he was not working anywhere close to 100%. I know what he is capable of doing, so I was yelling at him to try harder. He wasn't skating, attacking, he was slow etc. Nothing like the 3rd period Schief. (same goes for most of the team but I expect more of him).

Did Enstrom get benched third period? I saw a lot of Buff/Myers then. I still think we should have Morrow/Buff, Toby/Myers, but it's hard to throw someone in at this point of the playoffs. Enstrom was horrible last night.

Some of the younger guys are just ok, and I don't expect as much out of them, but our vets and semi-vets need to start the game like they ended this one. No one can beat us if we play 60 minutes of hockey like the third period last night. No one. Why we can't get up for a first period this close to the Stanley Cup is beyond me.

This team only seems to wake up when things get physical, otherwise they are simply not 'up' for the game. Maybe start the game with some huge hits and develop some animosity?

 

[Howard Chuck]

Vegas is pretty much a team of energy players, they come out like buzz saws with a crazy fore check and a suffocating style that gave Winnipeg little room and little time, especially in that first period. It's a successful way to play, obviously as it balances out the fact that they are the less skilled team, but it is a high energy way to play that cannot possibly be maintained over 60 minutes and hopefully not over the balance of a seven game series (if a team can hang around long enough to take them to seven).

A team playing that high energy needs to have their energy resources depleted as early as possible. Sure they swarm like kamikazes, but if they have to do that and get hit, smashed and slammed repeatedly it makes it all that much more difficult. If they, on top of that, are engaged in hard-nosed scrums after every whistle, that further saps the old energy - but if they are allowed to do the first without having to contend with the other two then we get what we saw these last two games. The better team stifled, smothered and swarmed into submission because they refuse to play hard-nosed playoff hockey. They have no real excuse for losing this series other than the other team simply outworked them. Lets hope something changes - wear them out and more of the game will look like the third period.

And geez, go to the net. I don't know how many times tonight I saw a player take a low percentage shot and his line mates stood still and watched the puck/rebound get swallowed by the goalie or cleared by a defender. This team needs a player (or players) who will go to that dirty area; for the top line not to do it is bad enough (because they are actually scoring), but to see these lower lines not following the puck to the net just seems like playoff disaster to me. I'd love to see some dirty, garbage goals the next game. Jets are still the better team and I still feel pretty good about them moving on.

Go Jets Go!!

Like everything about this post. Jets need to get physical right from the get-go. They also need to get shots on the net with traffic, nevermind shooting into the corner and losing possession or going for the bounce off the boards, that never works.

 

[Board Bard]

I called scheif out in the first period though. He had a fluky goal, but he was not working anywhere close to 100%. I know what he is capable of doing, so I was yelling at him to try harder. He wasn't skating, attacking, he was slow etc. Nothing like the 3rd period Schief. (same goes for most of the team but I expect more of him).

Did Enstrom get benched third period? I saw a lot of Buff/Myers then. I still think we should have Morrow/Buff, Toby/Myers, but it's hard to throw someone in at this point of the playoffs. Enstrom was horrible last night.

Some of the younger guys are just ok, and I don't expect as much out of them, but our vets and semi-vets need to start the game like they ended this one. No one can beat us if we play 60 minutes of hockey like the third period last night. No one. Why we can't get up for a first period this close to the Stanley Cup is beyond me.

This team only seems to wake up when things get physical, otherwise they are simply not 'up' for the game. Maybe start the game with some huge hits and develop some animosity?

In the games where the Sharks beat Vegas they laid on a liberal helping of body. Would be nice to see the Jets dish more out. Lowry, for example, has been a marshmallow.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

You sort of miss the point. No doubt the Vegas players are giving 110% and deserve their success. But ownership and fans were gifted this roster... they haven't spent the time to draft and develop a single player. The expansion draft rules were far too generous to allow an expansion team this much success. It really makes the league to look like a joke.

I call BS.

No one here was complaining after the draft or early in the season. There wasn't much talk about how these draft rules were too generous and that this expansion team was going to be allowed to have too much success. When I was saying that they are for real back in November, I was (in a polite kind of way) told that I was crazy and they were going to collapse. No one then was saying 'wow you know what these expansion draft rules were far too generous to allow an expansion team this much success' or anything like that.

