Recalled/Assigned: A slew of moves

[Winger98]

I think last night either Ken or Trevor explained that the Kaski and Kuffner recalls had to do with getting the most relief possible from putting Zetterberg and Franzen on LTIR.

Is this a thing where once we put guys on LTIR to not break the cap ceiling, we have the overage all season regardless of whether or not it's needed?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Really hate all this lumping of Helm with Abdelkader. Helm is still a good NHL player, who is good at what he does. He is a good forechecker even if a little slower now, and still does good things many shifts. Abdelkader does nothing on pretty much every shift. Helm still belongs in the NHL while Abby doesn't. Helm isn't here for offence, never was.

I think it's warranted. I mean, his contract and performance isn't as completely garbage as Abby's but he's still overpaid for what he brings and seems to be on a pretty significant decline.

He no longer has exceptional speed and there's players who bring what he does for a whole lot cheaper. Even with the contract length, Helm is making more than a player like Filppula. That's crazy. And having $8 million tied up in Abby and Helm is even more ridiculous. The good news is that Helm's bad contract ends next season.

 

[Oddbob]

Dude, Helm looks like he's taken another step back. He played 9 mins tonight. Didn't even PK, Abby spent 3 mins killing penalties.

Helm looked absolutely fine, and Abdelkader only had his first good game in about 300 games.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think it's warranted. I mean, his contract and performance isn't as completely garbage as Abby's but he's still overpaid for what he brings and seems to be on a pretty significant decline.

He no longer has exceptional speed and there's players who bring what he does for a whole lot cheaper. Even with the contract length, Helm is making more than a player like Filppula. That's crazy. And having $8 million tied up in Abby and Helm is even more ridiculous. The good news is that Helm's bad contract ends next season.

Abdelkader has been the better of the two through three games by a pretty good margin in my opinion. We will see where it goes, both contracts stink and at least Helm's ends earlier. Helm and Hirose have been the worst Wings at forward for me to start the season.

 

[Ezekial]

Helm looked absolutely fine, and Abdelkader only had his first good game in about 300 games.

Maybe to you. He hasn't looked very good to me, and he's looked definitively worse than Abby in all 3 games imo.

Abby could have a solid 20 game stretch and people would bitch about him every day, it would be like DDK last year. Not that I'm a fan, but Abdelkader has looked completely fine in his role this year.

 

[Ricelund]

I know it's been beaten to death but I can't believe Abdelkader has three years left after this one...

 

[Mlotek]

I'm well aware of the NTC etc. But convincing a cupless, aging, former All-star Dman whose game & health are declining to go play for a PO team or a true contender shouldn't be difficult.

True, but Green has been reluctant to move.


Consider that at the 2018 deadline his approved trade list contained a whopping 2 teams (per the Athletic).
Last year it was rumoured he rejected a trade to Toronto. Think the source was someone at Rogers Sportsnet.

Hell, even Vanek and Kronwall rejected trades last season. Vanek rejected a trade to Boston at the deadline for a late round pick. Kronwall mentioned during Red White authority podcast that Holland had offers for him and allowed Kronner to make decision wether he stays or does.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Is this a thing where once we put guys on LTIR to not break the cap ceiling, we have the overage all season regardless of whether or not it's needed?

Yes. And if I'm reading CapFriendly correctly, the Red Wings will actually "accrue" actual cap space most of the season because they will likely operate under their new limit (or ACSL). This is why teams finagle with oddball recalls and demotions before putting guys on LTIR.

It looks like Yzerman got the perfect storm with injuries to get as close to the limit as possible. Franzen, Zetterberg, AA, Ericsson, Daley and Nielsen on regular IR, and then recalling Svechnikov, Biega, Kuffner and Kaski (at whatever their prorated hits were after spending a few days of the NHL season demoted/with another team) got them to just $25.5k under the $81.5M limit. If needed, they can now go $10,037,878 over their ACSL of $81,474,570 for the rest of the year. If they get under the ACSL (which they did when Kaski and Kuffner went back down, and will further once a couple other players go down), they will gain cap space for the rest of the season.

