A proposal to improve USports men's hockey

[FreddyFoyle]

OK, first and foremost, this proposed change would only work if another Quebec school adds men's hockey.

So here's the plan:

• Convince another Quebec school to add men's hockey (e.g. Université de Montrèal, Laval, Sherbrooke, Bishops)
• That would make four Quebec schools.
• Convince uOttawa and Carleton to transfer to RESQ for men's hockey.
• Now RESQ is revitalized as a conference with six teams, and a guaranteed berth at UCup.
• OUA drops back to only one guaranteed berth at UCup.
• Now you can go back to a true Final 4 format at UCup with four conference champs.

Next, follow the NCAA example and add out of conference play to enrich hockey schedules:

• For example, AUS drops back to 24 games (play each other 4 times) for conference play, standings, playoffs, etc.
• AUS then adds 4 (28 game total) to 8 (32 game total) out-of-conference games for each team.
• Like the NCAA, out-of-conference games wouldn't count for standings, but would count for rankings, etc.
• Out-of-conference games based on reciprocity - home and home series (2 or 4 games) spanning up to 2 seasons.
• To make travel/study more manageable, arrange long-travel games early in Fall and/or the first weekend in January.
• This gets us to more of the "Super League" Bob Stauffer used to advocate for. Those who want to travel cross-country for opponents can; those who don't want to don't have to.
• The new RESQ would have 20 conference games (play each other 4 times), and the balance of the sked could be to AUS teams (all bus-able) and OUA teams, or even Canada West.
• OUA and CanWest can keep doing their own thing and treat out-of-conference games as exhibition on their end, or they could modify their conferences as well.

Back to the University Cup:

• The 8-team format is not working. It is difficult to manage for the hosts (who has 8 dressing rooms in their rinks?) and expensive. No wonder few schools bid to host anymore.
• The old 4-team format was exciting (one game a day to hype, must-win to advance to final), like the NCAA Frozen Four, but meant there was no host team (which I guess was why they were always in Toronto?)
• I believe the CIAU went to a final-6 format to include a host (in order to move the game around the country), plus a wildcard to round it out (you can't easily have a 5-team tournament).
• I was totally fine with that format; the only people that hated it were TV (and CIAU/USports bureaucrats), and face it, Sports TV is not that interested in the UCup.
• Still, I think it is worth the risk to go back to a Final-4 format (AUS, CanWest, RESQ, and OUA champs) without host berths. I believe there are certain markets (Halifax, Fredericton, Moncton, Charlottetown?, Saskatoon?, Thunder Bay?, Winnipeg?) who appreciate the level of the hockey, and the "event-ness" of the University Cup enough where fans will buy tickets and still show up even if their local team isn't involved. This would obviously involve some serious marketing to create buzz, and AFFORDABLE tickets (have you seen what they want for World Juniors in Alberta next year?)

Enough for now. I don't want people to stop reading. Ideas? Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[MiamiHockey]

OK, first and foremost, this proposed change would only work if another Quebec school adds men's hockey.

So here's the plan:

• Convince another Quebec school to add men's hockey (e.g. Université de Montrèal, Laval, Sherbrooke, Bishops)
• That would make four Quebec schools.

Sorry, but the plan ends here.

Which Quebec school would have any interest in adding men's hockey? A few have ventured into football in recent years, but there has been zero appetite for hockey. It's expensive, and with the QMJHL or AHL in every meaningful Quebec university market (Sherbrooke, Quebec City, Montreal, Chicoutimi: see Université du Québec - Wikipedia) , there will not be enough ticket sales to make a new program financially viable.

• Still, I think it is worth the risk to go back to a Final-4 format (AUS, CanWest, RESQ, and OUA champs) without host berths. I believe there are certain markets (Halifax, Fredericton, Moncton, Charlottetown?, Saskatoon?, Thunder Bay?, Winnipeg?) who appreciate the level of the hockey, and the "event-ness" of the University Cup enough where fans will buy tickets and still show up even if their local team isn't involved. This would obviously involve some serious marketing to create buzz, and AFFORDABLE tickets (have you seen what they want for World Juniors in Alberta next year?)

Zero appetite for this in Winnipeg. The Jets, Moose, and WHL ICE are all now competing for the same dollar in a poor city with no interest in USports. The ICE are battling for First in the WHL East and still play to a half-empty barn in their inaugural season.

I agree that the 8-team format is untenable (as illustrated by the complete lack of bidding), but even the 6-team or 4-team format would only work in a few cities (Edmonton, Saskatoon, Thunder Bay, Frederiction, Moncton, Halifax).

A better option, in my opinion, would be to have Best-of-3 Semi-Finals, and a Best-of-3 Final ... with each series hosted at one of the universities in the series.

