A Tale of 2 Hobey Baker Finalists.

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Great start for Hirose. He looks like a keeper.
I don't think he is any better than Nyquist was when he graduated and Nyquist toiled in the minors for 3+ seasons as Holland kept adding redundant veteran depth that weren't as good as Nyquist (and Tatar and perhaps even some of the other younger guys like Mursak) preventing them form having a chance at playing on the team.
The cap space used on unnecessary redundant veteran depth which was preventing better players from playing could have been used on acquiring an impact player and kept them as perennial Cup contenders that they have been until then and precipitated the decline to finally tanking this year (although they are much better team in tank mode than when they are trying to win, I think this speaks volumes about the team's management).

Click to read more...

 

[Snuggs]

Solid rant. Well documented. You're not even saying anything outragous in most peoples eyes...

But why aren't you giving him credit for the past two years? He's made really good/solid trades. While drafting/developing well. A few minor blunders with the NTC in Vaneks contract and not bringing younger guys up sooner but... ultimately if it was the last 10 games or mid January the Red Wings still weren't in a playoff hunt/picture.

It raises an eyebrow for sure that the younger core is looking so much better than whats been thrown out most of the season, but at the same time is a small sample size in the awkward part of the season for a lot of teams(playoff teams getting healthy, other non playoff teams tanking/giving younger guys a shot).

A lot more can be drawn from Ken Holland by mid December imo of next season. For now Jury is out, I'm not crowning him to turn Yzerman away a 2nd time personally, but he's worthy of a lot of other jobs in the NHL compared to others available. He's drafted well and not driven the train totally into the ground. The Larkin contract might look great in a year or two if its not already looking good/like a bargain.

 

[Henkka]

It raises an eyebrow for sure that the younger core is looking so much better than whats been thrown out most of the season, but at the same time is a small sample size in the awkward part of the season for a lot of teams(playoff teams getting healthy, other non playoff teams tanking/giving younger guys a shot).

They are motivated and not exhausted after a 70-game schedule.

And there's teams against them, which have lost their motivation or are preparing for the playoffs taking off-night against a lesser opponent.

Only full season tells the whole story.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

Solid rant. Well documented. You're not even saying anything outragous in most peoples eyes...

But why aren't you giving him credit for the past two years? He's made really good/solid trades. While drafting/developing well. A few minor blunders with the NTC in Vaneks contract and not bringing younger guys up sooner but... ultimately if it was the last 10 games or mid January the Red Wings still weren't in a playoff hunt/picture.

It raises an eyebrow for sure that the younger core is looking so much better than whats been thrown out most of the season, but at the same time is a small sample size in the awkward part of the season for a lot of teams(playoff teams getting healthy, other non playoff teams tanking/giving younger guys a shot).

A lot more can be drawn from Ken Holland by mid December imo of next season. For now Jury is out, I'm not crowning him to turn Yzerman away a 2nd time personally, but he's worthy of a lot of other jobs in the NHL compared to others available. He's drafted well and not driven the train totally into the ground. The Larkin contract might look great in a year or two if its not already looking good/like a bargain.

Wtf???
He just extended Blashill. He is still signing redundant veteran depth which is impeding younger guys from being on the team. They are supposedly in a "rebuild" and still have one of the oldest teams in the league.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

Wtf???
He just extended Blashill. He is still signing redundant veteran depth which is impeding younger guys from being on the team. They are supposedly in a "rebuild" and still have one of the oldest teams in the league.

Redundant. Awesome word.
This Holland argument, also redundant.
Bait threads, another use of the word redundant.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Wtf???
He just extended Blashill. He is still signing redundant veteran depth which is impeding younger guys from being on the team. They are supposedly in a "rebuild" and still have one of the oldest teams in the league.

What young players has he impeded this past season? Zadina wasn't ready and to be honest it made more sense to have him in the AHL this season for expansion purposes anyways. There isn't anyone in GR that is playing so well that they deserve playing time; you can make the argument that the defence is a bit of a mess in terms of playing time but a lot of those contracts are from prior years. I'd have actually preferred to have seen Rasmussen just get a 9 game tryout as well and spend the year in the WHL.