I'm going to guess they took advantage to gain the most flexibility:

-They can add some big salary in a trade if they want
-With the opening roster salary and no one on LTIR, they had some cap space, but if enough guys ended up on IR (like 4 or more), they'd start to get limited in terms of being able to recall some of their higher dollar ELC's and would have to rely on the emergency exemption (which only allows you to recall guys with a cap hit of equal to or less than $100k over league minimum)
-The accrued cap from not going over the ACSL could absorb all or most of any performance bonuses for this season that might have otherwise spilled into next season

 

[Mlotek]

-They can add some big salary in a trade if they want
-With the opening roster salary and no one on LTIR, they had some cap space, but if enough guys ended up on IR (like 4 or more), they'd start to get limited in terms of being able to recall some of their higher dollar ELC's and would have to rely on the emergency exemption (which only allows you to recall guys with a cap hit of equal to or less than $100k over league minimum)
-The accrued cap from not going over the ACSL could absorb all or most of any performance bonuses for this season that might have otherwise spilled into next season

The high dollar ELCs shouldn't matter. Against the cap their minimum NHL salary is applied, and the 'performance bonuses' would be applied to the performance bonus cushion limit.

The team can go 7.5% over the cap in potential 'performance bonuses' during the regular season. It is considered a cushion because there is no guarantee the bonus conditions will be met. If the performance bonuses take the team over the cap over the entire season, a penalty is applied to the next season.

That is the same trick Holland used with Alfredsson making the contract bonus heavy for playing a handful of games. IIRC, Wings got stuck with the overture penalty the following season due to Alfredsson's bonus.

 

[ShelbyZ]

The high dollar ELCs shouldn't matter. Against the cap their minimum NHL salary is applied, and the 'performance bonuses' would be applied to the performance bonus cushion limit.

Yes, I understand that part completely. I was pointing to some extreme 18-19 Arizona Coyotes scenario where they have a ton of injuries (and to make it more extreme none injured long term enough to land on LTIR) and (at least early in the season) the $3.5M or so cap space they had would eventually limit how many guys they could recall that have a cap hit over $800k, before they have to lean on the emergency exemption that allows you to go over the limit, but limits you to emergency recalling guys with a cap hit under $800k.

It was about as likely as Abdelkader hitting 15 goals or Jimmy Howard winning the Vezina this season, but obviously now they don't have to worry about it at all.

The team can go 7.5% over the cap in potential 'performance bonuses' during the regular season. It is considered a cushion because there is no guarantee the bonus conditions will be met. If the performance bonuses take the team over the cap over the entire season, a penalty is applied to the next season.

That is the same trick Holland used with Alfredsson making the contract bonus heavy for playing a handful of games. IIRC, Wings got stuck with the overture penalty the following season due to Alfredsson's bonus.

Absolutely.

What I was saying is that by likely not needing to tap into the LTIR relief for most of this season, they'll end up accruing additional cap that can only help insure that any bonuses met don't carry over into next year. I'm certainly not insinuating that they need to worry about bonuses hitting next years cap, but a penny saved is a penny earned...

 

[ridilon]

It looks like Yzerman got the perfect storm with injuries to get as close to the limit as possible. Franzen, Zetterberg, AA, Ericsson, Daley and Nielsen on regular IR, and then recalling Svechnikov, Biega, Kuffner and Kaski (at whatever their prorated hits were after spending a few days of the NHL season demoted/with another team) got them to just $25.5k under the $81.5M limit. If needed, they can now go $10,037,878 over their ACSL of $81,474,570 for the rest of the year. If they get under the ACSL (which they did when Kaski and Kuffner went back down, and will further once a couple other players go down), they will gain cap space for the rest of the season.

Is this why Svech is up with the big club? Just to be an extra forward that helped maximize cap space?

 

[ShelbyZ]

Is this why Svech is up with the big club? Just to be an extra forward that helped maximize cap space?

Yes and no? I'm guessing that in addition to being able to get max LTIR relief, they also wanted to recall a forward since they were down to 11 healthy with Nielsen on IR and AA questionable for Tuesday's game at the time. Now they're probably keeping him up so they have a spare forward for their trip to Montreal tonight.

If he doesn't dress tonight, I'd be surprised if he doesn't go back down in time for the Griffins game tomorrow night.

 

[GrGriffins]

If he doesn't dress tonight, I'd be surprised if he doesn't go back down in time for the Griffins game tomorrow night.

Just happened.

2019-10-15 Evgeny Svechnikov (RW) Grand Rapids ADD Returned on loan from Detroit (NHL) [TBODY] [/TBODY] [TBODY] [/TBODY] [TBODY] [/TBODY] [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Snuggs]

True, but Green has been reluctant to move.


