Books: A Song of Ice and Fire *SPOILERS* Part XV

[Rabid Ranger]

Having just watched the finale, I have no real complaints on it specifically. Have some problems with how we got here, but for how the stage was set I was happy with the ending.

A couple other thoughts though, I feel like D&D's Jon knifing Dany scene was 'borrowed' from what GRRM has planned for Jamie and Cersei. This is a major point I just can't resolve between the two. In the show's finale Dany starts going off about wanting to conquer everyone, and that's fine it kind of fits her character here.

But in the books with it's much greater detail and complexity, in Dance she's been getting the lesson hammered home that she can't just do this through the first slaver city (was it Astapor?) where she took the unsullied, killed the masters, and left the city appointing two wise elders to rule. Who were promptly killed by a butcher, who took over as a tyrannical king, constantly petitioning Dany for aid through Dance as the city turned into a nightmarish ****show of disease, famine, and eventual reconquest by the slavers.

Basically, unless I recall wrong I don't think book Dany ever uttered the words "I will break the wheel", and show Dany never learned the same lessons that would specifically deter her from thinking she could just go and conquer the **** out of the world and make everything better for it - which is why Jon killed her knowing how horrible that would be.

It seems a lot of what we saw on screen was cobbled together from disparate story elements in the books. That bugs me in a big way.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Ignoring for a moment that I don't think the books will ever be completed, I'm unconvinced that the story will actually be better in the books. I expect the ending to be very similar, maybe a few character swaps for the outcomes but the same outcomes essentially, but a far more detailed and fleshed out journey to get there. The issue is that based on the last two books largely being a slog, I don't have high hopes that the more detailed journey will really be high quality compared to the rushed journey we got in the show.

The books problems are going to be the bloat of characters. GRRM can’t possibly give them all satisfying conclusions. Characters are going to have to make out of character choices to get them to where they need to be as well. It’s inevitable.

As for the ending. I doubt you see the smaller details like Bronn rising so high, but I suspect Bran as King will happen.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

“True, Martin gave them a rough outline of how this story will end. But a rough outline will no more guarantee a well constructed story than an architect’s blueprint would guarantee a well built house.”

- Nick Cohen

Sums up these last two seasons quite well.

 

[RandV]

So fanfic time! If the books end up more or less the same with Jon going back over the wall does that mean he's going to end hooking up with Val the hot wildling princess?

 

[Emperoreddy]

So fanfic time! If the books end up more or less the same with Jon going back over the wall does that mean he's going to end hooking up with Val the hot wildling princess?

It’s my headcanon until George says otherwise.

 

[NyQuil]

Jon gets stabbed to death by Tormund when just out of eyeshot of the Wall.

 

[Moncherry]

So fanfic time! If the books end up more or less the same with Jon going back over the wall does that mean he's going to end hooking up with Val the hot wildling princess?

If that happens, it's more likely it happens sooner rather than later. Stannis already offered her as a wife when he wanted to name him the Lord of Winterfell. The same scenario already happened in the show, the difference is they didn't include Val. So if (when) Jon comes back to life, and he's released from his oath to the Night's Watch, I can see him marrying Val, and becoming the King of the North as well as the Free Folk, similar to what happens in the show. There was a little too much emphasis on her being made out to be a 'princess' and there was clearly a thing between her and Jon.

Or it could just be my own BS theory and head canon.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

After what happened on the show I would just as soon avoid the Dany/Jon relationship in the books. Not my desired outcome. Probably won't be so fortunate though.

 

[discostu]

Jon gets stabbed to death by Tormund when just out of eyeshot of the Wall.

Nah. Tormund turns around when he finds out that Brienne is back on the market.

 

[Moncherry]

Nah. Tormund turns around when he finds out that Brienne is back on the market.

Well she's Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, so not exactly.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

At the conclusion of Roberts Rebellion, why did Robert give Stannis Dragonstone rather than Storm's End?

 

[Bures Elbow]

After what happened on the show I would just as soon avoid the Dany/Jon relationship in the books. Not my desired outcome. Probably won't be so fortunate though.

It would be so much better developed and done in the books. Her descent into tyrannical madness due to losing everybody and Jon making her full isolated/neglected, and Jon's internal conflict after discovering his identity and his relation to her would make it so much more tragic and gut punching.