You do AUS vs OUA East as one semi-final, and CW vs OUA West as the other (host conference pre-determined by a rotation). You'll get 2 home gates in each series to pay the travel bills.

Then, the winners face off with the host of the Final pre-determined by a rotation.

Sportsnet can figure out how to broadcast OHL / QMJHL / WHL playoff games on short notice, so they should have the capacity to use a remote crew for USports on short notice. If they want to, that is. I don't see national broadcast rights as a meaningful source of publicity for USports, and certainly not worth the money they've been paying.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

A better option, in my opinion, would be to have Best-of-3 Semi-Finals, and a Best-of-3 Final ... with each series hosted at one of the universities in the series.

You do AUS vs OUA East as one semi-final, and CW vs OUA West as the other (host conference pre-determined by a rotation). You'll get 2 home gates in each series to pay the travel bills.

Then, the winners face off with the host of the Final pre-determined by a rotation.

I don’t think there is any perfect format, but this is the one that is most intriguing to me.

You would have meaningful conference championships so you should see big crowds for all those games...and then again for the National semi-finals/finals since they would be hosted by one of the schools participating. Honestly, I think creating that kind of atmosphere (even though it might be in smaller buildings) would look better for TV than having games played in a 3/4 empty CHL arena.

I would like to see the semi-final matchups rotated over the years, but the AUS/OUA E and CW/OUA W matchups obviously make the most sense from a travel POV.

I don’t think it would necessarily be a bad thing for U Sports to think outside the box with this. They don’t need to try to replicate the NCAA as that will be a losing proposition. Why not even try something different for a couple years and see how it goes? It’s not like they can’t switch back if they find it’s not working.

 

[Lakeheadfan95]

On a side note laurentian and nipissing should be in the oua west and pick 2 of the toronto teams to go to the east geographically sudbury and north bay are the closest cities to thunder bay

 

[Hollywood3]

This again!

First, just about a year ago there was an announcement that the Molson family donated $1 million for hockey at UQAM. That's decent.
Google Translate
Google Translate

Second, this link has the history of the U-Cup, including a chart with format notes. List of University Cup Playoffs

There are few new things in this world. Pretty much everything has been tried. Here's a summary:

4 teams single knockout:
1963, 1954, 1965, 1972, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997

5 teams single knockout:
1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971

5 teams, best-of-three quarter-final, two best-of-three semi-finals, and sudden death final:
1973, 1974,

5 teams, best-of-three quarter-final, two best-of-three semi-finals, and best-of-three final:
1975

10 teams, 8 played in one of two regionals, final 4 had two regional winners and two teams with byes:
1976 (this was likely very drug-influenced)

6 teams, best-of-three quarter-finals, two-game total point semi-finals, sudden death final:
1977, 1984, 1985

6 teams, two round-robin pools, sudden death final:
1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1987, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014

7 teams, best-of-three quarter-finals, single knockout final 4:
1986

8 teams, single knockout:
2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019

I do not believe that there will be changes because:
- every other winter sport (including women's hockey) has this format;
- it gives two semi-finals on Saturday and a bronze and gold game on Sunday;
- the other systems have not proven to be the panacea that the CIAU/CIS wished for in the past.

Here are the knockout draws available for comparison purposes:

The 5-team system was utilized when there were 5 conferences and no host berth:

This 6-team knockout format addresses the 3-way tie problem:

This 8-team modification allows all losing teams to chase a bronze but would require a secondary arena:

 

[MiamiHockey]

On a side note laurentian and nipissing should be in the oua west and pick 2 of the toronto teams to go to the east geographically sudbury and north bay are the closest cities to thunder bay

No.
Everybody has to fly to Thunder Bay, so driving distance is immaterial. Proximity to an airport with connections to Thunder Bay is more important, and all of the Toronto-area schools are but a short drive to Pearson. In fact, all of the OUA West schools are closer to Pearson than either Laurentian or Nipissing.
The OUA West is focused on the Windsor-Guelph corridor, not Thunder Bay.

 

[MiamiHockey]

First, just about a year ago there was an announcement that the Molson family donated $1 million for hockey at UQAM. That's decent.
Google Translate
Google Translate

This is very newsworthy, but I suspect that the required donation far exceeds $1 million.

You're looking at needing dressing room, funding scholarships, and funding a full-time Head Coach (and money for support staff, equipment, etc.)

NCAA Div 1 programs require endowments north of $50 million just to get started. The number will be lower in Canada, but I'd ballpark an upfront cost of $1 million plus an endowment north of $5 million to properly fund a men's hockey program.

Second, this link has the history of the U-Cup, including a chart with format notes. List of University Cup Playoffs

There are few new things in this world. Pretty much everything has been tried.

They have not tried what I have proposed.