I'm not one to love all of Holland's moves, but he has done a good job of allowing young players to grab open spots in the lineup over the past 2 seasons. An NHL team still needs to have NHL caliber talent playing throughout the lineup and you need to have some sort of "leadership" core as well. The Wings have only recently committed to a rebuild so it makes sense that the average age of the roster would be older. Over the next few years that number should quickly fall as we say goodbye to Daley, Ericsson, Green, Kronwall, and many others. If we're still pushing 30+ in 2-3 years then the rebuild has not gone to plan and we should be having a discussion about our drafting/development system.

 

[RedMenace]

He just extended Blashill.

Did I miss something?

 

[Dotter]

Wtf???
He just extended Blashill.

Cool. What's the terms? Source?

 

[TheMule93]

Did I miss something?

Cool. What's the terms? Source?

Detroit Red Wings expected to extend Jeff Blashill — for more than 1 season

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Great start for Hirose. He looks like a keeper.
I don't think he is any better than Nyquist was when he graduated and Nyquist toiled in the minors for 3+ seasons as Holland kept adding redundant veteran depth that weren't as good as Nyquist (and Tatar and perhaps even some of the other younger guys like Mursak) preventing them form having a chance at playing on the team.
The cap space used on unnecessary redundant veteran depth which was preventing better players from playing could have been used on acquiring an impact player and kept them as perennial Cup contenders that they have been until then and precipitated the decline to finally tanking this year (although they are much better team in tank mode than when they are trying to win, I think this speaks volumes about the team's management).

This opinion is unpopular on here but it is 100% correct. To be where we are and have a salary cap this high for this long and haven't had a 30 goal scorer in ten years until a few days ago speaks volumes to the mismanagement of Holland. He has never fired a coach in his tenure and overvalued his own players, gave player friendly deals for years and put us in this avoidable hell.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

I've given him a lot of shit and yes much of it is justified but these last few years he's improved a LOT. He's done so many good things for this team but sadly all those NTCs, absurd FA signings and a loyalty to over the hill veterans will cloud that

 

[NickH8]

My take on Holland is that I'm happy he recognized the need to rebuild and is leaving on a positive note, but I don't trust him to carry us out of the rebuild.

 

[RedMenace]

Detroit Red Wings expected to extend Jeff Blashill — for more than 1 season

So then it hasn't happened yet, like I thought. Just making sure.

 

[GrGriffins]

So then it hasn't happened yet, like I thought. Just making sure.

It could be official as soon as this Tuesday.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Wtf???
He just extended Blashill. He is still signing redundant veteran depth which is impeding younger guys from being on the team. They are supposedly in a "rebuild" and still have one of the oldest teams in the league.

1). Hasn’t extended Blash yet. Plans to, but hasn’t just yet.
2). What redundant veterans? He signed Vanek, but Vanek isn’t redundant, he actually provides something different than most of the rest of the team when he plays. The biggest signings this year were Larkin, Mantha, and AA. None of whom are redundant nor veteran depth. Hell, Taro Hirose has proven to be a much bigger signing than Thomas Vanek.
3). Impeding the young players? That’s why Rasmussen was on the team from the word go, right? Why Cholowski and Hronek have been up the majority of the year and some rotation of DLR, Frk, Ehn, Megan, etc were in heavy play for a good chunk of the year.

Lastly, look at the guys actually doing stuff for the Wings. It’s all the young bucks. Look at the roster today. I bet you it’s not one of the oldest in the league right now.

The Wings are actually being intelligent about breaking down their old system to the new system. As soon as they land the elite talent they need to compete (through lottery win, FA or a blockbuster trade). They’ll be ready to go. They won’t be Buffalo who has WAY more quality in terms of player assets but is actually performing at a much crappier level. They won’t let themselves be so desperate that they trade a Hart level player for a top 4D.

Rebuilding doesn’t mean trade everyone who isn’t nailed down. Any team that does it that way pretty much invariably flops. Chicago didn’t do that. Pittsburgh didn’t do that.

 

[RedMenace]

It could be official as soon as this Tuesday.

Right, but...