The league does not look like a joke. The GM's who made bad decisions about who not to protect look like a joke. No one said Florida needed to give up Marchessault. The teams that are gliding to the bench on a bad change leading to breakaway goals the other way look like a joke. Why? Because there is an expansion team with the best coach and with a bunch of hard working 'third liners' and 'second paring or replacement level' d men who are willing to work their way to success.

The only reason people here are calling out this 'gift' now is because they are being successful. You know what, they are earning their success. And it stings because we all know that we have a better roster. But they have a better coach with a system that works against us, and they are out hustling us.

How about a baby step. Can our fakking coach yell at some people and tell them to bust their asses when making line changes? And not to make a line change if the puck isn't deep. And if you are not sure if it has made it deep, swivel your head (that is what god gave you a neck for) to see if it is deep as you start to bust your ass toward the bench for a change. If we can do that little baby step I will sleep 12 more minutes each night because we will give up one less goal per game.

 

[tbcwpg]

The whole "Vegas fluked into this thanks to generous expansion draft rules" line of thinking just sounds like sour grapes to me. They're deserving of their current spot based on play alone this season. The whole league is supposed to be moving to "parity".

It also shows just how big a role a good goaltender plays in success.

 

[thegr8one66]

When you really think about it we are really short on experience and it' starting to show:

Playoff rookies:

Ehlers
Laine
Connor
Morrissey
Helle
Copp
Tanev
Armia
Roslovic

That is three top 6 players, a top pairing dmen and our number 1 goalie as well as half our bottom 6.

Add to that the following players had less than 5 games of experience heading in:

Scheifele
Trouba
Little
Lowry
Chariot
Toby

That works out to 3/4 of our starting lineup being incredibly short on experience. Is it any wonder that there have been growing pains. In fact I think the team has done very well to make it where they have. The good news is that their is still so much growth potential with our young guys.

Experience is so overrated. If experience mattered, the team who has the most players who have been to the playoffs time and time again will make the deepest postseason run. it's a cop-out by people needing an excuse for losing. Vegas has zero year's experience playing together...and they're doing just fine. Our biggest issue is coaching and line-up decisions.

 

[Board Bard]

I call BS.

No one here was complaining after the draft or early in the season. There wasn't much talk about how these draft rules were too generous and that this expansion team was going to be allowed to have too much success. When I was saying that they are for real back in November, I was (in a polite kind of way) told that I was crazy and they were going to collapse. No one then was saying 'wow you know what these expansion draft rules were far too generous to allow an expansion team this much success' or anything like that.

I was saying that -- before the draft, during the draft, and after the draft -- and I wasn't the only one. The rest I pretty much agree with. Lots of people were saying it would be "good for the league" to have a strong team in Vegas. Good call. How about now, when that act of altruism is 120 minutes away from completing the ambush and punting their team into the als0-ran pretender bin?

 

[suihkukone]

so, no speculation on the Ehlers injury?
i find it to be slightly odd.

Speculation we don't need, but some info would be nice.

I thought Maurice was supposed to "elaborate" in the post game interview, but guess not:
Q: Paul, can you expand at all on what kept Ehlers out of this game and when did you know of this decision and all those sort of things?
A: Ehm, this morning and no.

I find this odd, too.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Hopefully that pressure play in the 3rd period is the result of understanding what they have to do to beat Vegas. The Jets are more skilled no one is doubting that. VGK are proving that hard work can beat skill. The Jets have to outwork them or they are not going to win the series.

They should have figured it out after game 2, most of us did. If coaches and players are having difficulty figuring out how they have to play at this time of year, then we are lost.

I'm trying not to make my posts negative. I don't want to see roster changes, I just want them to go for it every period. The effort level in period one and most of two was absolutely pathetic for a WCF. If you can't get up for this, what can you get up for?

As we all keep saying, if we start awesome (like we normally do) Vegas will be back on their heels unable to keep up with the offence. It's hard work, but the solution is painfully obvious.