 

[Drummer]

I'm with UNB Bruins Fan - I'd like a best of 3 or 5 conference final, best of 3 Semi (rotation) and best of 3 Final (rotational).

Last season would have been.

Round 1
West - Alberta vs USask (@ Alberta)
OUAW - Western vs Guelph (@ Western)
OUAE - Carleton vs Queen's (@ Carleton)
AUS - UNB vs StFX (@ UNB)

Rounds 2
West - Alberta vs Guelph (@ Alberta or Guelph depending on Rotation)
East - UNB vs Queen's (@ UNB or Queen's depending on Rotation)

Round 3
Finals - Alberta vs UNB (@ Alberta or UNB depending on Rotation)

An Alberta-UNB three(3) game series would be awesome (but I'm bias).

They move 50 guys for the Football Semi's and Finals.

E.

 

[MiamiHockey]

I'm with UNB Bruins Fan - I'd like a best of 3 or 5 conference final, best of 3 Semi (rotation) and best of 3 Final (rotational).

Rounds 2
West - Alberta vs Guelph (@ Alberta or Guelph depending on Rotation)
East - UNB vs Queen's (@ UNB or Queen's depending on Rotation)

Round 3
Finals - Alberta vs UNB (@ Alberta or UNB depending on Rotation)

An Alberta-UNB three(3) game series would be awesome (but I'm bias).

They move 50 guys for the Football Semi's and Finals.

E.

This would be infinitely better than playing in front of friends and family at Lethbridge. The crowds would be electric for each of those series, and it would be great for OUA Hockey to have really meaningful games against CW/AUS foes in Ontario for a change.

 

[Hollywood3]

...


They have not tried what I have proposed.

1973 and 1974 did it with a sudden-death final game and 1975 almost was bang-on, except that 5 teams instead of 4 were involved.

1975 University Cup

The WCIAA had been split into the CW and GPAC, so Alberta played Brandon in a quarter-final (winning 10-0 and 8-4). Then they beat Loyola 2-0 and 4-3 in a semi-final. Meanwhile, Toronto beat SMU 2-4, 2-1, 6-3 in the other semi-final. Toronto then flew out to Edmontown where the Monkeys beat them 5-0, 2-3, 5-2 in the final.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Personally, I don't have an issue with the 6 team format. it's the 8 team format that makes little sense.
8 team format:
Home team guaranteed only 1 home gate
The cost of providing meals and hotels for 8 teams versus 6, which is covered by the host committee.
If you don't get people in the seats, the cost is more of an issue. Another reason why hosting is a gamble in unproven sites.
Teams have also been staying for the duration of the tournament, which adds to the cost.
Dressing rooms-8 needed, instead of 6.
The guarantee of 2 games, eliminates a one and done deal, which we all knew would happen in Lethbridge.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

I didn’t really mind the 6-team format either. It seemed more often than not you would get a defacto semi-final on Saturday with both teams at 1-0.

Give each conference/division winner a berth + host + wild card from conference that won previous seasons UCup.

 

[Drummer]

The cost of providing meals and hotels for 8 teams versus 6, which is covered by the host committee.

Participants, not the Host, are responsible for Hotels, Food and Travel. The host can outline an incentive in their bid that teams will not pay more than 'x', but they are under no obligation to cover rooms.

The host books the rooms, but the schools pay the bill. Hosts can get premium pricing on the Team's behalf, but the team still pays the bill.

Also, each member of the team (up to 20) can be charged for attending the following (these are the maximums prices allowed and can be 25% higher for every attendee after # 20);
a. $70.00 per banquet ticket
b. $40.00 for a luncheon
c. $35.00 for a breakfast/brunch
d. $35.00 for a reception

 

[Dingle]

For as long as I can remember, university sports in Canada have not flourished. I live in Ottawa, the Ravens Basketball, a dynasty and tickets are no issue.

Hockey needs community reach. A means by which you can get non students to go. Match the Q, the O or the W. Early on Shawn Van Allen was all over the local radio, now: nothing. Marty Johnson before him, made every effort to be on TSN1200.

Get your AD, or coach to start nosing up to local media. Get on the TSN family of radio stations. And other all sports stations. Get on local TV. Invite local radio to broadcast one segment from the arena as you practice. Talk to managers at Radio stations all over the community you are in (sports or otherwise), to get mentioned during their broadcasts.

Get word out to the community and it will increase interest...Way too much U sports occurs in the dark. university Athletic faculties need a full time Media relations person. If they are in place now, I barely notice them in Ottawa.

Hit up alumni, get your Athletic department to work with your administration to get mailing lists and connect with them. Invite them to games, to home coming, etc.

Increase attendance by 500 - 1000 people a game and money starts becoming less an issue. Now a final 4 or final 8 becomes easier to finance. That 10-15 K a game, at 15 home games..200 K extra revenue.