 

[Bures Elbow]

At the conclusion of Roberts Rebellion, why did Robert give Stannis Dragonstone rather than Storm's End?

According to Stannis it was a slight, he thought Robert preferred Renly as a brother. According to Robert he gave it to Stannis because he held out for over a year under siege, and the holder of Dragonstone was always titled "prince"..reaffirming Stannis as Roberts direct heir until a son was born.

 

[MadDevil]

At the conclusion of Roberts Rebellion, why did Robert give Stannis Dragonstone rather than Storm's End?

Traditionally Dragonstone was given to the heir apparent to the throne. Since Robert had no children when he took the throne Stannis would have been that heir.

 

[Bures Elbow]

So fanfic time! If the books end up more or less the same with Jon going back over the wall does that mean he's going to end hooking up with Val the hot wildling princess?

I think he ends up with her or Sansa (only cousins in a medieval setting and they were never close..could see it as a twist..)

If Val, Stannis beats the Boltons/Freys as it's set up based on the preview chapter..somehow retakes Winterfell or loses just before it (Manderly betrayal? Though they will support him with a Stark by his side)..if he takes Winterfell he loses when the Others break through the wall or something. Setting up Jon and Sansa (with the Vale after her reveal, unless someone kidnaps her as key people know shes not Alayne Stone via clever questions) to retake the north before the showdown

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

One thing I’m pretty certain that will be different is the effect Bran has on the story. The Hodor death was straight from GRRM and it opened the possibility to Bran’s present self effecting the past, although the past will have already be altered.

I am 99% sure that this will be further explored and have bigger consequences than Hodor dying.

 

[Emperoreddy]

One thing I’m pretty certain that will be different is the effect Bran has on the story. The Hodor death was straight from GRRM and it opened the possibility to Bran’s present self effecting the past, although the past will have already be altered.

I am 99% sure that this will be further explored and have bigger consequences than Hodor dying.

I think you are right. The Hodor reveal was a Chekhov Gun the show never fired, but almost has to be one GRRM intends to fire.

I suspect the books will reveal the 3ER/Bran have puppet mastered many events to lead to this exact outcome where Bran becomes king. Like Doctor Strange’s “there was no other way” on steroids.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I think you are right. The Hodor reveal was a Chekhov Gun the show never fired, but almost has to be one GRRM intends to fire.

I suspect the books will reveal the 3ER/Bran have puppet mastered many events to lead to this exact outcome where Bran becomes king. Like Doctor Strange’s “there was no other way” on steroids.

At the very least I think it'll be left open to interpretation but there being some argument of it. A bit harder of a thing to portray on television, I think. Or maybe D&D couldn't pull the trigger.

 

[Emperoreddy]

At the very least I think it'll be left open to interpretation but there being some argument of it. A bit harder of a thing to portray on television, I think. Or maybe D&D couldn't pull the trigger.

I think it’s a slippery slope because time travel is always that. Could play a part in the hold up with the books. GRRM is having trouble making it connect in a way that is satisfying and makes sense.

Hodor and the King Bran reveal just feel like GRRM artifacts the show didn’t want to really explore either due to time or not knowing how.

 

[Emperoreddy]

An Ending | Not a Blog

George’s ending thoughts. Not in the least bit salty.

 

[Eisen]

I think you are right. The Hodor reveal was a Chekhov Gun the show never fired, but almost has to be one GRRM intends to fire.

I suspect the books will reveal the 3ER/Bran have puppet mastered many events to lead to this exact outcome where Bran becomes king. Like Doctor Strange’s “there was no other way” on steroids.

That's OT but which Doctor Strange book was that? It wasn't in the movie, was it?

 

[Emperoreddy]

That's OT but which Doctor Strange book was that? It wasn't in the movie, was it?

Meant his line in Infinity War to Tony

 

[Plural]

An Ending | Not a Blog

George’s ending thoughts. Not in the least bit salty.

Nice and cozy read. I really, really hope he writes Dream of Spring

 

[Eisen]

Nice and cozy read. I really, really hope he writes Dream of Spring

Me too, I really hope so. But I don't see it.

Meant his line in Infinity War to Tony

Now I remember, thanks.

 

[Plural]

Me too, I rally hope so. But I don't see it.

Me neither. Winds of Winter is possible I quess.