 

[Gotaf7]

We are only down 1 game, win tomorrow and its a best of 3 with home ice advantage. I am not worried yet, although I am concerned about Bucky, he has let in some stinkers in the last 2 games.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I didn't get to watch the game but it seems clear to me that we need some secondary scoring. No player can drag a team to the cup on their own. Sounds like Scheifele was the one who came closest to tying it up as well.

Also what is up with allowing goals in and around the 1st minute of the game? That has happened several times during the playoffs and it's such a deflating way to start a game.

I keep hearing this, and it's true, but secondary scoring will come if we work like we did in the third period. It's a team sport and less talented players simply can't score in the environment of periods 1 and 2. We need to be tied or ahead for the rest of the team to be able to beat a team that plays like Vegas.

 

[thegr8one66]

People complaining about Las Vegas success because it is their first year. I didn't see much complaining early in the season. Just sweeping generalization criticisms about how they can't be for real because they are a bunch of 3rd liners blah blah blah.

Are you guys watching the games and seeing how they are playing? They are earning every bit of their success. I can't think of a single shift that any one of them has taken off. And they hustle to the bench on line changes - wouldn't that be nice? Look at the gap that the D men play on our top line players - great system / great coaching. Forecheck / backcheck - causing turnovers all around the ice. Everyone is always moving. You can say MAF is 'stealing' the games but that is BS. Our guys aren't burying our chances. Frenchy - all he had to do was elevate the puck - he shoots it into MAF's pads and MAF is 'stealing' the game - it's BS. Laine rings it off the post - MAF didn't do squat - we hit the post - not even a SOG. We are spotting them 2 goals a game because they bust their ass to every puck, bust their ass on every back check, bust their ass back on every puck retrieval, bust their ass up ice on every turnover, bust their ass on every line change and then we say MAF is stealing the games. BS. It is time for us to put up or shut up. On paper we have the better roster. On the ice where it matters they are winning because they are beating us at hockey.

Personally, I think that if they beat us in this series it is because they earned it and we didn't.

You're exactly right. Vegas has figured the Jets out after Game 1. They are faster. Better coached. The play the best team game I've ever seen. They give the Jets zero time with the puck. And for all of the Jet's fans who think Vegas' goals were simply just Jets' mistakes.....the goals are the result of Vegas forcing those mistakes.

And Fleury is getting way more credit than he deserves. Lol. His acrobatic saves are a result of him being out of position. And I don't think he's honestly been tested, as our shots are low percentage scoring shots (obviously, not all of them). His play is the result of the great team defence in front of him suffocating opponents and forcing harmless shots against. Yes...he's playing well....but not to the extent I read on HF. He's still the mentally-weak goalie that I've watched since 2005....just has a better team defence system in front of him.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Vegas did pay 500 million for a team they were not gifted anything. Plus they were lambasted on these boards when they made there team. Derek Engelland? Bellemare? etc..

 

[rubikscube]

They already played like they did in the second half of that game. It happened in the second half of that game. They went from being down by 1 goal to losing by 2 goals. They're going to have to play better than that.

wut

 

[surixon]

They should have figured it out after game 2, most of us did. If coaches and players are having difficulty figuring out how they have to play at this time of year, then we are lost.

I'm trying not to make my posts negative. I don't want to see roster changes, I just want them to go for it every period. The effort level in period one and most of two was absolutely pathetic for a WCF. If you can't get up for this, what can you get up for?

As we all keep saying, if we start awesome (like we normally do) Vegas will be back on their heels unable to keep up with the offence. It's hard work, but the solution is painfully obvious.

It' easier said then done. I think they lost some of their edge after taking out the Preds. Got a bit too full of themselves and the accomplishment. As a result the energy levels dropped and you got game two and half of game 3. Imo they got embarrassed into getting their edge back. You can say it should be u acceptable that they couldn't get up for the game until that point but that too me is just Inexperience. I expect to see a different Jets team the rest of the way as I think they now have their heads back in the game.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Really hope the Jets can come out with much better efforts right out of the gate on Friday. One thing I didn't want to see but I did early last night was the Jets D taking their time getting the puck, and taking their time to try to move it up the ice. I think the way that Vegas is game-planning, that the Jets have to get the puck quick and either one pass it up the ice, or just flip it out to the neutral zone and attack it with speed.