Consider that at the 2018 deadline his approved trade list contained a whopping 2 teams (per the Athletic).
Last year it was rumoured he rejected a trade to Toronto. Think the source was someone at Rogers Sportsnet.

Hell, even Vanek and Kronwall rejected trades last season. Vanek rejected a trade to Boston at the deadline for a late round pick. Kronwall mentioned during Red White authority podcast that Holland had offers for him and allowed Kronner to make decision wether he stays or does.

Yeah well Vanek is a loser and Kronwall spent a career with 1 team he loved...

I went on a rant about Vanek and how I can't understand playing sports not at a professional level but still in highschool/college how he didn't wanna move for 3-4 months somewhere else to have a chance at a Stanley cup this late in his career.

It just screamed as a guy who was more about the pay, comfort, and staying healthy for a new contract.

 

[TheClap]

Yeah well Vanek is a loser and Kronwall spent a career with 1 team he loved...

I went on a rant about Vanek and how I can't understand playing sports not at a professional level but still in highschool/college how he didn't wanna move for 3-4 months somewhere else to have a chance at a Stanley cup this late in his career.

It just screamed as a guy who was more about the pay, comfort, and staying healthy for a new contract.

Maybe he just didn't want to play with Brad Marchand? He licks opponents on the ice, imagine what he does to his own teammates in the locker-room.

 

[Konnan511]

Maybe he just didn't want to play with Brad Marchand? He licks opponents on the ice, imagine what he does to his own teammates in the locker-room.

Go on....

 

[Winger98]

Yeah well Vanek is a loser and Kronwall spent a career with 1 team he loved...

I went on a rant about Vanek and how I can't understand playing sports not at a professional level but still in highschool/college how he didn't wanna move for 3-4 months somewhere else to have a chance at a Stanley cup this late in his career.

It just screamed as a guy who was more about the pay, comfort, and staying healthy for a new contract.

Priorities change as you get older. Guy has four kids now, I totally get not wanting to pick up and move to a whole new place for a few months if it means either being away from them or uprooting the whole family to live out of a suitcase.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Maybe he just didn't want to play with Brad Marchand? He licks opponents on the ice, imagine what he does to his own teammates in the locker-room.

User name check out...

 

[MBH]

Yeah well Vanek is a loser and Kronwall spent a career with 1 team he loved...

I went on a rant about Vanek and how I can't understand playing sports not at a professional level but still in highschool/college how he didn't wanna move for 3-4 months somewhere else to have a chance at a Stanley cup this late in his career.

It just screamed as a guy who was more about the pay, comfort, and staying healthy for a new contract.

Vanek has moved a hell of a lot of times in his career. Players take less money to negotiate clauses. Why wouldn't they use them? They paid for them.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

With a 3-3 start, all this Vanek talk & the season ahead, this thread needs...


Mantha about to do the rarely seen double barehanded face-wash on Blash. His sticky glove stuck to Blash's head after a series of noogies. Degree of difficulty 10/10.

 

[MBH]

Maybe to you. He hasn't looked very good to me, and he's looked definitively worse than Abby in all 3 games imo.

Abby could have a solid 20 game stretch and people would ***** about him every day, it would be like DDK last year. Not that I'm a fan, but Abdelkader has looked completely fine in his role this year.

LOL.
Who cares who's looked better.
As a unit, they've been good.
They're way overpaid, but at least they're contributing something for once.

 

[Ezekial]

LOL.
Who cares who's looked better.
As a unit, they've been good.
They're way overpaid, but at least they're contributing something for once.

That post was after 3 games. I'll be the first to admit that helm picked up his game since and DLR and Abby are still grinding. That line has been nothing short of solid.

 

[Kyleftlx]

Imagine being unhappy that your team couldn’t acquire Tyler Motte for Thomas Vanek at the deadline.

 

[saska sault]

I know it's been beaten to death but I can't believe Abdelkader has three years left after this one...

I'd imagine after next year he's bought out or LTIR, that seems to be when the competitive window is opening (hopefully) according to management if you read between the lines. Next year hopefully is his old boys club victory lap.

 

[Konnan511]

I'd imagine after next year he's bought out or LTIR, that seems to be when the competitive window is opening (hopefully) according to management if you read between the lines. Next year hopefully is his old boys club victory lap.

You can't just LTIR him, he needs to have an injury. Being bad at hockey isn't an injury unfortunately.