 

[Gniwder]

Rebuilding doesn’t mean trade everyone who isn’t nailed down. Any team that does it that way pretty much invariably flops. Chicago didn’t do that. Pittsburgh didn’t do that.

Pittsburgh didn't have any talent to trade, their top player was Ryan Malone with 22 goals. They also got lucky with the lockout the year they bottomed, so they got both Crosby and Malkin.

Washington sold off everything, Lang, Jagr, Bondra, Gonchar, Zubrus, Grier, Witt, Nylander, and Carter. That's how they landed Ovy.

 

[Ingvar]

I got excited after reading the title expecting some player comparisons, maybe even reading about Brendan Smith. Instead it's another Ken Holland thread - so disappointing.

 

[Dotter]

Detroit Red Wings expected to extend Jeff Blashill — for more than 1 season

I wish they'd get it done already. Blashill proving to be a good coach that helps the kids develop. Hirose ppg, Mantha 5 point night, AA 30 goals, Hronek looking solid. Larkin (Helm with hands) proving to be a star player.

 

[lomekian]

Pittsburgh didn't have any talent to trade, their top player was Ryan Malone with 22 goals. They also got lucky with the lockout the year they bottomed, so they got both Crosby and Malkin.

Washington sold off everything, Lang, Jagr, Bondra, Gonchar, Zubrus, Grier, Witt, Nylander, and Carter. That's how they landed Ovy.

In both cases, they didn't artificially find themselves there because they were chasing the top pick. They sold players off for other reasons. The Pens were financially screwed and the Caps just made a whole load of bad trades in a row.

 

[JustJokinenAround]

1). Hasn’t extended Blash yet. Plans to, but hasn’t just yet.
2). What redundant veterans? He signed Vanek, but Vanek isn’t redundant, he actually provides something different than most of the rest of the team when he plays. The biggest signings this year were Larkin, Mantha, and AA. None of whom are redundant nor veteran depth. Hell, Taro Hirose has proven to be a much bigger signing than Thomas Vanek.
3). Impeding the young players? That’s why Rasmussen was on the team from the word go, right? Why Cholowski and Hronek have been up the majority of the year and some rotation of DLR, Frk, Ehn, Megan, etc were in heavy play for a good chunk of the year.

Lastly, look at the guys actually doing stuff for the Wings. It’s all the young bucks. Look at the roster today. I bet you it’s not one of the oldest in the league right now.

for what its worth, they are the tied for the 4th oldest team in the league. only pittsburgh, la, and minnesota are older and they are tied with san jose.
NHL: Roster Breakdowns by Age

 

[NickH8]

for what its worth, they are the tied for the 4th oldest team in the league. only pittsburgh, la, and minnesota are older and they are tied with san jose.
NHL: Roster Breakdowns by Age

Does that count Franzen and Zetterberg? We really only have 4 old guys at forward (Nielsen, Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening). Our defense is old but that will change soon.

 

[JustJokinenAround]

Does that count Franzen and Zetterberg? We really only have 4 old guys at forward (Nielsen, Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening). Our defense is old but that will change soon.

i don't think so. vanek is old obviously but to me that doesn't count because they won't bring him back. on defense they have daley, ericsson, and kronwall all 35+ for next year and jimmy is 35+. i know kronwall doesn't have a deal for next year but i'm convinced they keep him around.

i don't see where any young players are being blocked though so not a huge deal to me, they are going to be bad next year unless the weaponize their cap space to bring in 30+ 3rd and 4th liners.

 

[NickH8]

i don't think so. vanek is old obviously but to me that doesn't count because they won't bring him back. on defense they have daley, ericsson, and kronwall all 35+ for next year and jimmy is 35+. i know kronwall doesn't have a deal for next year but i'm convinced they keep him around.

i don't see where any young players are being blocked though so not a huge deal to me, they are going to be bad next year unless the weaponize their cap space to bring in 30+ 3rd and 4th liners.

Yeah, it's really just because our old guys are very old.

 

[rbartnik]

So... what about the other Hobey Baker finalist?

EDIT: Oh. I thought you referring to Kuffner, who is not a Hobey Baker finalist. Excuse my bout of dumb, please.