Absolutely. I yelled at the tv many times "Don't hurry, no one is trying to forecheck you....Ooops!". I just don't understand. Not only the D but Scheif did that at least once in the first period, actually slowed down getting the puck instead of skating, and was forechecked and lost possession.

How many games is it going to take before we start to realize what the Vegas game plan is?

 

[Howard Chuck]

Really hope the Jets can come out with much better efforts right out of the gate on Friday. One thing I didn't want to see but I did early last night was the Jets D taking their time getting the puck, and taking their time to try to move it up the ice. I think the way that Vegas is game-planning, that the Jets have to get the puck quick and either one pass it up the ice, or just flip it out to the neutral zone and attack it with speed.

Absolutely. I yelled at the tv many times "Don't hurry, no one is trying to forecheck you....Ooops!". I just don't understand. Not only the D but Scheif did that at least once in the first period, actually slowed down getting the puck instead of skating, and was forechecked and lost possession.

How many games is it going to take before we start to realize what the Vegas game plan is?

 

[Board Bard]

They should have figured it out after game 2, most of us did. If coaches and players are having difficulty figuring out how they have to play at this time of year, then we are lost.

They should have figured it out before puck drop in game 1 (actually before puck drop in game 1 vs. Minny, and it should have never left their consciousness). Were their scouts telling them Vegas was a lackadaisical team that arrogantly liked to coast and float? When they were at home watching Vegas on the tube, did they manage to only see the substandard games Vegas played? How about when they played Vegas three times during the season and lost two of them, including one at home? Did they think that was a mirage that would evaporate in warmer weather? Every hockey fan in the world -- never mind the so-called professionals in the Jets org -- should have known what Vegas was going to bring to the series, especially as they had already done it in two previous series. Of course, those two series were against Pacific teams, and everybody knows Pacific teams are garbage and half-assed Vegas didn't even have to break a sweat to beat them. So I guess it makes sense that the Jets believed they wouldn't have to break a sweat either to beat vastly inferior Vegas.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I was saying that -- before the draft, during the draft, and after the draft -- and I wasn't the only one. The rest I pretty much agree with. Lots of people were saying it would be "good for the league" to have a strong team in Vegas. Good call. How about now, when that act of altruism is 120 minutes away from completing the ambush and punting their team into the als0-ran pretender bin?

Great. You were one of the few then. Yes, I know that some were pissed because each team had to expose a guy or 2 they didn't want to lose. So that on it's own brings out complaints about the process. But if you were predicting this level of success due to expansion draft rules, you were definitely one of the few.

I view their success as separate from their roster. I think they have a good roster, not a great one. But a great coach with a great system who is getting the most on every shift out of every player in the lineup. No one takes any time off. And MAF is playing well, but they clean up a lot of stuff around him. That's how we have won a lot of games this year.

And if they get to the SC final, I will be sad, heartbroken and pissed. But not pissed at them, at us. I can't be upset with them, because they will have earned it.

 

[Board Bard]

Great. You were one of the few then. Yes, I know that some were pissed because each team had to expose a guy or 2 they didn't want to lose. So that on it's own brings out complaints about the process. But if you were predicting this level of success due to expansion draft rules, you were definitely one of the few.

I view their success as separate from their roster. I think they have a good roster, not a great one. But a great coach with a great system who is getting the most on every shift out of every player in the lineup. No one takes any time off. And MAF is playing well, but they clean up a lot of stuff around him. That's how we have won a lot of games this year.

And if they get to the SC final, I will be sad, heartbroken and pissed. But not pissed at them, at us. I can't be upset with them, because they will have earned it.

No, I wasn't predicting this level of success. I'm not Kreskin. I thought the x-draft rules were really stupid, way too generous. Having said that, I agree that they have absolutely made the most of what they have, the players and coaches. If the Jets worked as hard and played as smart throughout the playoffs they might be sitting at home now waiting for the east to offer up the final victim.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I expect to see a different Jets team the rest of the way as I think they now have their heads back in the game.

I sure hope so since we now have to win three out of the next four games.